Need help choosing options for 24" iMac

godfrey · January 21, 2009

The iMac 24" has two RAM slots. The standard 2G configuration puts a 1G RAM module into each slot, a 2x1G configuration. When you upgrade to 4G, you buy two 2G RAM modules and replace the 1G modules, a 2x2G configuration.

At some point in the past with PowerPC-based Apple machines, I was able to order 2-slot machines with 1G total RAM as a factory configuration using a 1G RAM module. I then expanded RAM by filling the empty slot.

However, the way the memory controller in the Intel-based Apple machines works, both slots must be populated. That's why they only offer the 2x1G configuration for a 2G total RAM system. Since the cost of the 2x1G configuration is less or on par with the cost of a 1x2G configuration, they save some money on the memory controller this way, which ends up saving the customer some money.

Godfrey

CharlesBecker-Toronto · January 21, 2009

thanks Patrick-and that's what I think is unfortunate; you should be able to get a single 2GB module instead of 2x2 even if you have to pay a little more to get it as 2GB modules are available. As I said before, I would have expected better from Apple. Oh well...such is life. cb :-)

CharlesBecker-Toronto · January 21, 2009

"the way the memory controller in the Intel-based Apple machines works, both slots must be populated. " aha-now I understand. Thanks for clarifying that Godfrey! cb

Uhooru · January 21, 2009

Buying the OWC excellent ram, you will have to replace the ram that came w/the imac. The cost will be far less then haveing upgrade to 4GB, substantially. 500 HD is good, because, you can have all the programs and then some you ever need and have plenty of space left over. It makes the drive work better. I use FW drives to store all my photos, I have 5 of them all hooked up firewire. I prefer the wireless mouse and Keyboard, because it reduces the wires some, and I use the other USB 2.0 ports for a couple of different scanners and printer. Though you can always get a USB powered hub if you need more ports. The wireless does require batteries and they go through them, especially the mouse, but it's not bad. Little less clutter after having 5 drives, 3 scanners, a pen, alternately dock for iPod/iPhone etc. is good. Personally, I like MS office, Education pack. because we use office at work. Save you word docs in compatability mode so it saves as a .doc and not a .docx. good to go. I believe, portions of the iLife suite are included anyways? But I've never used iWork before and Brad has a good point about keynote as his photo essays I guarantee are proof in the pudding. Lastly, concure with those who suggest waiting for the model refresh. It will be the same price as now or less and often upgrades video cards and cpu's.

Lastly, when i switched over for my personal comupting, I found the transition easy, and haven't looked back.

mt4x4 · January 21, 2009

I don't own a Mac, but I can vouch for their compatability. When attending university, I had a business class where we worked with graphic designers. The design department requires students to purchase a Mac laptop thier second year. I can say that the compatability was great. I could hand anyone of the designers a PC formatted USB flash card with files on it, and they could open them. However, the other way around...PC is not so great for compatibility. If I were working as a photographer or designer, I would definitely have reason to get a Mac. All the people I know who currently own Macs never have a problem with them, whereas it seems I am formatting at least once every three months.

Carl Stone · January 21, 2009

Charles, you are missing the point. Apple DOES NOT offer a single 2GB RAM module for the iMac, and I explained why. What may, or may not, be a "better idea' to anyone else, has no bearing on what Apple offers. You cannot order an iMac with a single 2GB RAM module, so it's a waste of time talking about it.

gulfbeach47 · January 21, 2009

Part 1- Why does this site keep rejecting my posts? Gonna try splitting it in half, since maybe it is size related?

Hi Gang, don't you know that eveyone was supposed to give the same answer and make it easy for me? LOL Note> I am not a computer whiz, so reply in terms that a rookie would understand:) I forgot to mention that I was also going to get a 13" Macbook, so I can present photos to customers and also have a back-up computer in case of problems on the main machine. Many of my customers are tourists on vacation and some don't have laptops with them. It woud be nice to have mobile option if covering a news event/sending pix from other location. Also, after talking to Apple if I have problems with iMac the techs fix by phone or come to home. Laptops are fixed by phone or sent in for repairs which could take days if not a week or so? I will make answers to different post but anyone feel free to contribute. Brad/Godfrey-How does bumping hard drive to 750 GB help? Just wanting to know what each option does. Perhaps the wireless keyboard is not needed. Then again, I have only used a laptop a couple of times and the keyboard seems awkward. I have a friend that bought a keyboard for the same reason. My current mouse with wire drives me crazy, so this sounds like a good option. Also I am thinking hey! finally a place to use partial drained flash batteries? I don't see a mouse of any type listed for the laptop, just a keyboard? A wireless mouse will work correct? They did not have a mouse out with display at Best Buy and even the salesperson was having issues scrolling with the built in pad.

I also curious if anyone uses a different mouse then the apple version? I used it at college while taking some photo classes using the Macpros and the little wheel kind of bugs me.

I see some suggest holding off on memory and upgrading with 3rd party memory. I am surprised that Apple lets their machines work as well with 3rd party software. John

gulfbeach47 · January 21, 2009

PART 2- Maybe it was size of my post. After I split in half it sent part 1. It is rejecting still. Gonna try 3 parts. Geesh!

Regarding iWork- I am debating this because I am so used to Windows and not sure how much time it takes to get used to exporting files to correct format. A salesperson at Best Buy showed me with the new iwork 09 you have templates that you can drag photos to and make ads for your business. This is a great feature for me and the salesperson claimed that Windows does not have yet. I really like that you can drag a photo and put in template and resize it by just draggin the corners. Also, the watermark feature is nice but I imagine CS4 has something similar? There are probably many other features that I don't have a clue about yet. Would like feedback about this template feature in iWork. Does Window or other software offer this template option? Also, does iWork offer a Spreadsheet type option that I can add up my business milage or expenses?

G Dan Mitchell-"Middle processor speed is fine. Apple often offers three, and the difference between the middle and fastest in actual performance is trivial and not worth the extra cost." Confused, I only see 2 speeds 2.8GHz/3.06GHz or am I looking at wrong option? I don't know if I can opt for $300.00 more for the largest internal hard drive. I rarely shoot raw. Majority of my pix are around 6mb before photoshop. I will skip Time Machine for now, since I have Smugmug already with unlimited storage. Let me know if there is a reason to have Time Machine also. You can upgrade video card but others suggest that the standard is fine as you did also. I am getting CS4 and Lightroom through college program at big discount. Garrison, I think I mentioned on my other thread about the program I am in wants me to choose a system last now or rather last week, but I held them off while I was deciding on PC or Mac. Good news for yall is as soon as I choose my system, the new ones will be released:)

gulfbeach47 · January 21, 2009

Why do I get the following message? I have 1 more paragraph (part3) and it will not accept it. Is it because I tried to copypaste?

<h2>Problem with Your Input</h2>

We had a problem processing your entry:

<ul>

<li>One ! is enough (if not too many) </li>

</ul>

Please back up using your browser, correct it, and resubmit your entry.

godfrey · January 21, 2009

> Also, after talking to Apple if I have problems with iMac the > techs fix by phone or come to home. > ... > Laptops are fixed by phone or sent in for repairs which could > take days if not a week or so? I will make answers to different > post but anyone feel free to contribute. Depends upon the specific service plan you subscribe to. When I need hardware assistance, I usually just carry the machine to the Apple Store if needed. > How does bumping hard drive to 750 GB help? Just wanting to know > what each option does. For the iMac, it is just a way to maximize storage without having to pay later to have the drive upgraded. iMacs are somewhat of a pain to work on since they are all-in-one units. If you're using a laptop at your desk most of the time, a wireless mouse and keyboard, and a large monitor, makes for a nicer working environment, for sure. All Apple systems have bluetooth in them and can work with wireless mouse and keyboard. I prefer the Apple mouse and keyboard, but others like third party ones. Makes no difference. > Regarding iWork- I am debating this because I am so used to > Windows and not sure how much time it takes to get used to > exporting files to correct format. I only export files to Word format when I need to send them to someone who needs a Word document. Only takes a second. > Would like feedback about this template feature in iWork. > Also, does iWork offer a Spreadsheet type option that I can add > up my business milage or expenses? Haven't used the latest yet, but I have a dozen or two templates for my business stationary, letters, etc etc that all work great. iWork comes with Numbers which does everything I need. It's not an Excel replacement, however. > I will skip Time Machine for now, since I have Smugmug already > with unlimited storage. Time Machine keeps a backup of *your entire computer*. Without a backup, you can be in serious trouble if something nasty happens. I STRONGLY recommend using it. The software is an embedded part of Mac OS X Leopard ... all you need is the extra hard drive. Just do it. Godfrey

CharlesBecker-Toronto · January 21, 2009

Carl-I don't know why you just repeated your previous post in order to reply to me but, in any event, Apple most certainly does offer 2GB modules of RAM-they offer 1GB,2GB, and 4GB modules. As per Godfrey's post, the intel iMacs need both memory slots filled which is why one cannot get just a single 2GB module put in a new iMac. Your comment that Apple does not offer a single 2GB module is incorrect (unless you meant to say that they don't offer single 2GB modules on brand new iMacs but that is not what you have said is it). cb

CharlesBecker-Toronto · January 21, 2009

By the way Carl, your comment earlier that a single 2GB module of Apple brand RAM was more expensive than 2-1GB modules is incorrect; a single 2GB module is $150 while a single 1GB module is $75 (ie 2x1GB modules cost 2x$75=$150). cb

Carl Stone · January 21, 2009

I'm not at all sure how that got re-posted, but I didn't do it.

You are mistaken about the RAM available from Apple for the iMac. Patrick explained it further, but you either didn't read his post, or you chose to ignore it. The iMac gets it's max performance from MATCHED RAM MODULES, and 2-1GB modules are cheaper than 1-2GB module. The only way for you to get ANY 2GB modules for the iMac from Apple is for you to order it with 4GB of RAM. You CANNOT buy a new iMac from Apple with 1-2GB module. Below is the page from the Apple iMac configuration website that will verify that.

http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB325LL/A?mco=NzMyNjM0

CharlesBecker-Toronto · January 21, 2009

Hi Carl-ok-understand about the "repost". Check out the link to Apple and the 1,2,and 4 GB modules. You are looking at configurations available for new iMacs and I am looking at what Apple sells from their store. It comes back to having to fill both slots so for a new computer, you need 1x2 GB's and not 2x1 GB's but, as you can now see, you can buy a single 2GB. You had originally said that you cannot buy a single 2GB module-that was incorrect. You are now saying that you cannot buy a single 2GB module for a new iMac which is different but correct. We're finally in agreement! cb :-)

http://store.apple.com/us/memorymodel/ME_IMAC_AL_24_G2

Carl Stone · January 21, 2009

"By the way Carl, your comment earlier that a single 2GB module of Apple brand

RAM was more expensive than 2-1GB modules is incorrect; a single 2GB module is $150 while a single 1GB module is $75 (ie 2x1GB modules cost 2x$75=$150). cb

Charles, I don't know where you buy your RAM, but you can get 4 GB (2-2GB PC2-6400 DDR2-800) lifetime warranty for under $50, but, not from Apple. You are now quoting the price that Apple charges for the memory, not what Apple pays for it. If you want to pay those ridiculous RAM prices, go for it, many will not.

The ONLY advantage to buying memory from Apple is that they will warranty it. Big deal, so will many third party vendors. The difference is that if you have occasion to take your Mac in for service, and there is a RAM problem, and the RAM is not from Apple, the service will stop at that point, until you replace the bad RAM. Some , but not all third party vendors will replace bad RAM even before you ship back the bad modules. One such vendor is:

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/_apple_info/Apple_Aluminum_Intel_Core_2_Duo_iMac_24_2.8GHz_Memory_1506.asp

CharlesBecker-Toronto · January 21, 2009

Carl-no disagreement about getting memory cheaper than from Apple and if/when I upgrade it will most likely not be from them but I was addressing your comment that "However, 2GB modules are more expensive than 2-1 GB modules, which would cost Apple more money. Why would Apple throw money away" was incorrect. A 2GB module from Apple does not cost more than 2-1GB modules.; they both work out to the same amount. That's all. cb

kristian_dale · January 21, 2009

Hi, John!

I have not read all the post in this tread, but I just wanted to let you know that the iMac 24" is a great choice! I went from this one after using PCs for many years without ant problems. I the iMac at home, though we have PCs at school. I really cant describe how much more I like to work on the Mac. It is really amazing compared to work on a PC. The Screen is also amazing, but keep in mind that you will need to be able to control the light to minimize the reflections. I managed to do this and I LOVE the screen.

I would also recommend you to get another mouse asap. I recently bought a new one because I really dont like the feel of the mighty mouse. for me it is way to flat, and does not feel right in my hands. I bought the Logitec MX 620 mouse a few weeks ago and its great!

by the way! I have the plain iMac 24" without any upgrades. It a pleasure to use for photography work. 2 gig RAM is working great with PS CS3 running together with a lot of other programs, though I will probably upgrade to 4 gig RAM soon to speed things up.

In my opinion there is no cons on moving to mac. the transision was very smooth;)

Kristian

tuyen_tran · January 21, 2009

Macs are great; once you switch you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. If you're concerned about cost, consider buying used. I picked up 24" White iMac (2.16ghz processor) over the holidays for less than half the price ($850 shipped) of an entry-level new 24". Granted, it's not as fast, and it can only hold 3GB memory max, but with a 500GB HD and a faster Nvidia 7600GT graphics card, it's plenty fast enough. You have to know your Macs though -- for instance, most 24" White iMac of the generation I got shipped with a 250GB HD, and the standard 7300GT graphics card, which not in the same class as the 7600GT.

kelly_flanigan1 · January 21, 2009

Take this as a reference; the RAM ALONE in this ancient photoshop dream machine cost more than than the entire computer itself; more than your Imac 24" in dollars; probably 1.5 times to twice as much if one considers inflation. The computer and ram and trick video card; super high 3800 rpm 850 meg drive ; trick ide controller was about 5800 bucks. The balls to the wall obscene custome box cost 10 times what full bore photoshop cost.

What ever box you buy; even it its the boss hog killer computer of the moment; it will become birdcage liner in many years; laughed at. Others called out BOSS HOG Pentium obscene when we moved to 16 megs from 4; ie "you never need that much ram". Today an obscene box might be 100 times more ram ' ie 16 gigs for a total pro with 64 bits; and 4 gigs for normal folks.

One place I worked for paid 10 grand for a beta 486 computer; our old IBM 286 for payroll was 5800 bucks; when a new Camaro was 9000.

The ONLY THING CONSTANT in the computer industry is change; a 2 to 4 grand boss hog box today might be 350 bucks at Walmart in a few years; and the HDA will be 4X larger.

chris_dahler · January 21, 2009

I have a 24"iMac 2.8 with 2G RAM and a 500GB HD. Fantastic computer. I've had it for a year and it still seems blazingly fast even with just the 2G RAM. Saving money options: go with just 2G RAM and upgrade later after you think you need it. I've never hit a situation where I thought I needed it, even with several Photoshop docs open along with Aperture, Safari, Mail, and iTunes all running at once. Immediately upon ordering it, I would then head straight over to OWC and get <a href="http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MEFW934AL2/">a dual hard drive FW800 external enclosure</a> along with a couple of big hard drives (you can get a 1TB drive these days for only about $120, and 750GB drives go for less than $100).

kelly_flanigan1 · January 21, 2009

Here is another dream machine that cost about 2600 bucks; about 6200 bucks with the upgrades of two server CPU's and the ram bumped up to 512 megs. This was in an era when most folks used say 16 to 32 megs. One pays a HUGE COST with being on the front line; within a year one can buy the same stuff at a tiny fraction. Here with printing time is money; so having a boss hog matters. Later on they get moved down the food chain. Be carefull about chasing the latest; one pays dearly. This box is still in use; the motherboard is made in the UK in 1996; the Pentium II 333Hz server CPUs are from about 1998 ; its a dual CPU box

To open up the 103 meg file took a long 12.1 seconds; this is because the motherboard has a slow Busmaster contoller; its from 1996; with a modern box its just a second or two. With an "obsolete" 2.8Ghz box bought off of ebay two years ago for 150 bucks its 0.8 seconds; It came with a 80gig hda and a full Xp pro license; its one of my FTP boxes that has photohop on it; .

Here it it with a 103 meg file

To rotate an image 90 degrees takes 6 seconds with the dual 333Mhz 1998 box that cost 6200 bucks;

it took 0.5 seconds on the 150 buck FTP box that has a 2.8Ghz cpu.

The rotation in both cases is all in ram; the old boss hog has 512 megs; this elcheapo ftp box has 2 gigs.

using curves took 7.3 seconds on the dual 333Mhz server; and 0.8 seconds on the 2.8 Ghz Prescot FTP box

If one works on big files all the time all these seconds add up.

kelly_flanigan1 · January 21, 2009

The same test was run on the HP Pavillion Slimline S3700F that cost 349 bucks at Office Depot 2 weeks ago. It has Vista Premium Home; a Athlon X2 5000 dual core 5000 cpu; 3 gigs of ram; 320 gig hda; dual layer dvd burner; nic card; dialup modem; wifi antenna; etc. With CS2 one only sees 2 gigs of ram; the slider is at 70 percent.

Time to open a 103 meg file; 0.6 seconds

Time to rotate 90 degrees; 0.5 seconds

Time if curves used; 0.5 seconds

It beats the FTP box I built two years ago; built out of old stuff

garrison_k. · January 21, 2009

geez, how the heck do you remeber all this stuff, Kelly. I can't even remember what year I bought my first meg of ram. I remember it cost $100 though.

kelly_flanigan1 · January 21, 2009

OK lets choke the boxes with a giant file

The 1998 boss hog takes 307 seconds to open a 987 MEG file; THE 150 BUCK ftp BOX took 52 seconds; the 2 week old Vista HP mini tower took 23 seconds. The oldest from 1996 has slow poke Busmaster IDE; the FTP has a 133 class IDE; the HP mini tower with vista has a SATA HDA interface;the quickest. The HDA's on all three are modern 7200 rpm drives; the old guy is just opening up the file with a soda straw.

<img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/PSCS2%20978MB%20333dual/rot525sec.jpg?t=1232590872" alt="" width="498" height="600" /> _

i

Rotation of the 978 megs file took 525 seconds on the old 1996/1998 6200 buck boss hog; it only has 3 grand worth of ram; ie 512 megs. During the rotation one take a 9 minute coffee break; its puking into the hda thru the slow poke old ide busmaster interface to the hda. Its like rotating a ping pong table inside a Ford Focus; its cutting off pieces and reglueing them. With the HP Pavillion S3700F it takes 151 seconds with my 150 buck FTP box it took 195 seconds; its got 2 gigs of ram; not enough for a 978 meg file. The Pavillion S3700F is long too; it has 3 gigs of ram but its only has cs2 and thus ram available with VISTA is just 1712 megs; its 1772 with windows 2000.

gulfbeach47 · January 21, 2009

Hello everyone. I see I have some feedback thank you thank you. I tried to post part 3 of my original post again. I hope someone will touch on why I get that message: Problem with your input/One is enough-if not too many. What the heck does that mean? Anyway it did not post. Seems to have something to do with if I copy a sentence from another post this system goes haywire? I will go over your replies and ask a couple more questions if you don't mind.

My 3rd post was regarding what Patrick suggested to me on my other thread "Drawbacks on the 20" iMac" I had mentioned to Patrick that besides the iMac 24" I was going to get a 13" Macbook so I could have a mobile unit for showing customers their work, a machine for in the field and and having a back up computer for my iMac 24.

Patrick suggested that I might look into the Macbook Pro along with a 24" monitor. I compared cost and the Macbook Pro/24" monitor cost around the same as if I bought both the iMac 24" and the 13" Macbook. With the iMac 24" I can get support by phone or they repair at my home. Any laptop looks like it is repair on phone or bring/send it in for repair. I did not mention that the closest Apple store is around 200 miles away. So, would it be better to have the 13 inch laptop as a back up to my iMac 24" rather then depend on just the Macbook Pro/24" monitor combo?

Kelly Flanigan I will reply to your post here since you went to all the trouble of posting all those samples. But I gotta tell you most of it went right over my head. Was your message that memory is what speeded the times up on the test you displayed?

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