gulfbeach47 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Kevin, thanks for your reply. Regarding the 20" I had read a few threads about some quality issues with the 20" compared to the 24." And if you do go back and read some of the other replies there are quite a few that say go for the 24" if possible for photo work. I would prefer to stay with the 20" but only if the screen quality was as good as the 24" Does the eye really see that much difference when looking at the 20" 1680x1050 pixels versus the 24" 1920x1200 pixels?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdean1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>"Vista is so faulty and<br /> problematic that staying away from it is a great idea...also, do not use the<br /> internet on the Windows side. IT opens it up to the virus bit"<br> This statement is so bogus, have you actually used Vista or is this just something you have heard?<br> I use Vista several hours every day without any issues, using software as old as PageMaker 6 which is years old without any problems. Have you ever heard of virus software, the only reason that Mac OS is not attacked by viruses is not because it is so safe its only because it has such a small market share that they simply is not as many viruses written for it.<br> I will admit that when Vista first hit the market there were stability issues with it but now I can honestly say that after working with my son's new MacBook, Vista is just as stable as Mac OS and looks almost as nice. Windows 7 beta which I have not heard but have read reviews about looks as nice.<br> Please talk about how nice Mac's are but tell the truth about Vista.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdean1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>The truth about operating systems security.<br> The dust has settled on PWN 2 OWN and Linux FTW! The Ubuntu-equipped Sony VAIO was the only computer to get through the tournament unscathed, managing to elude the assembled hackers. On Thursday the <a href="http://gizmodo.com/373109/who-will-get-hacked-first-vista-osx-or-linux-place-your-bets-here">MacBook Air was the first to go</a> , followed the next day by the Vista-running Fujitsu, conquered by Shane Macaulay. No one, but <em>no one</em> , however, was able to bring down the penguin.</p> <noscript></noscript> <!-- Copyright ©2002 Site Meter --> <!-- WEBBOT bot="HTMLMarkup" Endspan --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry_grim Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Go for a 24 inch monitor.</p> <p>A 20 inch widescreen monitor has less height than a standard 19" non-widescreen monitor. In order not to lose any height you would need a 22" widescreen monitor or larger.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Our older built in 2006 iMac 20" that is capped at 2 gigs of ram was bought used 2 years ago on Ebay in early 2007; it was 900 bucks; and came with 2 gigs of ram. We bought it for our retoucher; that did not know how to use a PC at all.<br> The unit was cheap because the seller was dumping the 1 year old iMac for one that would more ram. I installed Parallels and loaded up windows 2000 and older photoshop versions such as 5.5 and 7 to experiment; plus several programs not available on the mac. As mentioned before this unit model EMC no 2105 is a 2 ghz with a dual core Intel processor; hardware capped at 2 gigs of ram; 250 gig hda.<br> ****The same box today has sold for as low as 500 bucks on rare occasions; there is buy it now today at 900, 839 bucks; one auction is current at 660 bucks with 9 hours to go; buy it now at 899. These are all units that are canned at 2 gigs of ram.<br> <br /> In comparsion; our iMac 20" built in 2006 is equal to the no name tower box I built up back in 2004 that sports a 2.4 Ghz single P4 cpu; the cpu a old HP early XP box that had hardware issues with its controller; the case mobo; ram were 1/2 of the imacs price.<br> <br /> By comparasion a dinky mini tower HP box we bought 2 weeks ago at Office depot was 350 bucks with rebate; with an AMD X2; 3 gigs of ram; its about twice as fast at the Imac we have. Thus I could sell my old Imac 20" unit on ebay; and buy two box thats are twice as fast; but then that is with no monitors either.<br> <br /> The folks who buy and sell macs brains are not often wired for details. Many folks who buy the used Imacs on ebay really do not know that their imac is hard capped at 2 gigs if its an older unit.<br> <br /> Here I have many older IBM PCs that work well with no hardware issues; many are used with scanners with scanning; used units from ebay; some used as as; some rebuilt with larger hdas; some with different OS's. Its for me like buying used Nikon F2s for 50 bucks each; I buy a dozen of them. These custom built up PPros; PII; PIII; and P4s cost be a tiny fraction of what buying new or used Macs would cost. Each unit is/was built for certain tasks.<br> <br /> There is nothing wrong with NOT using a PC and just using a Mac<br> <br /> The 24" 'Imac's screen is liked by many over the 20" unit. Here running a print shop and once having a mac retoucher on staff we really didn't have any calibration issues with our calibrator deal with the 20" machines monitor; but our calibrator came with our 15K dollar printer's Fiery too; plus we print for a living. Then again I can fathom that others might have issues too; maybe their calibrator has issues with the shiney screen or something. Overall the Imac 20" unit here is an great photoshop box; the 24" unit is better.<br> <br /> Macs are more goober proof if folks surf on the internet nude; or assume stuff; or like to try installing dark/bogus/virus filled crap.<br> <br /> ****One issue never mentioned is buying an Imac or PC like a local friend/buddy has; thus one has an associate to bounce off how to do stuff; where it is; etc.<br> What matters in the long run is ones time.<br> <br /> If you going looking for a job your employer really doesnt want to hear 1/4 century old endless Mac versus PC debates; or GM versus Ford pickup debates either; or Canon versus Nikon issuse they are just tools.<br> Many folks who have hosed up their PC's and gone Mac seem to assume get on the soapbox and preach that all PC's will end up a mess. Macs are a religion; like those door to door chaps trying to convert you; only their way is salvation; you are going to hell.:) Macs shelter the assuming folks.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bisom Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>"speed is the whole point of my workflow"<br> And there is lies the difference between the Mac user and the PC user. The whole point of my workflow is productivity. I can give you another example, at the end of the day it is possible that I will have Aperture, Photoshop, Bridge, Final Cut, Compressor, DVDSP along with Mail, iCal and Safari running. 7GB of Ram allows me to move between applications effortlessly allowing my to get more work done- even if I don't have the latest, greatest, fastest, processor (which is really a futile quest). I have yet to be introduced to even a custom PC that can run three or more resource intensive applications effectively.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklavoie Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>the go with the 24inch imac vs the 20inch have nothing to do with screen size..its a matter of viewing quality, the 24imac have a better one.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Re :A Dell Dimension 4550 is the only computer i ever owned. It is time to upgrade<br> <br /> Well lets look what you NOW own; a Dell Dimension 4550<br> <br /> Its motherboard can be loaded up to 1 gig of DDR ram only.<br> <br /> It has a pentium 4 maybe at 2.66Ghz.<br> <br /> It has an AGP slot<br> <br /> It has usb 2.0 slots; 4 pci slots<br> <br /> It probably has a 60 to 120 gig hda; probably a WD 7200 rpm unit<br> <br /> It probably has XP home or XP pro if one paid for the upgrade<br> <br /> It probably has a graphic card.<br> <br /> It probably has a cd burner dvd reader.</p> <p>If you fool with say just 50 meg to 100 megs files; you current box probably is equal to our imac 20" unit. With larger files our units 2 gigs of ram would be better.<br> <br /> The current box I am on now at home is a 1 ghz P3 with 1 gig of ram; it will rotate one of our Phase One 35 megapixel scans 90 degrees in 3.2 seconds; when I have 5 firefox windows; and are watching "Office Space" as an avi movie too with Dvix player; thats with a 104 meg file. The IBM PC here was built about 2000; it was a junker bought off of ebay about 2004 for 60 bucks. I bumped up the ram to 1 gig; placed a 1 ghz cpu instead of the 667Mhz; later added a 160Gig 7200rpm hda. It got a new dual layer DVD burner added a year ago.</p> <p>Your current box is not really a *slow* or obsolete box in the scheme of things compared to the long history of photoshop; its a dream machine once. For giant files you box has a hard 1 gig limit; thats what folks called *totally nuts* with our 200Mhz server we used for Photoshop back in 1996 with 1 gig of ram; that cost about 5 grand! I often get FREE P4 boxes like your current unit and clean them up and use as slaves for scanners.<br> <br /> ***An upgrade will give you DVD burning; more ram; maybe double the cpu effective speed; probably dual cores too.<br> <br /> Many PC;s just get slow due to too much stuff loaded on them; too many config conflicts; drives filled up. I might put old win200 one one of these P4 boxes from 2002 and it will then boot up in 1/4 of the time; and serve a scanner for another 6 years.</p> <p>One should consider with another new or used unit the ultimate hard ram limits your box will hold; say 4 or 8 gigs or 16 gigs or whatever. After awhile waht seems obscene will be the norm; and software then expands and fills up the ram. With older PS say CS2 and CS3 its nor really going to use above 2 gigs of ram; maybe say 3 since its a 32 bit program hard capped at 4 gigs. CS4 breaks this barrier and is 62 bits; one can use more ram now with a PC; but one has to wait for CS5 for the mac.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Re I have yet to be introduced to even a custom PC that can run three or more resource intensive applications effectively<br /> just like a time machine back 10 to 12 years ago!<br /> <br /> Well that is because they were the *norm* in the PC world before mac even considered them!<br /> <br /> Strange; a 8 year old IBM PC Pentium III that cost 60 bucks off of ebay can rotate 104 megs files in 3.2 seconds; while having a Dvix movie playing; having a mess of firefox windows going seems to void the ill Mac religions totaly stupid preaching. Its a computer from when Clinton was still President. One can add ripping a video too if one wanted; and it still will not barf or lock up.<br /> <br /> The old IBM servers we have with 1996 motherboards and afitted with two server 333 Pentium II's can be running an FTP site; running an batch conversion; running uTorrent too. The only "ineffective" thing by todays standards running a batch would take 12 times as long; since one is using a processor from 1998.<br> <br /> Macs are less green than PC's; less upgradeable; here a 1996 IBM server still runs one of my FTP sites; whuile msot all Apple stuff from 1996 is in landfills.<br /> <br /> The old Quad 200Mhz Pentium Pro box with 4 cpu's we had back in 1997 could juggle a mess of applications at once; this beast has 1 gig of ram.<br /> <br /> Part of the Koolaid preached by mac experts is their way is the only way;<br /> its actually a cult; a mindset firmly ignoring PC's that have drawn rings around Macs in many applications.<br /> <br /> Once the math world had masses of Pentium Pro's in clusters.<br> <br /> Its dogma; they want you to believe based on preaching; not actual real world facts.<br> <br /> Its probably more true that Mac users are less technically educated; a thus a religion dogma preaching is what they crave. They buy gasoline and fail to fathom the dumb gas pump uses a PC with old DOS; or windows NT4 embedded; or XP embedded; some using a dial modem even if their are just a few pumps.</p> <p><a href="http://www-csag.ucsd.edu/projects/hpvm/pentium-pro-cluster.html">masses of Pentium Pro's in clusters</a></p> <p>Robustness with running several applications an once has been the norm with higher end PC's since dual cpu mother boards came out; say the pentium era and early NT when dual cpu support was added as an upgrade option.<br /> <br /> There were dual cpu 386's even.<br /> <br /> Its the *norm* with a server.<br /> <br /> Mac added dual cpus as an option with the G4 back in 2000.<br /> <br /> Dual cpus support with Photoshop came out in version 4 back in 1996; for use PC users using dual cpus. One could buy a G3 back in 1997 to 1999 with one cpu; or use a PC with more balls using two or four CPUs; ie the ability to juggle more balls at once.<br /> <br /> It just took the Mac four years to bring out as dual cpu unit.<br /> <br /> It goes against the canned Mac dogma that some of us bought and used robust PC's with several processors to juggle alot of tasks at; many years before Mac was even working on the cute cases for their dual units.<br> <br /> Some of us just used dual and quad CPU PC's with NT server eons ago; to have a robust windows box 10 to 12 years ago that would juggle alot of balls at once. Adobe Photoshop added multiprocessor support way back in version 4; ie 12 years ago.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gulfbeach47 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Kelly, thanks for input. It appears that your saying upgrade my current pc, but sorry not trying to be offensive but much of what you are saying is going right over my head. Too many technical terms. My O.P. is question regarding the 20" screen or possibly 24" screen and questions about adding to the iMac tower later. I appreciate the many replies including your's. I'm down to deciding on 20" vs 24" screen in regards to the screen quality. I have read quite a few posts about "problems" with the 20" screen but also read that unless I am doing video the 24" is too much. Still it appears that many on this thread are saying go with the 24". Thanks, John</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesBecker-Toronto Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>John-I have the 20 inch iMac and it's quite good but most Mac people will tell you that the 24 inch model is better and I have heard it often enough to believe it; keep in mind what Patrick said-it's not just about the size of the screen-it's about viewing quality (the 24 inch iMac has higher specs). regards, cb :-)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdean1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>The smartest thing to do not lock yourself into a no upgrade path.<br> What happens when your imac monitor goes out, and it is [possible?<br> Need more storage, it will have to be an external drive, so much for the nice neat compact system.<br> Want a better video adapter then the two offered?</p> <p>Save yourself some $, get more powerful hardware and buy yours parts at Newegg, pay a tech $150.00 to put it together or do it yourself, it really is not that hard. Contrary to what the Mac followers tell you, Vista is a powerful stable operating system.<br> It is always smarter to buy into the system that holds the market share, there is more software available, easy upgrade path. Even if you think the Mac OS is better, the OS that the masses use is the better choice in the long run.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesBecker-Toronto Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p> <p >"Even if you think the Mac OS is better, the OS that the masses use is the better choice in the long run."</p> <p >Sorry but that's like saying McDonalds is the best restaurant there is because more people eat there. cb</p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdean1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Who says that more people there, what are you comparing it to, JackIn The Box? I am comparing Mac OS and Windows.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesBecker-Toronto Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Jerry-I was comparing it to all other restaurants. You suggested something (in this case an operating system) was better because 'the masses' use it; I'm saying that is not necessarily the case. cb </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklavoie Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>see what i mean John when i said;</p> <p>"..I think you should have as whe speak all you need to make a better decision..because in no time this thread will be full of pc vs mac really unbiased response : ).."</p> <p>voila!</p> <p>___</p> <p>"..Too many technical terms. My O.P. is question regarding the 20" screen or possibly 24" screen and questions about adding to the iMac tower later. I appreciate the many replies including your's.."</p> <p>This is where a post like that always go..technocal term, mac vs pc bashing, mine is bigger than yours kind of review : ) some war will never change...</p> <p>__________<br> "..The smartest thing to do not lock yourself into a no upgrade path..."</p> <p>agree, but not if the *possible* upgradable computer cost too much for nothing (imac vs macpro)</p> <p>"..What happens when your imac monitor goes out, and it is [possible?.."</p> <p>Possible but nerver heard that? i will say you replace it?</p> <p>"..Need more storage, it will have to be an external drive, so much for the nice neat compact system..."</p> <p>same as if you ahve a tower and dont want to instal one inside, or ont know how..or simply because you want to move it...</p> <p>"..Want a better video adapter then the two offered?.."</p> <p>Why? the OP said its for photo editing, and 256 meg is way enough as today modern world to do what he want until he get anpther station, mac or pc.</p> <p>That the problem with amateur, they always think they will upgrade, expand, do serious video soon, be on top of the montain and do $$$$$$$$$$ a year..... the fact his many user get a way too big machine full of space that do nothing and cost way more money then what you where supose to invest at first..and when you finally make the final paiement on your super upgradable system..its time to change it because it suck : )</p> <p>If your super upgradable system cost less than a Imac, and you want a pc, of course you should go that route..youl be idiot not doing so..but the fact is that the OP want to know if he should get a 20vs 24inch....nothing to go with pc vs mac here.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdean1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>If you wrote software which OS would offer you more cutomers? Only until Macs started using Intel CPU's did their market share improve and that's because people were buying them and installing Windows to run the software they needed. Believe it or not, if Apple did not have Ipods and Iphones which are great in my opinion they would probably not be around.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklavoie Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Mcdonald is not good? dam i tought it was the best place to go when i go to NY..now i have to find something else..thank.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesBecker-Toronto Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>it's ok Patrick-they are good (just not the best simply because 'the masses' go there). cb :-)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gulfbeach47 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>To Jerry Dean: In the program I am in, I have to purchase the Mac from Calumet or possibly Best Buy if program approves Best Buy, so Newegg is out of the picture. The program prefers that I used approved state vendors and Calumet is the only one used by college book store (Follett). I am also going to get a Mac 13" Macbook (did not want to bring that into the discussion yet) for showcasing work to customers, work on the road and will be handy in case of a Desktop problem. Just checked the Apple site and the price has changed since last time I looked. The one I had made note of was $1494 when I first priced it. Now it appears to be $1599. I may have to back down to the lower end model for $1299.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>John;</p> <p>I sorry to am too grumpy today to all ; its cold here!:)</p> <p>The ram in your current computer can be a maximum or 1 gig; ie 1024 megabytes.</p> <p>One can right click "my computer" and tell if us all what it is now.</p> <p>Mine says 1,047,992 KB ie ( 1 gigabyte)</p> <p>If its less just adding more ram is an inexpensive upgrade.</p> <p>A rough ancient rule of thumb is one should have roughly 3 to 5 times the ram as the file (image) one is working one. Thus with a computer with 1000 megabytes; dividing this by 5 means a 200 meg file. When one is working on a bigger file one tends to run out of room; the slow poke disc drive starts to get used; the machine then slows down radically.<br> <br /> Ram/memory is faster than the disc drive.<br> <br /> Its like if one had a small kitchen or small dinky darkroom thats 3 feet by 6 feet; a 80 lb person can work quicker in rotating around than a 400 lb person.<br> <br /> Having more ram is like having more kitchen counter space; a bigger garage; a bigger darkroom; a bigger kitchen ; It iss easier to handle a larger job.<br> <br /> When an object is too big say ones dresser or bed in a bedroom; to rotate the dressor or bed 90 degrees ; it might might require moving chairs; dressers; bookcases in a dinky bedroom; and moving nothing in a giant bedroom.<br> The operating system also hogs/uses memory/ram too.</p> <p>If your current computer only has 256 or 512 megs of ram; just moving to 1024 megs would be a great upgrade.<br> <br /> With a Mac many folks only add ram as their upgrade; their is radically less futzing with hardware.<br> <br /> A 24" imac is what many are saying to get with its better monitor; probably the only issue is cost.<br> <br /> Unless one really knows what type/size of images you work with; its hard to say what is really "obsolete" for your application.</p> <p>Sometimes its better to wait and study the issue(s) more and make due with the older hardware; or do a minor upgrade like adding more ram. ALL of these tools/toys get lower cost with time.</p> <p>Probably seeing and using somebodies local iMac 20" or 24" or even Vista box should be explored.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesBecker-Toronto Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Patrick-you are right; it's too bad that this has become,in part, a PC vs Mac debate. John-I thought that you might be interested in seeing the difference in specifications between the 20 inch model and the 24 inch model. regards, cb :-)<br> http://www.apple.com/ca/imac/specs/</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gulfbeach47 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Kelly, thanks that was more understandable for someone who is not very high-tech. Sorry bout the cold weather. We even got a little freeze here in NW FL. the last 2 days and I got a cold while waiting at the beach for hopefully one of those beautiful cold weather sunsets. Instead I caught a cold and just took some alka seltzer plus that expired in 2006! Do I pinch pennies? lol<br> I have been to Best Buy a few times and looked at both screens side by side with my own images. Personally I don't see that much difference in the screen, except size but I am far from an expert. Maybe I will go again and ask them to put same image on screen and let me compare.<br> Charles, thanks for the link. I have been to the Apple site many times and never saw that link. I hope other members will look at the link and look at the difference which besides the obvious sceen size, it seems to be the amount of pixels. I might of written this already but somewhere I read unless unless your doing video, the 20" is fine. Anyone have knowledge (facts) that the 20" screen had some issues? I read somewhere about problems in the corners of the screen for one thing but don't know about validity of what I read. Moving from a tiny Dell monitor even the 20" looks gigantic to me. 20" 1680x1050 pixels versus the 24" 1920x1200 pixels.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Charles;<br /> the original question is about upgrading from an older Pentium P4 PC with a totally unknown amount ram to an unknown new or used Imac 20" model.</p> <p>The link you posted for new imacs states " two SO-DIMM slots support up to 4GB" with is clearly WRONG for say the Imac 20" unit I have here. Thus if he buys a used Imac 20" based for 800 bucks on your link; you have steered him into the manure; a imac 20" that will only hold 2 gigs of ram.<br> <br /> Not all Imacs hold 2 gigs of ram; they still fetch alot of cash on the used market. At one time a few years back they were sold as new units at college books stores were the peanut galley wrongly assumed they were upgradeable to 4 gigs.<br> <br /> One reason these 20" imacs fetch alot of dough on the used market is mac folks are not detail oriented as much as PC folks; they love the cases over actual real specs.<br> <br /> In a bizzare twist this lack of details boosts the resale pricetags of older Imacs; folks read a link like you posted and *assume* that all imac 20" units hold 4 gigs of ram; when many only hold 2 gigs.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesBecker-Toronto Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 <p>Kelly-the site I posted is an Apple site and, needless to say, lists current models and shows their designation numbers; I hope I'm not wrong but I would expect people reading it would not expect older models to necessarily be the same. It would indeed be a shame (or worse) to buy an older iMac thinking it could be upgraded to 4GB only to find out that it couldn't. The buyer really does have to do his homework! As you noted, your 2 year old iMac only holds 2 GB of RAM while newer ones can hold more. My 1 year 20 inch iMac came with 1GB and I had them put in 2 instead and that has been enough so far (my old IBM pc had 384MB of RAM and was only able to take 1GB which was one of the reasons I bought a new computer!). regards, cb :-)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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