jack_welsh Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 <p>Good choices are the Mamiya Press, shoots 6x7 and 6x9, there is a groundglass back available. it is a Rangefinder like the Koni Omegas. The TLR's can be used in any mode , portrait or landscape. That's what the 6x6 format is for. Shoot now, crop later. But,if you want different lenses available. Then, it has to be a Mamiya. The older ones are cheaper than the C330's. Another good camera is the Mamiya 645. It is in 6x4.5 format. It's a SLR that can be use in either a eyelevel or waistlevel finder. (But,the waistlevel is only for lanscape mode, underline only). The RB67 is a 6x7, heavy,best on a tripod, but can be handheld.The best advice I can give if you will use the camera handheld at times. Is to get a gripholder. In regards to filters, such as yellow for B&W film. The TLRs and rangefinders are great for that. But, they are difficult with a Polarizer. The SLRs are better with the Polarizer, but, not as good with the usual color filters for B&W. It would be looking at your subject through a yellow or even darker red one.<br> The above mention cameras are ones I have used. Haven't had any experiece with the other brands. And, they will probably be above $100.00. Just bought a Mamiya 645 Pro in excellent condition from KEH that includes the non meterd prism and the 80 2.8n lens for $260.00. That's with shipping. There are older models that could be bought less. I would buy, (even if you pay more) from a good company. They have a return policy. And, they look it over first.<br> Folders can be troublesome. Being made decades ago.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_the_waste Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 <p>Curtis, since you're looking to stay under $100.00, might I suggest a Yashica A? I have one. The shutter speeds are limited to a "normal" photography range (1/25, 1/50, 1/100, 1/300 sec. and B), and the lens may be a Yashicor or Yashimar (which mine has). I'm not sure just how inferior these lenses are in comparison to Yashinons, but I'm happy with what I have. Stopped down, it's more than sharp enough for me and I got it for $40.00 CDN.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_leonard Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 <p>As far as TLR's go, consider the Mamiya C220. It is smaller and lighter than the C330's and uses the same lenses and attachmants. There are wide angle, normal and telephoto lenses available, as well as both waist level and eye level attachments (porrofinder and prisim). The porrofinder is lighter but has a dimmer and somewhat smaller image. Mamiya lenses are very good quality. The ground glass viewfinder has a Fresnel lens and is quite bright, and aftermarket ones are available that are even brighter.<br> An alternative I'd consider very highly for landscape (and general) photography is one of the 2 x 3 Graphics (Speed, Crown and Century). These are a little slow to use compared to a compact rangefinder, SLR or TLR, but are very versital. They have ground glass focus and rangefinder (for one lens only). I use an Ektar 101 on my Pacemaker 23 Speed Graphic. The image quality will amaze you on 6 x 7 format. You even have a few front standard movements available which can be useful in landscape use.<br> I have also used a Mamiya Super 23 press camera. Nice handling and excellent lenses, but very heavy. A Century Graphic is much lighter and will fold into a more compact package. Even the heavier Speed Graphic is smaller and lighter than a Mamiya Press. The Century and Crown will take a somewhat wider angle lens, which is something to consider in landscape work, while the Speed has a rear focal plane shutter that allows the use of barrel lenses if you want to experiment with some really old classics. Some of them get surprisingly good results and are frequently available at decent prices.<br> Dave</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_welsh Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 <p>Curtis, these are all good choices mentioned in this thread. Some above, some below the $100.00 price range. The one item about medium format is that while all 35 SLRs look about the same, so with DSLRs,etc. The medium format range has the most variety available. And, the camera you decide on, of course, doesn't have to be the last MF you have. I have a 6x9 speed graphic. They are great cameras. If, you decide on one of the Graphics. Make sure you get one that can take a 120 roll holder. Mine has the spring back.But, I don't mind using sheet film.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomscott Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 <p><em>"I use an Ektar 101 on my Pacemaker 23 Speed Graphic. The image quality will amaze you on 6 x 7 format".</em><br> I looked at a<em> </em>Speed Graphic, the seller says it takes 2 1/4 X 3 1/4inch film. Are you saying that it will accept 120 film?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bueh Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 <blockquote> <p>I looked at a<em> </em> Speed Graphic, the seller says it takes 2 1/4 X 3 1/4inch film. Are you saying that it will accept 120 film?</p> </blockquote> <p>If it has an international back and a roll film holder, yes. But all in all the old press cameras are not the most user friendly cameras. However, they produce amazing pictures, thanks to the high-quality lenses and the large 6x9 format. Still I wouldn't go for one as my first medium format camera unless you really like the very old-school approach to photography.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosteaM Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 <p>As Rob said you can't go wong with a Yashica TLR, I have the D model with the Yashinon lens better than the Yashicor. You should find a D in reasonable shape for under $100.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomscott Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 <p>Thanks again everyone for the valuable information, I have learned alot. I believe I will wait a little while until I have a little more to spend. I have way too many Cameras now and need to get rid of a few of them first anyway. I do like old school photography though, other than the little Nikon Coolpix L18 that I use for ebay and such, the T70 is the newest of the 16 or so that I have.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_welsh Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 <p>Curtis, one more point about the Graphics is that the rangefinder is only set for one lens at a time. The groundglass can be used for any lens. But, the camera needs to be on a tripod, then.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnpd Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 <p>Your big limiting factor is the $100 ceiling. Medium format costs more than 35mm, and there's a lot fewer MF cameras on the market compared to 35mm. Most of the cameras mentioned here will bust your $100 budget by a long shot.<br> But, it can be done. Look for an Argoflex, but make sure it is the Model E, which is the only one in the series that will allow the use of 120 as well as 620 film. You might even be able to pick up 4-5 Model E's for $100.00<br> I too have a Flexeret, Model III I think, which I paid $38 for. Also, you can look into some of the Ansco Viking bellows cameras. Figure on at least patching the bellows... they are getting quite old.<br> Ya wanted cheap! It can be done. These cameras can all be focused and have separate aperture and shutter speed settings. If you want to go real cheap, you can find some of the old box rollfilm cameras with fixed aperture/shutter. Those are REAL cheap.</p> <p>As stated, make sure your camera will take 120 film, or you're probably spend more time looking at it that using it. Also, some 620 cameras can be easily and simply modified to take 120 film... identical film, slightly different spool.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomscott Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>I have a couple of different Kodak Brownies that take 620 film, I was kinda looking for something with more control. I just sold another Canonet QL17 GIII so the budget is starting to look better. Maybe in a week or so I'll be in a better position to shop around a little.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_mareno Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>Go for a Zeiss Ikonta. There was one on the auction site that was freshly CLA'd w/ the Novar 75 3.5 lens and it went for the Buy It Now price of $85. The 6x6 is fine for landscapes. No rangefinder, but you are going to stop it down and shoot it at infinity anyway. The Novar is a fine lens, and the Zeiss folders have excellent bellows that are usually light tight. Besides, these cameras are a lot of fun to shoot. Excellent design and workmanship. I'm sure you can patiently get one that has been used by the seller and guaranteed to work fine for your $100 price. You may even be able to snag a Mess Ikonta that has an uncoupled rangefinder. There are other MF folders that will give wonderful images but I have found the Ikontas to be the safest bets for light tight bellows and sharp images.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_de_waal Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>Curtis,<br> I would suggest looking at Robert Monahan's "Medium Format Cameras Library Page." http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/index.html<br> Be warned: There is too much information on this site!<br> The site seems to be working at the moment, but it dissapeared a while back. If you can't get one of the links to work, try using the "Internet Archive: Wayback Machine" which has most of the Medium Format Cameras Library Page site archived - http://www.archive.org/web/web.php</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex macphee Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p><br /> Whilst some caution against folders for a beginner, and I can understand the rationale for it, my experience has been positive. I know by reputation that some folders, for example some Voigtlanders, can suffer from lens/film plane alignment problems, and I've had my share of folders whose shutters were sticky or seized, but I also have a number of folders that are very well behaved, including a couple with a reputation for leaky bellows, like the Isolettes. I have three Isolettes, all of them light-tight and with reliably working shutters. Two of them have the Solinar lens (Tessar design), and are capable of results that have had eye-popping reactions from those who have never even held a film camera before. The third has the lesser specified but still pretty impressive Apotar lens. Any camera of 'classic vintage' can have problems, and one has to be prepared for that, otherwise one should stick to this year's new technology offerings. $100 may be a tight budget if your intention is a MF camera that has had a recent CLA. I bought a couple of 'junk' folders just to practise things like shutter and lens and fabric cleaning on. I am not skilled, but I've been able to open and clean shutters and lens/diaphragm assemblies where it was mere time and grime that had taken their toll.<br /> <br /> I have two Zeiss folders, a Nettar (6x6) and an Ikonta A (4.5x6), both with Novar lenses ; not top of the range lenses but impressive and pleasing optics nonetheless, and stopped down they can match the Tessar. I may have been fortunate, but both were ready to work from the moment I opened the bellows. Both are light-tight, and both have reliably working shutters and clean lenses. The Ikonta A is a gem. It has no rangefinder, coupled or otherwise. But I have two accessory rangefinders, one in metres, one in feet, which I can use with any of my folders depending on how the focus lens is calibrated. I prefer this as it means there's less to go wrong with the camera, and if the accessory rangefinder fails, it's easier and cheaper to pick up another than have a rangefinder camera serviced. Michael is right about the 4.5x6 format being portrait through the fixed viewfinder. The Ikonta has a little fitting on the lens assembly into which can be attached an optional accessory finder. The finder can be rotated through 90 degrees, so you can use it portrait in one way, landscape in the other. It takes a little getting used to, but in landscape mode you tend not to be in a rush anyway and are likely to be tripod mounted. And in landscape mode, a rangefinder is unlikely to be an essential. It all depends on where your pictorial priorities lie.<br /> <br /> I have one other reason that I love folders for going out with, and that's that they always make people grin. A camera that puts people at ease instead of raising hackles is a wonderful thing for a photographer to have.<br /> <br /> The recommendations on Yashica TLRs are good. It's possible to engage in TLR mortal combat wearing the colours of Rollei, Zeiss, Yashica, Mamiya, or whatever, and some do it with relish. I have a Yashica-12, and it is great fun to use, once you get used to the mirror image. I think all the later Yashica TLRs are variations on the same theme and Yashinon lens. The 124G attracts a hefty premium, but in performance terms it offers nothing on the '12 or '24 or predecessors. My '12 can be had for a fraction of the price a 124G fetches. In fact, mine was a gift from someone who knew I'd appreciate and, more importantly, use her late and favourite uncle's camera, a sea-faring man who'd taken it all around the world. The '24 takes 220 film, which can be harder to find, but it also takes 120 film. Other makes have their advocates, and on this forum, they're worth listening to.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_welsh Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>What Aex said about tha Yashica's is true. Except I have the Yashica 12 and Yashica 24. Inside the 24 model, it says "Use 220 film only". That's a minor point, but, you will probably decide not to grab one if one comes up.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex macphee Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>Interesting clarification from Jack. I only have the '12, not the '24, so I'm not speaking from any practical experience about the '24, whereas Jack has both. I had merely assumed that there would be a separate datum line for each film format with which to line up the 'start' marks on the leader film. I wonder what the comparison is here with the 124, as I've assumed that the number 124 represented the capacity to handle both 12-on-120 and 24-on-220 frame schemes. The 220 has no backing paper (beyond the leader and trailer, so that might affect the inter-frame spacing. I'd be interested in any other comments and observations.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdm Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>I like using 120 also. The larger negatives make enlargements much clearer and less grainy. I first started with Kodak tourist with a shutter that went up to 1/200. I forgot the f stop range. But you can definitely stay under 100 or a few dollars over, for your first dive into MF. I was going to make a suggestion on a type and model camera for you to get ..... but i will wait 2 days till the auction is over .. ;) sorry.<br> If i win it i am going to Sell the MF camera i use. it takes beautiful pictures<strong>.<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/7722955-md.jpg" alt="" width="680" height="680" /> <br /> </strong></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minhnguyen9113 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>A Voigtlander Bessa 105mm f 3.5 which can uses 120 roll film or 620 roll film about $60.00 on Ebay</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomscott Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>dan Mar, you might as well give it up, Im probably watching it already anyway, LOL. If you win it, let me know what you are selling, unless you plan to auction it off of course. Nice Pic. Where was it taken? I'm currently looking at a Zeiss Mess Ikonta with Tessar lens. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdm Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>This was taken last Febuary with My Diacord L TLR Of a restored Bridge in the catskills of upstate NY. I stoped on my way up to school. That covered bridg was restored in 2001 and was almost 100 years old at that point .. I just wished there wer more clouds out that day. Im not watching the Zeiss Mess Ikonta :)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_welsh Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 <p>Alex, I have the Yashica Mat 124. The pressure plate, what is done with it to change from 120 to 220. Is to remove it, and turn it 90 degrees. The start mark for 220 is at the bottom of the 6x6 opening for the negative image. The start mark for 120 is at the bottom of the camera, near the supply spool. The camera is in Ex condition, even has a leather case and lens cap. But, I can't use it. Took one roll of film with it, the negatives were so out of focus. Looked inside, the rear lens group behind the shutter is gone. The person on ebay never mentioned it. When I got it,I didn't use it for awhile. (I guess I have too many Yashica TLRs.) Need to someday,look at one of my other similiar Yashicas that I could swap that lens group and put it in the 124. Even have a Yashica E, that one the selenium meter is not the best. (IT doesn't work)I've heard there has been a lot of the "E" models that have had trouble. That would be another Yashica TLR for Curtis to avoid.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomscott Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 <p>Well if anyone is still following this thread, I ended up with a Zeiss Ikon w 75mm Nettar Lens, Guaranteed to be in excellent working condition. We'll see, but I am pretty handy at tinkering with shutters and apertures and such as that, at least I've had pretty good success so far with Rangfinders and SLRs. I quess I need to be looking for a good incedent light meter next.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdm Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 <p>Yes im still following , I was lucky my Diacord had a working Light meter with it, and i also purchased a Folder that came with a great old Selenium meter that worked for almost 4 months perfictly .... untill i droped it :(</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomscott Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 <p>Yes I have a great old selenium light meter as well, great for a display model anyway. It's a Metrophot/Leica meter 2 with a nice leather case. Too bad it doesn't work. I believe the selenium has gone dead. Oh well, it came with an Argus C3 that cost about $6.00. And the Argus works great. Are those things breakable?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_lutz Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 <p>I would sugest a Gossen Luna Pro. Make sure you get a later model like a SBC (not an F) that takes regular 9V batteries. Nice meters but kind of big, but then so is the camera so what the heck. I just picked one up from KEH. $84 I think, rated E and the sucker looks brand new. Pretty much like that Canonet you sold me...lovely camera, loaded with Portra VC at the moment just waiting for the sun to come up!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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