21, 25 or 28mm for next lens?

steven_sherwin · December 23, 2008

<p>I am looking to buy another lens for my Leica M7 but am not sure which is the better choice. Currently I have Leica 35 and 50mm lenses plus a 90mm Voigtlander. I have read that there isnt much difference between the 35mm and 28mm coverage and that the 25mm would be better (I feel the 21mm is getting a little too much into distortion for the kind of street work I do). Can anybody give me some advice? Thank you.</p>

david11 · December 23, 2008

<p>Please don't take this the wrong way, but only you know what you like. I use 21 quite often, as well as 28, 50, 75, 90, and 135. I don't have a 35; I have owned several, but it was always a 'tweener lens for me, and I never used it. Many/most could not imagine rangefinder photography without a 35. Of course, the best answer is to suggest that you buy every focal length available, this way you will learn which lenses are important for the work you do. Steven, no one can tell you what is best for you, although many will try.</p>

john_gleason1 · December 23, 2008

<p>"Steven, no one can tell you what is best for you"</p>

<p>Got to agree with that. I'd look around and try to borrow or rent a lens or two in the focal length range you're considering, and try to develop a better sense of what lengths seem to fit your working style. Almost as good: Beg/borrow/rent a Bessa R4A or R4M. It's got all the right framelines built in, so you can get a feel for these lengths w/o actually shooting any film.</p>

rgerraty · December 23, 2008

<p>Zeiss 25 2.8 is great but quite big. I am learning to use it, also having 35mm as the nearest focal length in my kit. I wanted one jump down further than a 28. I would strongly consider a 25 f4 Voigtlander rangefinder coupled M mount just for its compact size, and cheaper again than the Zeiss. The Zeiss 25 / 28 finder is beautiful but expensive and precious. There is a lot of discussion in previous threads about the finders, the different options and even whether to have one. I take on board one photo.net member saying that he just knows the field of view. Others try to get by with the whole of the M viewfinder, but I wear glasses and I can barely see all of the 35mm frame. I would get a finder for a 25 and think you would have to get one for a 21.</p>

pc_b · December 23, 2008

<p>Steven, your next lens seems to be a 24/25. Contact me if you want to buy my black 4/25mm Voigtlander w/adapter. It's mint-/exc+.<br>

Cheers, Pete</p>

astral · December 23, 2008

<p>I wonder if this might help - the original was shot using an 18mm and the superimposed lines are <em>pretty close</em> to what you would get with a 20mm, 24mm, 28mm 35mm and 50mm lens (on film). There are some online demonstrators too, on Tamron's website and a few others if I remember correctly.</p>

<p>I find that in the above sorts of situation, the difference between a 35 and 28mm is more apparent than in wide-open landscapes. However, in the above photo, walking a few paces forwards or back can quickly simulate a different focal length, but the perspective might be completely changed. AC</p>

ronald_moravec1 · December 23, 2008

<p>The frame lines in the camera can be activated to see if you like a 28. Walk around and try and compare with 35.</p>

<p>My favorite has always been a 24 35 50 set. But a 28 is not too close to a 35. The thing to avoid is 21 24 28 which is too many. I think a 24 is a good substiture for for 21 and 28.</p>

michael_a._shapiro · December 23, 2008

<p>My feeling is that if you have to ask the question, you don't need the lens. Your current set is great. If you have extra money to spend, give it to someone who needs it.</p>

frederick_muller · December 23, 2008

<p>If you have a 35 and 50, go for either the 21 or the 25. The 15 is a nice next step from either of those.</p>

vic_. · December 23, 2008

<p>Some schools of thought use the 1.5x approach to focal lengths. For example:<br>

15mm<br>

1.5x 15mm = 24mm (closest)<br>

1.5x 24mm = 35mm (approx)<br>

1.5x 35mm = 50mm (approx)<br>

1.5x 50mm = 75mm<br>

Other schools use different multipliers. Best of luck in your choice.<br>

With Voigtlander lenses you can get them all (15, 21, 25, 28) as the price of them all is less than a Leica lens. Sell the ones you don't use.<br>

As far as a 21mm lens, the Zeiss 21mm f4.5 is reputed to be the sharpest 21mm lens.</p>

harvey_edelstein1 · December 23, 2008

<p>I think that the 25mm Zeiss Biogon is not too big, I have one and compared to slr lenses its small.<br>

This is a useful length for street and landscape fotos. 21mm on a full frame is a lot harder to use and 28mm is indeed for me an alternative to 35mm not an addition to it, like you observed it is close to 35mm. Here is a table from the Zeiss site. As you can see the 25mm is 20 degrees wider that the 35mm lens, while a 28mm is just 7 degrees wider than the 35mm lens.</p>

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<br />

<tbody>

<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff">Super Wide Angle</td>

<td width="64" bgcolor="#ffffff">Ap. range</td>

<td width="70" bgcolor="#ffffff">Focus</td>

<td width="46" bgcolor="#ffffff">Weight</td>

</tr>

<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/7DFC5D8918D79A2BC125710A0058E2A5#1" >Distagon T* 2,8/15 ZM</a></td>

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<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/7E14BCA7D3C8A25BC12571EC005363BD#2" >Distagon T* 4/18 ZM</a></td>

</tr>

<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/5AD83A50E3BF6253C12571090047C68A#3" >Biogon T* 2,8/21 ZM</a></td>

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<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/2ED02958B9BBC5DCC12571EC005336C5#4" >C Biogon T* 4,5/21 ZM</a></td>

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<br />

<tbody>

<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff">Wide Angle</td>

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<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/505EB8CF5C07A1A5C125710A003A2697#5" >Biogon T* 2,8/25 ZM</a></td>

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<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/594E4464B842653FC125710A00463D42#6" >Biogon T* 2,8/28 ZM</a></td>

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<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/031E56B0347B11E2C125710A005785CA#7" >Biogon T* 2/35 ZM</a></td>

</tr>

<td width="171" bgcolor="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/ContentsWWWIntern/45137706A38A3669C12574200032B62D#8" >C Biogon T* 2,8/35 ZM</a></td>

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harvey_edelstein1 · December 23, 2008

<p>Another thought , I know lots of folk got the Voightlander 25mm VF for their Biogon since the Zeiss is well over $300. Being cheap and proud of it I found that Mamiya made a nice external VF for the 6x7 universal cameras 50mm lens, which has the same field of view as 25mm on 35mm film. This is superior optically and built to take a hit, it has brightline frame and low distortion. Best of all I got mine for $25 in 9 shape. Its all metal not a plastic foot that will snap off. It will even correct for parallex but you will have to mark the scale for the M7 offset since its calibrated for the Mamiya Universal. I just set it for infinity when I am shooting more than 8 feet away so its level. Street and landscape with a 82 Degree lens pretty much what your total vision sees is in the picture and then some. The VF is a composition aid you use your focus patch in the M7 to confirm your focus.</p>

hiromu_kurosaki · December 23, 2008

<p>Do you like to use an external finder? If no, then you have 28mm frame line in your M7, right? And I think you can use full view finder to approximate 25mm. But for 21mm, you will prpabably need an external finder.</p>

Robin Smith · December 23, 2008

<p>Surely Harvey the 50mm is not correct as 6 x 7 is 1.17 ratio vs the 1.5 ratio of 35mm?</p>

george_shihanian · December 23, 2008

<p>Steven,<br />From your own question I think you know what you need, that's a 24 or 25. I feel the same as you do with regard to the possible distortion. I have Zeiss 25, CV 35, Canon 50 and CV 75 for my M6. I found little use for my Elamarit-M 90mm and sold it and bought the 75. Do you use the 90 much?<br>

And Harvey is correct, external viewfinders can be awful. I bought a new CV one, and it takes A LOT of getting used to. Move your eye 1mm either way, (it seems) and you lose the ability to see the whole 25mm frame area, and I don't wear glasses.<br>

Another thought is don't buy a 25, get a 28 and sell the 35 if you should like the 28mm a lot. Only you will be able to tell, not us. Happy Holidays!</p>

kelly_flanigan1 · December 23, 2008

kelly_flanigan1 · December 23, 2008

<p>40 bucks on ebay 10 years ago; but ony only F6</p>

Troll · December 23, 2008

<p>I took a look at your gallery -- don't believe you need anything else.</p>

rgerraty · December 24, 2008

<p>Bill's right. But if he wants one, maybe we should buy it for him.</p>

debusti_paolo · December 24, 2008

<p>I think you'd buy a 21mm(i have the elmarit asph but it's prone to flare much more than my contax g2 biogon that's a real gem) or ,at least a 24 mm (that performs very well) if is not a matter of money you can also consider the new leica's 21 and 24 mm f 1.4 lenses.Or you can consider to buy a used contax g2 with 21mm (terrific combo).<br>

Merry xmas<br>

Paolo</p>

neilambrose · December 24, 2008

<p>Steven, you've got some great work. What do you feel you're missing with your current set-up?</p>

<p>I was interested in your comment about 21mm - 'too much distortion for the kind of work I do'. I shoot a lot of street as well and find that 21 is an interesting addition to my normal lenses. Not sure if you've ever tried one, but I can recommend the 21 ZM 2.8 which is ultra sharp, flare resistant, and with no distortion worth talking about.</p>

<p>Otherwise, have you considered the new 24mm Elmar? Not yet available, but the reviews are excellent. Sharpest and smallest 24 in the line-up, I believe.</p>

p_m12 · December 24, 2008

<p>A famous photographer used to carry 21mm, 35mm & 85mm lenses.</p>

pc_b · December 24, 2008

<p>...another 28mm plus 90mm.<br>

And another with both M-Leicas, Nikons AND MF gear all at once.<br>

And another 35mm and 50mm.<br>

And another TWO 28mm on two M-Leicas....<br>

Could someone please tell me how anyone could think statements like the above were usefull to anybody?<br>

(ok, this might be better tagged under casual discussions...)</p>

steven_sherwin · December 24, 2008

<p>Thanks to everyone for the feedback and I realise that the final decision as to which lens to buy (if any) is mine. The advice you have provided has given me a range of options to consider.</p>

p_m12 · December 24, 2008

<p>One could also argue that the whole Photo.net is not useful to anybody, because there is so much disagreement among the members. Some people just look for an opportunity to attack some other member in the forums. Since you cannot figure it out for yourself ... 21mm, 35mm and 85mm lenses give you approximately 90, 60 and 30 degrees of view ... very evenly spaced (anglewise). It's as good an argument as some of the other posts here. Now go ahead and attack me again ... keep Photo.net the most rude forum on the internet.</p>

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