Engagement couple wanting all digital files

[jude_mcconkey1]

<p>Ed, you know, I think you're right on the digital age and how we need to re-configure what we do for clients. I ran into a couple who have a photography studio and was telling them about what happened. The wife said that they finally gave in and now the do the wedding for a certain fee, work up the photos, then sell the CD to them for $500. PERIOD. not prints, nothing. She said she hated to do it but she was tired of arguing with couples.</p>

 

[picturesque]

<p>Jude--I'm glad things worked out for you. It is nice when you find out that people aren't as rude as you thought. I'll bet you that the people who said you were partly to blame for not being willing to give a CD/DVD are young people.</p>

<p>Ed L.--you are welcome. When I first started, I was different for giving the negatives along with the coverage. Now it is the norm to give digital files. It doesn't really bother me what people do with my images. The quality is there in the files I hand over, and I have not found that it has affected future sales at all. But I understand Jude's feelings over not wanting his work to be changed. There are other alternatives to giving full resolution JPEGs, such as medium res or lower, and making the files an option. You could have a low initial price package which does not include files, while the expensive packages would, maybe after an album order is placed, if you still want to get album profit. You could also limit the files by quantity.</p>

[jude_mcconkey1]

<p>i'm a girl<br>

lol</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Oops, sorry. Tee hee... :^)</p>

[jude_mcconkey1]

<p>Now does it make more sense that I was overly emotional? LOL</p>

[hassy501]

<p>Tyler has NO sense of being a businessman. If they want the files, it will cost them $2000.00 for the raw files. Take it or leave it. If they love them that much they will pay that. If they don't they won't.<br>

I would love to be Tyler"s accountant. There would be NO work to be done on his books.</p>

<p> </p>

[verity_holworth]

<p>Had it been specified before you took the photos and you were with holding them then I would go with the couple. However it was an afterthought and I think the best thing would be to explain to them that although it's not something you would usually do agree to give them the photos for a fee you believe reasonable. Its a compromise they can take or leave and if they do decide to give you bad publicity at least you caan defend yourself knowing you tried to find an alternative</p>

[crystalleephotography]

<p>Wow.</p>

<p>That's about all I can say to this post right now.<br>

Jude, you posted here with a legit question looking for some serious feedback, and instead you've recieved a lot of immature, rude comments from people who seem to think they're high and mighty. There is some good, constructive advice from some people here, don't get me wrong, but a lot of it is just completely uncalled-for.<br>

<br /><br />First let me say that I agree with never ever giving out unedited images. Our customers deserve the best quality we can offer, and quite honestly, giving them SOOC images on a cd so they can take them to Walmart and print them is definately not the quality they deserve. And sure, that couple can get their little Shutterfly photo book made with your unedited images, and brag to her friends about her "great" photographer, but seriously... it doesn't look professional, and it's not going to get you more bookings.</p>

<p>Secondly, who cares if charging a sitting fee is "becoming less and less used." I know many serious pros out there who do charge a sitting fee. To each their own, I say. They paid you for your time, and $75 is very reasonable considering what many people charge these days.</p>

<p>"I'll bet you that the people who said you were partly to blame for not being willing to give a CD/DVD are young people." - I'm not even going to comment on how rude that is. Enough said.</p>

<p>I'm glad you were able to resolve the situation, I'm sorry you won't be doing weddings in the future... it really is a beautiful business once you get going. And I applaud the way you handled some of the responses on this post. They absolutely did not need to treat you that way.<br>

Best of luck in the future, I look forward to seeing more of your posts around the site :)</p>

[wendyskinner]

<p>Jude,<br>

I think you have been very reasonable and it sounds like this couple are giving you uncalled for stress.<br>

Unfortunately we live in a world where people want an awful lot for not very much.<br>

Their request does sound a little odd, I wonder why they want unedited pictures. Maybe they feel that if they edit them theirselves then it is no longer your picture but theirs?<br>

Sorry to hear you wont be doing weddings any longer, Good luck with the galleries.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Hey Crystal--I don't see how my comments were rude. In the first case, I stated a fact, with no judgement attached--I wasn't suggesting Jude drop that model. In the second case, my meaning was (I thought) clear, given what I said about younger people not being used to the 'low sitting fee/charge for prints' business model. I said they aren't used to it, maybe never even heard of it--that's all. And that the people criticizing Jude for not giving a CD/DVD were also probably young people, criticizing her for the same reason I just stated. What's rude about that? I think you need to comment 'on how rude that is', because I think you're getting your arguments crossed here.</p>

[aldrich]

<p><em>"And that the people criticizing Jude for not giving a CD/DVD were also probably young people, criticizing her for the same reason I just stated."</em></p>

<p>Although I did not criticize when offering my personal strategies for handling my own clientele in an earlier post, I did suggest in a way that Jude should give some sort of digital media. There was no criticism intended. I was merely calling to attention the fact that this is 2008 and people are fully aware of the fact that digital imaging is changing the face of photography forever. I am a younger person -- 25 -- and most of my clientele at this time have been under 40. Most of them ask about obtaining digital images in some way shape or form, and I have to accept the fact that sometimes you have to find a middle ground to make clients happy and keep business flowing. I lent advice regarding MY middle ground, which is completely different for everyone.</p>

<p>I do, however, take a bit of offense to the comments that because I am "young" that I am out of touch with business practices or what should be done in such a situation (this is what I am implying by those comments, correct me if I am misconstruing). Unfortunately, I am unfamiliar with the world of purely film (althoughI do use it!). Over the next 10, 15, 20 years, when I gain the experience and wisdom many of you have gathered and are most kind to share, the way people perceive photography, and the way they display it (i.e. ever larger and sharper digital frames for one example) is going to change even more. I am merely adapting my business practices to the world I am encountering every day. Some who have been doing this much longer than I have may choose not to. That is their choice. Regardless, we just need to accept a generational difference in photography...it's not going to go back, only forward...someday, today's young people will be tomorrow's experts, and there's nothing any of us can do about it, good or bad. Perhaps we can learn from each other instead of bickering over being young and naive or "stuck in yesterday."</p>

<p>Wishing a happy holiday season to everyone!</p>

[picturesque]

<p>OK--not sure why this is turning into a problem, but Ryan--no where did I say young, "and naive" or, young and "out of touch". So if you took offense, I apologize, but I don't apologize for my statements, which, as I explained to Crystal, were without judgement attached. Why is it assumed that being young is somehow negative in my statement? Actually, the person I was thinking of when I made the latter statement was Tyler. I saw nothing in your post that was critical. In fact, your statements support my original contention that younger people may not have even heard of a business model where they couldn't get digital files.</p>

<p>To make it perfectly clear, here it is again, in more detail. I contend that younger people/clients, being used to the ease of digital photo files in their own lives, may find it hard to believe that a professional photographer would not sell or include digital files, whether processed or unprocessed, as part of their product. In addition, the practice of retaining/not selling negatives (now digital files) and realizing profit through print sales is a traditional business model that is becoming less and less used. So it may be lost upon a younger client that the sitting fee charged in such a model is in the "too good to be true" category (assuming that they will get ALL the files as well).</p>

<p>On the other hand, Jude can do and is entitled to do whatever she wants--it is her business. Again, not sure why people think my statements were rude or negative.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Aha...re-reading my posts, I guess that you are reacting to this statement?</p>

<p><em>Most young people don't have the experience of having to deal with business practices older people take for granted, including polite forms of business communication.</em><br>

<em></em><br>

What I mean is simply this--a person that has just graduated from college will not have the same experience with common business practices, including forms of business communication, that a person who has worked in the business world for a while will have. The statement was made to address Jude's consternation re the e-mails she received from her clients. Again--not sure where you are reading any negativity?</p>

<p>Also, where is the mention of being "stuck in yesterday"? Am I missing something?</p>

[aldrich]

<p>Nadine,</p>

<p>"Stuck in yesterday" is in quotations because it is a common phrase...it was not meant to quote you...young and naive is not in quotations, hence my own wording and not quoting you.</p>

<p>I guess it's just a big misunderstanding. Yes, I am familiar with business models that involve no distribution of digital material. I do not agree with them, but it does not mean I am not aware of them. I simply contend that I would rather make a fee distributing digital media than not do business with the client at all. When I am at an introductory meeting, and a potential client asks "Do you allow us to have any kind of digital files?" (and this question comes from the 30 and 40-year old clients too), my instinct tells me thats a sticking point for them. FWIW - When I do senior portraits, often the school requires a digital file for insertion into the student yearbook, which the student must deliver. Am I to refuse it, hence refusing the sale?</p>

<p>So I guess I got a bit defensive. I've been doing business since I was 23, and I admit I have much to learn, but I have learned enough to have repeat customers and satisfaction in what I do...Sorry for any confusion...as you can see, we treasure our photography and our practices as our own children in a way!</p>

<p>Also, FWIW, I agree with you that Tyler's comments were far out of line. have a good holiday, and my apologies again.</p>

<p>Friends? :-)</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Ryan--I understand what you are saying re selling digital files. As I said above, when I started a long time ago, with film, I always included negatives in the package, which went against all prevailing practices at the time, so you don't need to justify your packages to me.</p>

<p>Friends, absolutely. It was never the opposite.</p>

[William Michael]

<p><em><strong>"This experience illustrates the importance of a detailed, written contract for all photography projects."</strong></em><br>

<br>

Maybe.<br>

<br>

But, from a BUSINESS perspective and without attaching judgments to persons, but rather looking on as if it was a role play, the foregone is an illustration of: </p>

<p>. lack of clear communication and adequate confirmation procedures of that communication; <br>

<br>

. a multiplicity of assumptions, before adequate fact gathering; <br>

<br>

. emotional drivers, wasting time, energy and diverting focus.<br>

<br>

A successful Wedding Photography business needs to address these protocols, prior to drafting any contracts.<br>

<br>

WW</p>