nikon weathersealing (d300 without?)

[daniel_p]

<p>here's something interesting I found<br>

<a href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=nikon_d700%2Cnikon_d90%2Cnikon_d300%2Cnikon_d3x&show=all">dpreview comparisson<br /> </a><br>

Apparently neither the d300 nor the d700 are environmentally sealed.</p>

<p>I'm another case for the d90 vs d300 debate, and value durabitlity/lengetivity especially after these issues forced me to upgrade sooner then expected, thus I'm leaning towards the d300.</p>

<p>I'm not planning on taking the camera for a swim, instead want something that just will work in humid as well as dry conditions. Is d90 capable of this ? Do I need to look towards a d300? or as dpreview suggests, d3x?<br>

I would hope that all these cameras would offer some sort of protection from the elements. Is this not the case?</p>

[tri-x1]

<p>I don't know how you define "environmentally sealed."<br>

I think the D300 is probably as well sealed as the D3. But that doesn't mean you can take them out in a friving rainstorm. They should handle humidity as well as any other well-made camera.<br>

If you want the most environmentally-protected Nikon, find a Nikonos. They aren't made any more but I think they can still be  found new. You can walk right off the end a peir  with one and it will keep working. Of course they shoot film.<br>

You also can purchase waterproof cases for just about any Nikon model--including the DSLRs</p>

[eric_arnold]

<p>yes you need an $8,000 camera, dammit! actually, amazon's got it for 12,5.<br>

no camera is going to offer complete protection from the elements, but if you need more weather-resistance than d300 has, a d3 will only set you back about $4500 or so. you might also want to check out the Olympus E-3, which i believe has some degree of environmental sealing. or, just get an all-mechanical film camera.</p>

[shuo_zhao]

<p>The D300 has rubber seals on the edges around the battery and CF card compartments. My D40 lack those, so there's a difference. Not sure how well sealed are the buttons and dials on the D300, but my camera has already survived through a lot, so far.</p>

[daniel_p]

<p>I've seen the Olympus E-3 and that's just te kind of water proofing that I would call frivolous within my needs.</p>

<p>The reason I'm posting this is, that I was under the impression that the d300 was weather sealed at least to some degree, but the comparison at dpreview is saying it isn't. So I'm really wondering if the d90 has some form of weather proofing in place, like sealed buttons and some humidity control that are dismissed because it is not up to par with some of the Olys and Pentaxes.<br /> I'm not going to play with it in salty water, but I've had my camera act up in humid conditions (not wet) and would rather pay the 500 extra to get longer lasting equipment.<br>

--<br>

alternatively, is there maybe some website that documents the different stages of durability and wether protection? Obviously it's not a case of all or nothing, but it would be nice to know how these cameras rank as opposed to yes or no.</p>

[Rene11664880918]

<p>According to most users it seems that the D300 is better sealed than the D80/90. I live in Japan and here is so humid and I have never heard complaints about Nikon cameras not being able to handle the weather. I had a D80 and no w a D300 and rain doesn't stop me going out to take a picture that I want. It is just a camera and they devaluate so much so fast so i don't see the point on worrying so much about them. The d300 will do fine as long as you don't go swimming with it. Cheers! </p>

[cmulcahy]

<p>The D300 does have SOME sealing.  It is better sealed then the D90,D80,D70,D60,D40, etc.  As far as I know, those other cameras have little to no seals.  If you want more sealing that what the D300 has, then you have to jump up to the D3. </p>

<p>The D300 is not water proof, but it can handle more then most cameras.  I was told the D300 has more weather/dust sealing then Canon 5d, which costs significantly more. (not sure on the new MarkII?)  Could someone confirm that?</p>

<p>The only camera in that price range with better weather sealing is the Olympus E3.  I got to look at one of those for the first time today in fact.  I have to say it feels like a pretty nice camera.   According to the Olympus rep you could go out w/ the E3 and shoot in a light rain.   That's not something I'd do w/ my D300.   But I think the D300 can handle some "moist" situations that the D90 could not handle. </p>

<p>If it's just durability you are looking for then I don't think there is a digital camera priced under $2000 that is better then the D300. (in terms of durability and sealing)  Maybe the Olympus E3?   Even if it was, I'd choose the D300 for other reasons.</p>

<p>As far as humidity?  I don't know.  I think I'd be more worried about my lenses then my camera.</p>

<p> </p>

[jorgen_udvang]

<p>Remember that there's little point in having a sealed camera if the lenses aren't sealed. The only manufacturers who make clear statements about these matters are Olympus and Pentax. This is one of the most important reasons why I use Olympus (E-1) in addition to Nikon. The only current Oly-model that is weather sealed is the E-3, but all the pro and super pro lenses are. With Pentax, the K200D, K20D and the discontinued K10D sealed, as well as some of the new lenses.<br>

When that is said, I have used my D80 with an old 85mm f/1.8 in the rain, and it survived. I wouldn't trust it to do that on a permanent basis though. As has been mentioned before, the Nikon pro models are all sealed, but finding out what lenses are, is a hazzle to say the least. A rubber seal around the mount isn't enough.</p>

[tom_luongo1]

<p>From Nikon websites -<br>

The D300 has "advanced dust and moisture protection" - <a href="http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/ProductDetail.page?pid=25432">link here</a><br>

The D700 is  "tested to stand up to the rigors of the globetrotting photographer and is weather sealed using precision O-rings where connections are made to effectively combat dust and moisture." - <a href="http://press.nikonusa.com/2008/07/the_agile_new_nikon_d700_fxfor.php">link here</a><br>

The D3 has a "comprehensive series of O-rings and other specialized seals" - <a href="http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25434/D3.html">link here</a></p>

[daniel_p]

<p>thanks for the replies, and thanks for those links.<br>

I'm glad you quoted it, because it took me some time to find even with those links.</p>

<p>I believe most cameras withstand some water drops and light rain. But in my (somewhat limited) opinion, what causes problems is the fluctuations. I live in very dry climate, but if I travel to somewhere that's humid i start noticing problems. I've also been careful when going in and out with the camera when it drops under -20 C, as the condensation around the PCBs is not unlikely to cause some problems aswell.</p>

<p>Or am I just being paranoid ?</p>

[d_balzac]

<p>i use D200 (not in bag!) to hike mountains. Had it under rain/snowstorm and totally wet many times over in past 2yrs - never even small issue. once was splashed in the river - no issues, dropped in dust in desert- no issues, dropped from clif - no issues... if this is not sealed - what is? cheers</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>From the user manuals, D3, D700 and D300 warnings are <strong><em>exactly</em></strong>

the same. I suppose than this cameras will have equal or very similar protection.<br>

The manuals beware against internal rusting. Also, they advice to avoid sudden changes in

temperature. "To prevent condensation, place the device inside a carrying case or plastic bag

before exposing it to sudden changes in teperature... " (from the "Owners manual"). Very conservative, thought.<br>

Looking at the brochure graphics, looks like the D3 has every button protected (marked on yellow) and the D700

don`t. I try to remember that has been said (by the Nikon staff) that the D3&D300 has the same sealings. It`s

difficult to know without dissasembling the camera, thought. Sealing design could be different but with the same

protection degree. Anyway, it seems to me that althought this cameras are certainly protected agaist

elements, this protection is <strong>never</strong> hermetic, then I`d not force this expensive gear to

the extreme...</p>

[acarodp]

<p>Do not pu too much trust on "feature lists". I still own a D200 which is listed as not environmentally sealed by DPReview. But in fact the D200 is extensively sealed, o-rings around evert button and wheel, and around every door. The D200 can easily shoot an hour under the rain (I did it many times) and endured with me a lot of trips into pretty harsh climates. For your info, the past Nikon pro flagship, the D2xs, is listed as not sealed too. And by any account its sealing it not at all worse than the one on the D3/D3x. Anyway, D200, D2h, D2x, D2xs, D300, D700, D3 and D3x are ALL sealed, in the sense that buttons, wheels and doors are protected with o-rings.<br>

Now, going back to your question, the D300 is surely as well sealed as the D200 and possibly more. The same holds for the D700, all these could be somewhat less resilient than the D3, but not necessarily because of the sealing: the capability to whitstand a harsh environment or a hard use is given by many characteristics, sealing is just one of them, albeit an important one.<br>

Part of the misunderstanding lies in the fact that sealing is almost never specified to a standard. Nikon does not guarantee the camera to have to endure a given amount of, say, rain. So in principle, if the camera fails because water crept in, I don't think you might expect a free repair. Any standard would not be of much use anyhow: when you take the camera to repair, how can they assess how much rain it did take? Or if you just dropped it in the bathtub? When you are shooting in the rain, are you bringing along a gauge to measure wether or not the rain intensity is within Nikon specs, and if not you hastily pack everything up?<br>

In this case, it is just a matter of trust. Nikon has a good track of making sturdy, weather resilient equipment. D300, and D200 before it, are cameras with another level of build compared to D80/D90, and in my opinion, and according to my experience, they are consistently selaed, well designed and well put together, and capable to endure a lot of abuse.<br>

If you ask my feeling, if you need to work into humid, very dry, dusty, very cold, very hot and so on evironments, the D300 should be really, really preferred to the D90. Above the D300, especially jumping to the D3 will likely give you some further protection but the improvement is likely to be less significant than the one you get going from a D90 to a D300.<br>

L.</p>

[bruce_margolis]

<p>Daniel, I don't think you are being paranoid.  After all, camera bodies are not cheap.</p>

<p>That said, over the past year I have used the D300 in conditions that include very high humidity, exposure to sand/dust/wind, light rain, ocean spray, high mountains and rain forests.  Not a problem at all, though sometimes I will use a plastic cover.</p>

<p>My bigger concern would be the lack of protection from the lens.  Some, like the 70-200, have added sealing but most don't.  This could be the weakest link no matter how 'environmentally sealed' the body is.</p>

 

[daniel_p]

<p>thanks for all your replies</p>

[wpahnelas]

<p>nikon makes no pretense that any of its current cameras is "waterproof" or "weatherproof" -- and if you write to tech support they will obligingly point you to the pertinent sections of the product manuals, and warn that water damage is not covered under warranty.<br>

that said, all the DSLR camera bodies i've used are well made, and the D300 and D700 are especially well protected against the elements. unless they've been taken down, diagrams of the environmental sealing can be viewed on nikon's website.<br>

in practical terms, i wouldn't stand under a waterfall with my D700, or even try to use it in tropical-storm type rain -- at least, not without some additional "environmental sealing." besides extreme conditions, however, i have no hesitation about taking out my camera. generally speaking, if i can stand the weather, so can the camera.<br>

the only cavaet to that is the MB-D10 battery grip. if i take the camera out in damp conditions, the grip comes off. it's prone to malfunction from moisture entering between the grip and body, and if the electrical contacts get wet the camera will begin to malfunction. everything returns to normal if the grip is removed, but you really don't want to go there...</p>

[photo5]

<p>Ziploc bags. I put all my gear in ziploc bags when I'm traveling around. They're cheap and they offer some protection to weather and dirt.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Quoting myself from another thread (too lazy to rewrite from scratch):</p>

<blockquote>

<p>  ...no dSLR or lens should be considered weather proof or even weather resistant. Most knowledgeable repair techs I've met will emphasize these are *dust* seals. Offhand I can think of only one Nikon SLR that Nikon itself advertised as being weather resistant, and that was the F6.***<br>

The best solution to weather protection is to using a weather-resistant housing or flexible shield. Don't count on the dust seals on the camera or internal baffling of the lenses to offer adequate protection against rain or splashes.<br>

*** In "Nikon Full Line Product Guide" volume 11: "...superior resistance to dust and moisture (over two hours in rain falling at 0.39 inch per hour), the F6 can withstand the most severe conditions."<br>

I don't recall Nikon making similar claims about any other film SLR or dSLR in this same catalog or any other product information I've read on paper or online.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I haven't studied any more recent catalogs or online statements directly from Nikon, so I don't know whether they have made any definitive statements regarding how the more recent crop of dSLRs are suited to environmental extremes.</p>

<p>Frankly, as much as I respect most of the tests and reviews done by dpreview, I'd want to know what, specifically, do they mean by "environmental sealing".  Because unless this terminology comes directly from the camera manufacturer only two options remain:</p>

<ol>

<li>Dpreview has, in keeping with its practice of standard testing methodology, developed methods for testing the seals of cameras to determine resistance to entry of foreign materials; in which case, they should be willing to share the specifics of such methodology; or...</li>

<li>The phrase "environmental sealing" actually means nothing and in a rare departure from their usual consistency, they've just coined a phrase that could be interpreted to mean almost anything the reader wants it to mean.</li>

</ol>

[jeffjones]

<p>The very first time I shot with my new D300 was last fall.  I was shooting a minor league baseball game and the camera was exposed to a very light drizzle for just a few minutes before the game was called off.  I had sheidled the camera from the drizzle and kept it wiped off, just as I have on many occaisions with all my other Nikon DSLR's.  I had no idea the camera had been affected until I tried to shoot the next day when the game was resumed.<br>

When I looked through the viewfinder I was shocked to see that the veiwfinder image was a blur and had hundreds of small spots over its entire area.  I shot a few test shots and was relieved to see that the review of on the back LCD was sharp, which meant the recorded image was not affected like the veiwfinder was.  I ended up shooting the rest of the game with one of my D2H's and set the D300 in a dry warm location for the next several hours.  The viewfinder image did eventually clear up, but the same blurring and spots reappeared about a week later when I happen to be shooting in a high humidity situation, but not in the rain.<br>

Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed in the "weatherproofness" of the D300.  I sent it back to Nikon for warranty repairs.  When returned about a week later the work order did not show replacement of any components, so I dont' know exactly what they did to the camera.  It has worked flawlessly ever since, however, but I have been very careful to keep it out of the rain.<br>

As I said, I've shot many times with my D2H's, D70 and my old D1X and D1H in the rain with no ill effects.  I'm not sure one can conclude the D300 model is not as well sealed.  It may be I just had a defective specimen.  FYI</p>

[mt4x4]

<p>Pick up a couple of Rainsleeves (like $6 for 2) and put them into your camera bag.</p><div></div>

[shaloot]

<p>or get the Pentax cameras... k10d, k200d, k20d... all capable sealing (and cheaper) and if you get the weather-sealed lenses, you're golden.  I take my k10d in normal rain but I've seen people put their cameras under running tap water to clean it...</p>

[david_manning1]

<p>Lex,</p>

<p>You beat me to that passage in the product guide.  </p>

<p>By the way, the F6's weatherproofing, which seems to be the best in the industry, seems to be limited by the film.  The F6 will excel in the jungle, desert, or the arctic, but try keeping the film dry and cool but not frozen (brittle film tears by the advance)!  Perfect reasoning to use a memory card.  Now we need a tough, weatherproofed dSLR.  Boy, it's always something...</p>

[phil r calgary ab canada]

<p>I know that this is a Nikon forum and haven't shot any of their stuff so don't have much comparison. However, I agree as I was shooting out in the snow for two hours the other day (minus ducking into a coffee shop to warm up) and had no fears as snow melted on the camera in the coffee shop and afterwards.<br>

Washed it under the tap on occasion; ie after being at a dusty rodeo.<br>

I've shot photos for hours in a swack of rainstorms too -- both prairie and west coast -- with no trouble. Just another reason I love my K10. I was worried before I could afford a DA* lens, so I used my old manual 50mm f1.4 and still had no problems, even without a full seal.<br>

Yay Pentax.</p>

[frank_skomial]

<p>"I still own a D200 which is listed as not environmentally sealed by DPReview"  -<br>

See Nikon D200 Manual, page 187, section "Keep Dry".</p>

[animalexplorer]

<p>I have been going down into Central and South America for over 5 years with Nikon's D100, 200 and 300 and I have never had failure, I have contended with humidity in the jungle before but it has never really been a major issue. Usually I just take the camera out of my pack way ahead of time before shooting to let the camera's body and lens acclimate to the ambient temperatures and the build up of humidity doesn't occur.<br>

Paul :)</p>