No sharp images

[mauro_franic]

<p>Limit yourself to 24 shots a week.  You'll figure it out before the second week is over.</p>

[chrisjb]

<p>Hi, I`d rather use one focus point as the camera will choose a FP which covers a point with the most contrast, normally the one you don`t want. Try centre point only on something like the darker tree in yard. with `1 shot` 1/2 press then reframe, also with such wide angle it maybe better to zoom in focus and then zoom back out. 200ISO in `Av` mode at 5,6~f8 should yield a sharp pic, otherwise :)</p>

[xingyuan_wang]

Chris, I've tried a similar test but to no avail... I've been taking pictures almost exclusively with center point AF and the camera still doesn't get focus bang on. (I started a separate thread before this one -- "Questions about Focusing" -- in this forum.)

 

Peter, that being said, you should try setting the AF point to center -- hold down the right-most button (top right corner, in other words) while rotating the selection dial until the center point is highlighted. Try shooting with this one point (and AF set to "One shot") on a contrasty subject; another possibility is to do a focus test. You can grab a pdf version of the site here: http://focustestchart.com/chart.html

[touchinglightphotography]

<p>Peter:  All I've seen here is your resized image, shot at 1/125th of a second at f3.5 at 17mm. <br>

A few changes will likely result in a sharper image.  First of all, I would bet that the 17-55 lens, although it has a good reputation (I don't own one) almost certainly is somewhat soft, particularly near the edges of the frame, when shot at the limit of the zoom range (17mm).  Secondly, it is highly unlikely that it is as sharp as possible when shot at f3.5.  Even on the L series of lenses (including primes), noticeable improvement in sharpness is seen as you progressively stop the lens down to at least 2 stops smaller than wide-open, so I'd expect f/5.6 or f/8 to give you a better image<br>

Also, though I can't judge your original from the downsized image yo provided here, it is clear that you can improve the apparent sharpness of the posted image by applying a sharpness filter in Photoshop.  There are of course lots of good suggestions posted already, and the advice is good. <br>

Good luck!</p>

<p>Although it may seem counter intuitive, when resizing (or "downsizing") to a smaller image size, you have to sharpen for the new image size. </p>

[peterridding]

<p>Thanks Xingyuan, I don't really understand your directions about moving the AF point to centre, but I did download the focustestchart and the result, at 100%, is not too bad.  You can certainly read it, but a bit soft.<br>

Chris, I had forgotten that oldie of zooming in and focussing, then zooming back out to take the pic, on manual focus.  It works. But I really want the autofocus if possible. I will use the single point and recompose, but check out this link http://visual-vacations.com/Photography/focus-recompose_sucks.htm for recomposing, it's very interesting. Also, I noticied that my pics of the dreaded front yard were a tiny bit sharper with manual, but they were much better, not blown out or overexposed on manual as they were on AE. Why could this be? The AE is still soft, but I will work in the parameters you and Gary have given. The camera and lens set up certainly doesn't like contrast.<br>

Gary, thanks so much for all that valuable information about the two types of camera, and the hints on the dslr.<br>

Do you want samples of the latest experiments?</p>

[peterridding]

<p>Thank you Richard.</p>

[xingyuan_wang]

<p>Peter, how are these compared to yours? (These are mine.)</p>

<p>***<br>

IS was off on all four tests, I cranked up JPEG sharpening to full (I did, anyhow, before I got an ERR 99, but an off-on reboot solved that. I didn't double-check to see if the reboot undid my settings).<br /> <br /> Auto-focus was was center point; manual focus was through 10x LV with the LV mode set to Live View (rather than quick). Taken at an approximate 45° angle (angle between camera lens and subject plane) on a tripod. Mirror lock-up enabled. <br /> <br /> ***<br /> <br /> Ruler test: center AF point was set to the 6" mark.<br /> <br /> Ruler test -- AF<br /> https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/xwang22/Photography/Ruler%20test%20--%20AF.JPG;<br /> <br /> Ruler test -- MF through 10x LV<br /> https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/xwang22/Photography/Ruler%20test%20--%20MF.JPG;<br /> <br /> ***<br /> <br /> Nikon D70 focus test page: focused on as the instructions said... on the black line in the center of the page. <br /> <br /> Focus test -- AF<br /> https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/xwang22/Photography/Focus%20test%20--%20AF.JPG<br /> <br /> Focus test -- MF<br /> https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/xwang22/Photography/Focus%20test%20--%20MF.JPG<br>

***</p>

<p>What I meant by moving the focus point: the 450D has nine AF points. In complete AF, the camera picks which points it thinks it can focus off of and then uses those to focus. By the suggestions of choosing one specific focus point, we mean that it's possible to select any one of the nine and use that specific point to try to obtain focus. There's a command dial on the top of the camera just behind the shutter. When you push the focus button on the top right corner of the back side of the camera and look through the viewfinder or at the screen, you'll see the nine AF points... rolling the control dial will scroll through the points. The suggestion was to try to the center AF point and do the test that way.<br>

Take a look at page 61 of the manual -- it explains the process with pictures, which I suspect will help quite a bit.</p>

<p>Richard: what you see or suggest from the focus tests in my post?</p>

<p> </p>

[peterridding]

<p>Hi Xingyuan, fully understand now.  You think this will make a difference to the whole scene by focussing on a particular spot within that scene? Do you manually or auto focus generally? Did you read the recompose link? Here is the auto LV of the test. I will then post the manual view. They are nowhere as good as yours with the ruler.</p><div></div>

[peterridding]

<p>and again</p><div></div>

[rainer_t]

<p>The first shot (the autofocused one) shows a noticable amount of frontfocussing. Redo this test with 10 images and see if this behaviour is consistent over all (or at least) most shots or if it varies from front- to back-focus.</p>

<p>The second shot (the manual one) is slightly backfocused. But with the screens in the AF dSLRs its quite hard to aquire proper focus manually.</p>

<p>Also ... redo one of your outside shots ... set the lens to infinity *manually* (and of course switch to MF mode) and take shots at several focal lengths. Compare those to the shots you have. Make sure you use a tripod and shot at f/8 (one shot) and at f/2.8 (another one). Those shots should turn out ok ... the f/8 should be sharper over the complete field than the f/2.8 shots.</p>

<p>If you can, redo the AF test with a different lens. If the focustests show consistent frontfocus and if the manual focused tests of your outside shots are ok, I think the lens+body combination should be sent to Canon for adjustment.</p>

[xingyuan_wang]

<p>Peter, I'm not entirely sure why your image is softer as a whole than mine -- I think the biggest reason could be that the image you shot was at a focal length of 55 -- try zooming in a little less, if possible, and then see if things sharpen up a little bit. Your ISO is pretty low, so there shouldn't be much noise coming in, and you also shot at a high enough shutter speed for the image not to be motion blurred. I'm not sure what else would cause the softness. (Did you leave the sharpening in-camera as default?)<br>

When you shot MF, did you use 10x LV or just what was displayed on the screen? One option you could try is to shoot LV, but zoom in with the same button that you use to zoom in when reviewing a photo (again, this is the same button as the one used for changing the AF point). Pressing that button once will display a 5x magnification; pressing it again displays a 10x magnification. This should make it easier to tell exactly what's in focus and what's not. I suspect that you'll get a better MF result through this option.<br>

When you shot the images, did you try using just the center AF point? The technique would *not* be to focus and recompose -- it would be to center the focus test so that the center AF point is on the black line. You would then just focus and shoot.<br>

As far as your questions go, "making a difference to the scene" is hard to quantify. With a properly focusing camera (which yours appears to be -- mine was out of focus by quite a bit more), it shouldn't necessarily matter which points the camera chooses. Whichever one should be fine. However, for focus *tests*, it's good to use one focus points because it eliminates the possibility of the camera picking a point that isn't really in the same plane as your intended subject. An example would be focusing on a human face -- the camera might think that the ears are a good focus point, so it would pick those points -- but when you look at the pictures afterwards, all you'd see is that the face was soft and the ears would be prickly sharp. Choosing to focus on some part of the face (eyes, for instance) using one focus point would tell the camera not to choose on its own.<br>

I saw the focus and recompose article, but the key takeaway remains true for most aspects of photography -- there are some things that work and others that don't, but few techniques work for (or against) everything. As the author mentioned, if you're shooting across a football field, the effects of F&R would be less seen than if you're doing portrait photography. In landscapes, there should be enough contrast for the camera to pick out an optimal focus without needing to focus and recompose.</p>

[peterridding]

<p>Thanks again for the responses. Rainer, will do those outside tests, but too late tonight, will try it tomorrow. Xingyuan, left the default settings, did the 10x zoom with LV and the centre point. Get back to you later.  Many thanks.</p>

[clgriffin]

<p>Gadzooks! Go find another Canon user or check a local photo club. Ask for help checking your camera out. Put your lens on the other guy's camera and see if you get the same results. Or go to a camera store and ask to compare another camera and lens to yours.<br>

Whatever your problem is, most cameras do not exhibit the same. Your posted images look to me to be soft overall, as if sharpening was not applied. You may have a lemon, but is it lens or is it camera, only putting your lenses on another camera and other's lenses on your camera will tell the tale. If all images come out soft, then it will be both, if one set is better, then you will have the culprit.</p>

[felix_mizioznikov]

<p>could be backfocus and most likely the lens unless you have a camera that has microadjustment I'd suggest returning your lens and going to the store with the focus chart and test 5 lenses and buy the best one with the least amount of variation.</p>

 

[peterridding]

<p>Hello, sorry to be so long replying, but have been getting used to the camera, reading manual, practising, etc. Can't get outside to try "real world" pics as has been raining for days. Have been reading lots of other posts and taking advice from there. I still do think my lens is front focussing, is this a real problem and worthwhile returning the lens? Adding 2 images to show. Many thanks for the patience and help.</p><div></div>

[peterridding]

<p>Back again, focussed on the LG sign. Here is the whole pic. Thanks for any comments.</p><div></div>

[xingyuan_wang]

<p>What were the lighting conditions for the pictures? The second picture was taken at 1/6s (it seems from the EXIF data), which might be a little fast for handheld (even with IS).<br>

Also, what AF did you use?</p>

[peterridding]

<p>It was natural light coming through the window immediately to the left of the phone. I used single point on the LG name. I agree, could be some camera shake there. I really hate to keep on about this, do you think I'm paronoid about the focus bit? Here is another "real life" one. I used f8 @ 1/60 @ 200 ISO @ 55m, AF using single middle point and focussed on the red car.</p><div></div>

[peterridding]

<p>and the crop</p><div></div>

[peterridding]

<p>Thank you everyone for your answers. I will persevere with the lens as I have taken a few sharp pics and believe driver error has a lot to do with it. Will post a few decent pics later on and hope to read some comments about them. Thanks heaps again.</p>

[xingyuan_wang]

<p>Peter, I must admit that I am quite impressed by your decision to persevere -- I am very much in the same boat and look to do the same, but I haven't yet convinced myself that there's nothing wrong.</p>

<p>Hopefully the weather will cooperate this weekend and let me get some photos in...</p>