Sell it all, buy g-10, or keep trying with a new lens?

olive_abrahamson · December 6, 2008

I'm sure the "what lens to buy" question gets old. Sorry. Maybe this is a new twist. Sorry if not. My dilemma:

I have a digital rebel with a 17-80 (dark, heavy) lens that I really, really don't like. Don't know if it is the camera or the lens, but imagine it is mostly the lens.

I'm ready to change my system and am thinking about selling it all and buying a nice little g-10 as it is smaller, seems to do much of what a DSLR can do. Not sure if I am just fed up with my lens and being drawn in by t he idea of a new toy. I got into photography in the high school and college darkroom b/w days--when everyone used a manual film camera with one lens and their legs and brain to compose nice pictures. I then worked at a photo lab and bought a eos film body and enjoyed having a color lab at my disposal, and became pretty adept at western landscape photography. Now now I seem unable to find my way with the digital setup I've got. Not sure why I thought I needed a SLR, aside from I've always had one and like using the viewfinder and having the weight of a "real" camera body in my hands. I did well with my film eos and the nice, compact 28-105 I wish worked well on the crop digital rebel.

My main interest is landscape and nature. I hike all summer long so weight is a concern. I used to photograph a few weddings each summer by am learning to say no, so don't take many people picture aside from t he occasional social gathering. I've grown to hate having the camera awkwardly strapped to my pack's waist belt (in a Lowe TLZ-1) all the time; another reason for the g-10. I'm thinking of the Tamaron 17-55 as a replacement for the grim 17-80. Do people get used to the zoom twisting the "wrong" way? But am also strongly tempted to downsize to a point and shoot for travel and to have something to throw in a pocket on a walk in the woods.

Thoughts?

Thanks... Olive in Montana

tdigi · December 6, 2008

I used tamrons and they are very good. Its no big deal to twist the zoom the opposite way. It is nice to have both SLR and point and click. I think much of what the SLR offers you will not be able to get with a p/s.

For travel check out the Panasonic LX3. much smaller with a wider lens that is f2.0 then the G9/10 ( this is the point and click I am adding )

I do feel you pain. this is a past post about this issue

http://www.photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00RWOo

catchlight · December 6, 2008

A friend of mine gets professional quality results from his Nikon D3 and a stable of Nikon pro lenses.

However, since he bought his Canon G10 six weeks ago, I don't think he's shot a frame with his superb Nikon

gear.

Like you, he is a hiker (and XC skier and snowshoer), so weight and bulk are issues. Not with the G10, though

which he takes everywhere, usually with a lightweight Gorillapod, and brings back super landscape and macro shots,

and prints them up to 11"x17" with flawless results.

The only things you would lose with a G10 compared to a DSLR are optimal ability to cover sports and other fast

action, and the capability to use shallow DOF to create a smooth bokeh in portraits and other shots. If those factors

don't matter, the G10 might be exactly what you need.

I shoot with Canon pro bodies, but will be getting a G10, possibly in the post Christmas sales, because I'm so

impressed with the IQ and convenience it offers.

juans eye · December 6, 2008

An SLR can't compete with the portability and stealth of a point and shoot. IQ may suffer a little bit, but really, I see so much first class fine art prints with mucho grain that I wonder what's the big deal. Try out a few, and if that is your calling, GO FOR IT!

I have an SLR for speed and IQ. I keep a P&S handy in the car all the time.

/bing

anders_carlsson · December 6, 2008

It's difficult to advice whether you should go for a G10 (or perhaps something else) rather than keeping your DSLR. The G10 can certainly do a lot and will help your photography if it's the kind of camera that you'll actually bring along.

Having said that, there are lots of things a G10 won't do. You will, for instance, have difficulties reproducing the nice out-of-focus effects that you can easily create with any DSLR. Also, having worked with and printed my "old" Digital Rebel (300D) files recently, comparing them with files from much more recent models, I have to say that the results are still absolutely fantastic. The G10 has great resolution but I doubt that its files will match your DSLR's at higher ISOs as long as the printing size does not really demand those extra pixels.

Bottom line: It all depends on your style and photographic profile. For sure, sell your lens if you don't like it and get a new one. Perhaps an ultra-wide zoom? That will take you to territories no compact ever goes to with any success.

g dan mitchell · December 6, 2008

I ease of use and small size are a big concern, and you won't print _really_ large prints, and you are happy with the focal length range of the G10... all reports are that it is fine camera. Do read up on it and make sure it meets your needs and that you understand its limitations and how or whether they apply to you.

The DSLR makes sense really only if some of the following apply: size/weight aren't a concern, you have a need for using more than one lens, you make rather large prints and you are picky about print quality, you are familiar with and enjoy the form factor of the DSLR.

Dan

tomwatt · December 6, 2008

Since they were introduced, I always made it a practice to keep one of Canon's Digital Elph's handy... neglible extra weight. It's hard to argue against the convenience, but I think I would be a little hard pressed to replace the SLRs with any point and shoot... especially since I can always dial the SLR to P mode and point and shoot happily without giving it further thought. As far as getting used to something that seems to twist or set the wrong direction for you... in my experience, that never goes away... and in moments of excitement (just when you need the blasted dial/ring to go right the first time) you'll go the wrong way everytime. I wonder why you wouldn't just pick up a prime and reach back into your past shooting experience to work with the camera that way for a while?

John Crowe · December 6, 2008

You said 17-80, is that the Canon EF 17-85/4-5.6 IS lens?

I can't even find a Tamron 17-55, but if you mean Tamron 17-50/2.8 it will be not much better than what you have.

I might be more helpful if I knew what two specific lenses you are talking about.

zafar1 · December 6, 2008

G10 has more rugged body and some more buttons, as well as raw files. However you will get comparable picture quality from other Canon P&S as well. Ken Rockwell tested both G10 and SD880 and loved SD880 for even smaller size and bigger LCD.

I tried Canon SX110IS recently and liked it very much for its compact size and full manual (and shall I say very easy) controls, and very good colors and image quality.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zafar1/sets/72157610757583691/

Of course, the quality applies to base ISO and degrades very quickly as ISO increases (true for G10 as well). However I would say that DIGIC IV cameras may have somehwat better ISO performance.

steve_crist · December 6, 2008

I don't have the G10 - I have the G9 (12mp). I also have a 5D with several L lenses. More often than not I use my G9 when fast action is not required and I'm just doing some casual shooting. It's light, has IS built-in and has a decent zoom range (35-210). Shoot under ISO 400 and results are great. The high ISO noise and lack of depth of field can somewhat be corrected in Photoshop. I've even used it for indoor portraits using the ST-E2 and multiple off-camera flash units. What I'd like to see in the next generation of semi-pocket cameras is the ability to shoot faster action. It would be great to have the option to say shoot slower at high mp and be able to switch to lower mp but in fast mode.

catchlight · December 6, 2008

Olive, there's a thorough, impartial review of the G10 here:

<a href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong10/">http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong10/</a>

squareframe · December 6, 2008

Olive, it really does depend on your photography requirements. I must say, like a broken-record lately, that since I bought this G-10 a week ago, I haven't touched my 40D or Hasselblads. this little camera is a hoot . imagine, built-in Image-Stabilization , 28mm equivalent lens (though slow), LCD to die for, blah blah blah. I too, got tired of lugging a heavy camera around. so many applications where a small and light camera fits the bill. in this respect i don't there is a better camera than the G-10. it's built very, very well. and I'll disagree with those that think smaller is better. the G-10 is the perfect balance between size, ruggedness, and usefulness. it fits the hand perfectly .. smaller and it would be cumbersome I think, and it has most obviously been designed by working photographers. all the good bits are there! it won't win speed contests, of fire off a gazillion frames per minute ... so what. that is, if that isn't your desire. living on a boat and doing sailboat related photography, I can tell you it is a marvel to have full-time Image Stabilization on, viewable on the LCD in real-time, and embracing the very odd notion of hand-holding at 1/15 second. did I mentioned it's a hoot ?

cheers ...

daniel taylor

henrik_lauridsen · December 7, 2008

Olive, how about trading your current zoom for a nice prime, a 35mm or 28mm? It will be lighter, faster, and you will be back to those joyous years of zooming with your feet :-). Or, get a 18-55 kit zoom, they don't weigth much either (but are not that fast).

I have the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 , and it is not really a problem that it zooms the "wrong" way. For you the issue is more likely to be weight.

We Just go a G9 (big discount since the G10 is here) as a supplement to our 400D. It is nice and small, easy to carry around and everything, but I will never in a million years part with my dSLR. The digital P&S's are simply too slow for my liking. For landscapes etc it is propably fine, but in every situation where you need to be able to take a quick shot, it is simply too slow. You should also consider battery life - the G10 will run a battery flat much faster than your Rebel.

If I were packing for a hiking trip, I would propably take my 400D with the 18-55 kit zoom (as I do not own any of the primes mentioned above). It is bigger than the G9/10, but not a whole lot heavier.

marknagel · December 7, 2008

The Dpreview review seemed to like the Panasonic LX3 better for IQ. The 2.5x zoom (24mm to 60mm) was the only complaint. IF it had a longer tele end I'd order it ASAP, but I'd guess the IQ would suffer.

m

nhut-nguyen · December 7, 2008

I agree, sell it all and buy a G10 now. Use it for a while so you can get over the hatred of big DSLRs. When you find the limitation of Point & Shoot in the future it's time to rekindle the love. Seriously sometimes we just need to take a break!

olive_abrahamson · December 7, 2008

Thank you all for your input and understanding and patience with of my silly little dilemma!

I did misspeak—the Tamaron Lens I was looking at is the 17-50. My interest in photography doesn’t extend to equipment … probably very obviously.

I will be putting the grim lens on consignment and purchase a nice a point and shoot (hopefully at some wonderful post-holiday sale price), and am leaning towards holding onto the camera body rather than being “rash” and selling it all. I have a long furlough from work around the corner and plan on giving myself silly little photography assignments, daily, to see if I can spark something creative and narrow down what I most interested in these days, photographically, when I have less on my plate. Then I will make a move towards one lens or another.

Thank you again,

Olive

catchlight · December 7, 2008

Here are links to G10 shots and a few comments on the camera by my friend, who usually shoots with a Nikon D3 and pro lenses:

<div>Here is the link to a few of my G10 shots: <a href="http://public.fotki.com/TimPenney/hiking-trips/canon-g10-ice-and-s/">http://public.fotki.com/TimPenney/hiking-trips/canon-g10-ice-and-s/</a></div>

<div>a few more here as well: <a href="http://public.fotki.com/TimPenney/hiking-trips/first-snow-november/">http://public.fotki.com/TimPenney/hiking-trips/first-snow-november/</a></div>

<div>The G10 is certainly a nice camera to use as long as it is kept to </div>

<div>about 80 to 100 ISO although I have seem some results at much higher </div>

<div>ISO that still look pretty useable.</div>

<div>The best sharpness is at f2.8 up </div>

<div>to f4.0 and at f8 the lens produces too much diffraction. The IS </div>

<div>allows for shots as low as 1/6 second without a tripod or monopod.</div>

<div>It is certainly not great for every type of photography but as a small </div>

<div>camera to carry around on my hiking and snowshoeing trips it would be </div>

<div>hard to beat. The edge to edge sharpness is good and there appears to </div>

<div>be very little CA.</div>

bob_osullivan · December 7, 2008

I have a fairly new G9 that I was going to put up on ebay. Let me know if you're interested bob_osullivan@sullyfoto.com and I can sell it to you directly.

I miss the lack of control over DOF and high ISO which is why I'm selling it. I'ts nearly new.

dmanthree · December 7, 2008

Not sure how you'll feel about the G10, but I had one, and sold it. I was very disappointed with it, even when compared with the G9. Noise, lack of detail, soft corners, it had it all. I'll stick with SLRs and their much better picture quality.

squareframe · December 7, 2008

> I'll stick with SLRs and their much better picture quality. sure you will .. until you tire of lugging the camera and lens around like a brick. or when you realize the images you missed because you sold your stealthy, light, little camera you could slip into your coat pocket. or you forgot how well the built-in IS worked or those cute movies of your kids. or the built-in ND filtering or the .... it has its place .. just not every place dt

dmanthree · December 8, 2008

Daniel,

The G10 isn't a pocketable camera, not hardly. And I rarely wear a coat...

And the real problem is I didn't take it with me because I didn't like the images it produced. It just wasn't for me.

squareframe · December 8, 2008

I guess I have big pockets then ... or buy large coats. or simply think the G-10 is the perfect size. the SLR's and lenses are generally too bulky, and the ones my mother-in-law uses are far too small to work with. and lastly, the G-10 just fits my way of thinking and photographing. having exposure compensation buried in a menu never made sense to me .. and now, I have a real dedicated knob. that seems to define my threshold of pain for P&S cameras.

and honestly .. I am finding the image quality to exceed my expectations. then again, I never expected to print 44" prints from my G-10 files.

another example .. I just walked around the marina using the built-in ND filtering and macro mode. 1" focusing .. at the touch of a button (ok .. two touches). is the end-result perfect? hardly. is it a nice image that would never be taken with my DSLR or Hasselblad, just from the hassel hassel-factor of extension tubes and filters. you bet .. and for that reason, I feel my $434 was well spent. I just see the price on Amazon has dropped a few pesos more. and .. I got a free Epson C88+ printer with the deal.

so yeah ... I'm a pig in mud.

cheers ..

daniel

w_t1 · December 8, 2008

I love my g9 for travel and general carry camera, when I don't want to lug an slr or 4x5 :). Sure the image quality is different than slr, everyone should know that by now.

One thing I love about the g9 is the time lapse video mode, I use it all the time, on tripod or in high rise window sill...Unfortunately they took this option out of the g10, unless I am mistaken. I don't know what is up with camera engineers.

squareframe · December 8, 2008

> I don't know what is up with camera engineers.

I'll tell you what I think they were thinking ... that they stumbled on a substantive design, replete with features aligned with photographers out there taking photos .. and decided that time-lapse video had to go to make room to meet objectives that photographers required and asked for. such as a dedicated exposure-compensation, ND filtering, blah blah blah.

you want it all .. but this is a photographers camera. it doesn't zip along at 10-frames/second, and fares poorly at ISO1600 compared to bona-fide DSLR's. however .. if your interests as a photographer align with making images that might never have been made due to the limitations of 'better ' cameras, then the G-10 might just suit you well. in fact .. it might just suit you bodaciously well.

I think they were sitting in the local pubs drinking sake, and saying .. if they want time-lapse video, let them buy our latest video camera. if they are interested in still-photography, and the most bang for the buck, let them appreciate what we worked so hard to offer them. and with that .. the sake flowed and the buzz lingered.

daniel taylor

alan_myers · December 10, 2008

Hi,

I was playing around with a friend's new G10 the other day, helping him learn to set a custom white balance with it (he was complaining about the color it produced in the presets or AWB).

It's a nice little camera. Big LCD, lot's of potential for manual controls, full compatibility with the Canon flash system, shares BP511A batteries with many of the DSLRs, can produce RAW files, and more.

Like any modern compact digital, it's limited in terms of ISO, speed of use, how shallow bokeh it can do and in how large you can actually enlarge from it.

I was going to mention the G9, too, as a good alternative. It's got a lot of the same features as the G10. You can probably get a pretty good deal on one.

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