Ok.... pricing.... 'friends' involved. Advice needed.

[photo_dark]

In the last two years i've gone from doing a lot of favors for people for free, to shooting about a half dozen

full weddings by myself (all VERY successful so far), a fair bit of (well paid) commercial-type or advertisement

work for various clients who are now repeat clients, and lots of headshot-type stuff for a few individuals (all

work has been VERY successful quality wise - all clients have been very happy with my deliverable quality vs.

price so far)

 

Part (1) of my question now is, what rate do you typically charge out for friends? The ugly problem of giving

things away for free is that although you get great recommendations to PAYING people, all those original

customers who got a GREAT deal now expect that same great deal, even though my overhead has gone up dramatically

due to equipment costs, and pure administrative time. Further, I am finally on the verge of doing photography &

design (basically a marketing and design firm) full time together with my wife.

 

So, as a reference, I usually charge about $45 / hour on site + $45 / hour post-processing. So, for (say) a

specialized family portrait it would be a 1/2 hour consultation, 1-2 hours of shooting, 1-2 hours of post

processing, an hour of administration/follow up, and whatever the cost for the prints is plus 10% of the total

print cost.

 

Therefore, given a 1-2 hour shoot, i usually charge between $130 - $175 (there are always some variables). But

the problem is that good people who used to get the same thing for free or for $25-$50 now balk at the price tag.

 

So Part (2) of my question is: do you ditch clients who balk, give friends some kind of a discount, or do your

best to help them out with different things to maintain good relationships... Where they ever really clients in

the first place?

 

Of course option 3 can't go on forever, so I have to draw the line somewhere... The idea right now is that i'm

busy with photography work, but not so busy that i can't afford to do some 'free' work for certain people on the

side.... The real dilemma is.... Should I? Is it really a good idea in the long run to constantly give out

discounts or free work to people?

 

Suggestions? Personal experience?

 

As a side note (speaking from p.net experience) Please refrain from insulting my abilities as a photographer,

i've been a member of this forum for a while now, and have been shooting on a hobbiest -> semi-professional level

for more than a few years now :)

[silverdae]

I'm not sure how to advise on making the transition from near-free to comparable pricing, but we offer a straight

discount (say 20%) to friends. They have to be close friends. Otherwise, we offer say a few free proofs to the

social friends. We always hand out a straight price list to people who think they are "friends" but aren't so

that we're straight forward with people. Its touchy to make that transition, but I would be honest. Tell them

that as your business has now taken form, you are now offering this certain discount to repeat customers. My

opinion is that is they balk, they aren't interested in being clients and like far too many people, want

something for free (or close to it).

[darylann]

This is such a touchy subject. I've had some of the worst experiences when trying to give good friends a deal. In fact, I now do everything possible to avoid getting hired by friends who might expect special considerations! I lightheartedly tell them that my feelings wouldn't be hurt if they asked someone else to do their kid's wedding, for instance, so I can enjoy the festivities as a guest instead! For portrait work, I also try to find any excuse not to work with friends. This is just me, but I just got tired of being taken advantage of and having them expect even more "freebies" after getting a major break in my usual pricing. I don't expect them to give me freebies from their business or where they work. We're all trying to make a living in our jobs and businesses, and I believe this should be totally separate from our private/social life.

[photo_dark]

That's kinda what i've been thinking to... For example, a client wants one picture for use in a christmas card... that means a photo shoot, some editing, administration, card design etc. I said photography would be $90, card design another $45 or so, and then the cost of printing. I didn't think it was unreasonable considering it would probably end up being more than just 3 hours of work all said and done.

 

I do agree that people who balk arn't really interested in being 'clients' anyways. Unfortunately, some people just always want things for free.

 

On the flipside, some clients that i've done free work for are now very happy clients who don't balk at full price... Those are typically the ones I place priority on.

[a._j._jacobs]

I've been doing the "free" for friends thing for a little bit now too, and they've recommended me to their friends, and I did

them free too, because I'm building up my portfolio. But now the hubby says I have to start charging, but it's hard because

as in your case, my referrals have heard through their friends that I did their photos for free and they want the same thing,

but it has to end somewhere. I agree with the others, maybe just give a small discount or free prints/whatever for those

people. If they don't want to pay then they don't get your services, it's the same with any other business, right? :) Now I

just have to work on practicing this...;)

[steve_leblanc]

I'm in the computer industry. I work in the big systems stuff. It is incredible what gall some people have when it

comes to expecting me to either get stuff for them for free, or be their 24X7 service guy. I've had people call me up

and say "get your butt over here, I can't read my e-mail" guy. WTF?!

 

These same people are electricians, auto mechanics, carpenters etc. They would driop dead if I said, hey can you

put new brakes in my car next week if I bring over the parts?

 

...yeah right.. Give it a try and see what they say? They'[ll stop asking for freebies real fast.

[john_h.1]

I gather you stopped sending out signals that you will work for free (six full weddings?!? Wow.) You will still have the work for free or dirt cheap reputation haunting you for awhile. Explain to anyone seeking such work that you did that for so long and for so many that you just can't keep up with the demand for that anymore and have stopped doing that. If you so desire, you could offer a ten per cent discount or something like that for select 'freinds' or family. You could offer a deep discount after a sucessfully completed full price referal perhaps but you are in the better position to know if that makes sense or will cuase problems. Don't get wishy washy. Be polite yet direct.

[jaybee]

I'm a CPA, not a photographer, but I've found out that certain things remain constant regardless of what industry you

are discussing. Two of those things involve doing work for friends and doing work for free.

 

My mentor as a CPA told me very early on that, "Friends make lousy clients, but clients make great friends". Mr.

Stroud taught me a lot, and nothing is more accurate than that. I have a group of life-long friends to whom I give a

discount. I charge each of the the same fee for their tax return. I haven't changed my fee in the twenty-plus years I've

done their returns. Each of them knows that they pay the same thing. No one else gets a discount.

 

In my previous career, I worked in my parents' bridal salon. Early in that business, we went to a seminar and heard a

speaker give another piece of advice that I've never forgotten. He said, "Never do anything for free. If you do one thing

for free, your customer will expect more for free." This, too, has proved to be an accurate statement.

 

Finally, I've found that anyone who balks at your quoted fee probably will not wind up being a long-term client or good

source of referral business.

 

Good luck. I know you'll come to a good resolution for your dilemma.

[david_henderson]

There seems to be a common thought in start-up businesses that if you charge a lot less than the "going" price at the outset to get a client base then you'll get people to pay more once they have come to appreciate the quality of your work.

 

Believe me this doesn't often work. The people who pay $25 for a service are entirely different to those that will pay $150 for essentially the same type of output and are unlikely to travel that road with you, friends or not. Its a bad policy and its something you should disentangle as soon as you can before you have any more people with a legacy of getting work free or at joke costs. Of the suggestions above, I would favour a standardised "friends discount" which you can apply to your friends, relatives, or even frequently returning customers at will. That aside I'd have a printed price list which I'd be sure to hand over, mail or email to every enquiry to avoid surprises later - and of course when quoting to a "friend" you indicate at that point that a special 20% discount would be applied.

 

The other thing I'd do is to try and simplify the relationship between time and money. If people are overtly paying by the hour then they'll resent your cup of coffee, and get their watch out if you should go off to the mens room. I'd sell a fixed price product which has an implicit time allowance. If the client asks you to do something which is likely to take materially longer, then say at the point of asking and get their acceptance. Unless they do then I guess I think that a few minutes here or there on shoot or processing time should be at your risk not the clients, and I think you'll find that you get better referrals and bigger smiles from people who are being invoiced what they expect, not being charged extra because the PS work took you a little longer.

[kirsten jette]

I suspect that I might be in your position in about a year as I need to start hitting up some friends/family who really don't like having their

picture taken to be my test subjects, er, models! I'll be lucky if I don't have to pay them, and maybe I should.

 

I've read a couple things on this subject. One approach is to always give them an invoice with your real charges on it just like it was a

paid gig. Then put in a line item discount for something that makes the balance on it zero. For instance, you bill them for $100 sitting

fee, $50 travel fees, and $50 retouching fees. (Big round numbers, my math isn't so hot). So their sub-total ends up being $200. Now

add a line for "Portfolio building pro bono number 1 of 5" or "Immediate Family discount" of -100% or -$200 or whatever you want to do.

This accomplishes a couple things. First, it lets friends/family know what you usually charge clients and how it's broken down. Second,

and most importantly, it restricts the discount to a specific group, ie, family. There's a REASON why they got the discount, it's not just

on there because you're a nice guy. And last, it reminds them that you are a business. This obviously works best when you do it from

the very start.

 

The other tactic, which should be used in conjunction with the first, is to make it a barter. Like others have suggested, your friends

would probably get the point if you asked them to perform their profession for free on the weekend. So have them give you their

published price list then trade services for like amounts. Again, still do the invoice with the full billing, it'll keep your accountant happy. If

they don't have a service you want, barter for something more practical, but make sure that there is a significant time commitment

involved. Maybe X hours of child care, or an afternoon of remodeling help. Be honest, tell them that this is the only way you can do pro

bono or deeply discounted work without being flooded by requests. I'm the last of 9 children, there are 17 nieces and nephews now. Can

you imagine what I'm going to run into?

 

I think the hardest thing is to realize that there are times when it's appropriate to shoot for free. I'm very excited to shoot my nephew's

wedding for free next fall. There will be an invoice for a normal wedding with a 100% discount for "the first of the Grandchildren to get

married". Not everyone can afford the services that we offer, and with the current economy it's hard to justify any expense that isn't food

or shelter (clothing doesn't even make the cut). But that doesn't mean that they can't do something of like value for you in return.

As far as clients who started with you when you were cheap, I really don't know. I haven't put quite as much thought into that yet.

 

Good luck with it all!

 

Kirsten

[captureme]

My closest friends = Free

There Friends 20% less

Referred by friend of friend if they mention who I will give said person discount if they return.

At some point you have to say that's enough this is what I charge & if people like it they will pay. & they do.

[bobcossar]

My policy has worked for years.........I either charge normal rates, or I do the job free..No deals to cloud the issues.....regards, Bob

[lily_cao]

<p><em>I agree with Daryl.</em></p>