Leica M4 - first production batch - is this a collectors item?

[stindphoto]

Like probably many other people I wanted a Leica M. I've discussed this with myself for more than 10 years. I've gone through the pros and

cons over and over again while shooting fixed lens rangefinders from the 60s, 70s and early 80s - Yashica, Minolta, Olympus and Konica

alongside Nikon F, FE, FM, F2 and newer autofocus film and digital bodies. But the Leica stayed in my mind - and eventually I bought a

chrome M4 and a chrome 35mm Summicron ASPH. Now with this camera and lens in my hands I'm sure I did right in buying into the M

system.

 

I bought it recently from a guy who also had a black paint M4. I know the black ones are more sought after, but I prefer the chrome ones.

The seller knew this as well, which is why his asking price for the black M4 was 5 (five) times higher then for the chrome body I bought.

The only thing I focused on, was to find a good condition chrome body with the brass gears.

 

Out of curiosity I searched the web for further detalis on the M4. I went to Stephen Gandy's site and checked the serial. Leica introduced

the M4 in 1967, but Leica produced 3,000 pieces in the first M4 batch - serial range 1175001-1178000 with production starting on the 28th

of November 1966. My M4 falls in this batch with serial 1177803. This has made me wonder. whether my M4 is something more than a

"regular" M4 in the eyes and hands of a collector. It even has the seal intact. I ask this, because the M4 is a user to me, but if it holds

more value than this, I would consider trading it. I love this little great camera. But whether I use this early sample or a later made one isn't

going to change anything for me.

[david_f._stein]

Why not ask Mr. Gandy. If he offers to buy it ...

[richard_meyers]

Well, if you had SN: 1175001 maybe. But the seller probably knew whether it

was a collectible or not and priced it accordingly. I'd suggest getting it overhauled

by Sherry, DAG or Leica USA since it's been 40+ years and then enjoy it. There's

nothing quite like an M4, IMHO.

[kens]

I think collectors tend to favor the "last" batch rather than the first batch, so I doubt you would see much premium for yours. Unless of course you promoted it well and some buyer bought into it. Also, it would have to be an absolutely mint, spotless example. Otherwise it's a nice curiosity and worth more to you as a user. Get it serviced and use it for what it was intended. The M4 is a great camera.

[mark_bergman5]

My first M4, bought in sometime in the ''70's had the serial number of 1175007, the sixth one made. it was my "spy" camera -:).

 

Anyway I used it alot and sold it in the '80's to buy another one. It was well maintained, worked great, but was definitely a beater. I sometimes wonder who has it now. I never considered it collectible. There were no real changes in the M4 production (unlike the M3 and M2) since it was perfect from the get-go. A Leica has to be either really rare, or semi rare and mint, to be collectible.

[exabetal]

Ken said "I think collectors tend to favor the "last" batch rather than the first batch".

 

So does that make my late Wetzlar chrome M4 (one of the last hundred) more valuable than an average M4?

[orvillerobertson]

As far as I know, some collectors will pay slightly more for very early and late batch Leicas that are within, say, 10, of the

known serial number outside ranges. The models that collectors really go after, other than special commemorative releases,

are pre-production models and those used by famous photographers. Ofcourse all of this has to be well documented and

submitted along with the cameras. Further, the pre-production batches must be in perfect or near perfect condition while the

famous photographer cameras must be really beat up to show intense use.

[michael_a._shapiro]

As soon as a camera goes into collectors' hands, it goes out of circulation, and the less cameras are in circulation, the less tools we have to do our work, and the more we have to pay for them. Don't pander to collectors.

[paul_neuthaler]

It's a great M4 but no more valuable than other chrome M4's. Use it, enjoy it, put a 35mm 1:2.8 Summaron on it!

[vincenzo_maielli]

Yes, but is more still better a great shooting camera! Sorry for my very bad english...

 

Ciao.

[stindphoto]

Thank you for your responses. I must admit that I'm actually pleased that your responses indicate that even a first batch

M4 isn't more special or valuable than another M4. As I initialy wrote, I bought the camera as a user and because I

thought the price was very good at around a third of the current street price here in Denmark. I will probably send the

camera to Solms for a CLA and to have new strap lugs fitted.

 

Michael - I agree with your view on collecting versus using. Many cameras have had their times and are less uasble

today - the M Leicas definately not belonging to that group. I have a lot of cameras - but most of them were more or less

saved from being thrown out like the two Olympus 35SP I'm happy enough to have and use!

 

Paul - I bought a 35mm 2.0 Summicron ASPH after a lot of research - but my final decision to go for the ASPH was a link

posted here at photo.net comparing the version IV (latest pre ASPH) to the ASPH. This comparison shoved shallover

depth of field of the ASPH at f:2 which I prefer and actually better bokeh with no tendency for lines to appear double in

the out of focus areas. This apparently contradict the generel impression of the ASPH version. Of less importance to me is the better

resistance to flare. Unfortunately I cant find that link again.