cheap used 4X5 field for architecture; need graflok back

[bob_estremera]

Here's a quick question I hope someone can help with:

 

I love architectural photography and do it digitally now. Lots of obvious shortcomings.

I'd like to know what is the most common, lighweight used 4X5 I can find to tote around New York City with.

Need a graflok back.

 

A field camera with versatile movements seems to be a good first step because a rail is just too cumbersome to

walk around with. Unless there's some small little gem of a rail setup I'm not aware of.

 

Also, what are my lens options as wide angle will be very desireable.

 

Thanks, somebody.

 

Bob

[bob_salomon]

Why do you need a Graflok back?

[bob_estremera]

I've looked at several options to mount a DSLR to devices that 'simulate' view camera movements, ie; Cambo X2, etc. But I've been reading in these and other forums that these options have severe limitations regarding LF lens coverage on a DSLR sensor.

One company (CameraFusion) I found has a back, requiring Graflok, to which a ground glass adapter is placed for composition and focusing. The DSLR can then be attached in place of the ground glass attachment by way of a calibrated mount and multiple images can be taken across the exact plane of the ground glass.

Kind of a long story but that's the idea.

 

Also, I'm seeing that a field camera is not a good option, but some kind of compact rail is going to be the better option.

 

Thanks for your patience, Bob

[leicaglow]

Bob, I've thought about building something like that but didn't know how to start. I like it, but dang that's expensive. There are tons of field cameras out there. I have three 4x5 cameras, and my old Crown Graphic is the one that gets used the most. It has a Graflok back they they're pretty cheap. Regular wide angle: Get a 90mm. The 75's are dynamite and have some good movements. 65mm are very wide and easy to get a hold of.

[ilkka]

Shenhao has a Graflok back and has a lot of movements, though the standard bellows is a bit stiff with short lenses.

[colin carron]

Are you aware of the Toho?

 

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

 

They are available from time to time but still not very common.

[bob_estremera]

Yeah Michael, the camera fusion is some bucks alright, but seems to be the ONLY option to get ALL of the benefits of 4X5 by imaging across the same plane as the ground glass.

 

I'll take all of your suggestions and do some more research.

 

Thanks everybody, Bob

[indrek_r_nkla]

The biggest problem in this setup for architecture is the inability to provide wide-angle capacity. The additional 45mm that the SLR body accommodates makes the usage of lenses which would need lesser distance between lens and image plane impossible.

 

The other issue is vignetting due to the SLR camera front opening but this is overcome by this sliding adapter and multiple shots.

 

You should try with a monorail and bag bellows, which would allow the standards to touch each other. I doubt that a field camera bellows would allow to go close enough. And if You can not wideangle, You are out of architecture for most cases.

 

Any way, before You purchase anything, You should calculate those distances and angles.

[drew bedo]

Seferal years ago (2005-'06?) View Camera Magazine ran two articles about modifying a speed Graphic for front swing and tilt. The mods were simple. The cameras are relativly cheap and rugged enough when folded to lug around just about anywhere.....and its got a Graflok back.

 

But...what about a Tilt-Shift lense on a DSLR?

 

Cheers,

 

Drew Bedo

[bob_salomon]

Better go take a look at what Wista makes to use a DSLR, or a 35mm SLR with view camera lenses with full view camera

movements. Unlike what you are trying to do it will not vignette with movements.

[rob_tucher3]

I know this is a bit off topic, but if you're considering such photography in NYC it sounds as if it will be tripod work. Be forwarned that technically speaking, you have to get a permit from the Mayor's Office of Film and Photography or some such thing. All work from a tripod is considered professional and all pro work must be permitted. Cops tend to be too busy to bother but now and then one does give a ticket.

[d_g]

adapting a Dslr isn't a solution for architecture (not wide angle friendly !)

 

You should shoot film instead... and for architecture shots, i prefer arca swiss stuff !

Monorail, but fold nicely !

[jimsimmons]

KEH Cameras in Atlanta has a cheap Badger M-1 listed. It's a lightweight monorail that would work well for architecture, in that it has excellent movements capability. I don't know that Badgers are still made, and doubt that very many were made anyway, but you should call them up and ask some questions about it to see if it meets your needs. There's a photo of one here:

 

http://www.prairienet.org/b-wallen/BN_Photo/LFN/LFGallery.htm

[jim_galli4]

A common Cambo but with the 9 inch rail and bag bellows. A 90mm f4.5 Rodenstock would be stellar. Recessed lensboards are common for these and the bag bellows is a delight. All the up down side side movement will stay parellel fairly nicely. And it's cheap!

[indrek_r_nkla]

http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/lenses.html

 

Here You can check the film-to-flange distances. When I look at the current product of Your reference, it tends to add extra tubus between the back and the SLR which is visible through the gap between the SLR grip and the bayonet base plate. The grip itself adds 15 or so more mm to the 46 of Nikon body. Then the tubus another 10mm. So You would need to be pretty close with the lens to the back standard. Which prohibits the movements as the standard edges would collide. I would find 90 mm lens too long for NYC, Manhattan at least.

 

The other thing that I found wrong with this kind of setup for field work was the amount of dust that the system tends to suck in and end up on sensor which normally would be protected by the lens.

 

I am not actually trying to turn down the idea, just to point out the possibilities of disappointment. And if those guys stay enthusiastic about this kind of development they would some day end up with something suitable for our kin.

 

I quote the CameraFusion homepage:

 

Architecture – 135 mm and shorter. Does not work well. However we have a second product in development to address the ultra wide and wide angle focal lengths.

[bob_estremera]

These have all been great directions and suggestions.

And Rob, I do remember reading about the tripod in NYC. My understanding that there is a time limit that applies to using a tripod. I'll look into that further.

 

Thanks again all,

Bob

[johnmarkpainter]

Bob,

 

The Shen Hao with Bag Bellows is well made, cheap and light.

 

BUT

 

Tripod/4x5 and Film holders and Darkcloth in NYC?

If you will give up movements, you could shoot a "Fotoman" with a monopod....

http://www.fotomancamera.com/product_list.asp?id=335

[w_wachusea]

Why won't a Tilt-Shift lens on the DSLR Do the job? What about a wide angle lens on the DSLR and stitch the images in PS?

 

I may not understand the project. In what way is this project technically unique; why is a creative solution is required to achieve your vision?

[vick_vickery]

Bob, I just noticed that KEH has a used 4x5 Cambo listed for sale at $250...a good buy from a retailer and a company that stands behind what they sell if my experience is any guide. While this is a rail camera rather than a field camera, it has all the movement you could ever need, parts (lensboards, bag bellows, rails of various lengths) are readily available all over the place (including eBay) at reasonable prices, and, in my experience, its not that hard to take along for architectural work (the overwhelming majority of which is near a street!). I've liked working with mine, and have never felt it was a problem to have along when shooting architectural subjects. The backs are universal backs which accept all Graflok accessories.

[kelly_flanigan1]

One might want to consider the cost of the lens too; since a WA costs more than the camera body with LF.

[Glenn McCreery]

You might want to consider a Linhof Kardan Standard, which has a Graflok back. Although it is a monorail, it is lightweight and compact and sets up quickly (quicker than my Linhof Technika III). I often use the camera for hiking, containing it in a backpack with homemade fiberglass box to hold the camera. The standard bellows work well with 90mm and even 75mm wide-angle lenses as well as my 150mm Symmar-S. The main advantage of the Technika for field use is that it is more rugged and compact and does not have the monorail protruding from my pack (although the monorail is protected by a fiberglass extension of the box that contains the camera). For architecture, a monorail is certainly preferable to a field camera when you consider cost, movements, and, if you use a number of those movements, set-up time.

[bob_salomon]

You would probably be better off looking for a Linhof Kardan JBL, Kardan M, Kardan E or a Kardan re. They all can take

very wide lenses as well as longer ones. Much wider then the Standard that could only take lenses down to 65mm. They all

share basically the same rail but since the Standard did not have a removable bellows the other models are even more

convenient in the field. Since the standards on the Kardan Standard are made from stamped metal rather then castings as

the others the Standard is slightly lighter.