Why not light meter in body of SQ-Ai and/or ETRSi?

[audun_sjoeseth1]

Both these models have TTL-flash and some electonics to transfer

information between meterprism and lens. Why havn't Tamron also put

in a ligtmeter in the body (both spot and senterweigted). Som people

prefer not to use a prismefinder and don't want to depend on a hand-

held meeter. They have to buy a more expensive Hasselblad 203/205 or

a Rolleflex 6003/6008.

 

Have Tamron plans to upgrade the SQ-Ai and/or ETRSi?

[art_haykin]

>>>"Have Tamron plans to upgrade the SQ-Ai and/or ETRSi?"<<<<<I was under the impression that Bronica made these two cameras.

[pns]

>>I was under the impression that Bronica made these two cameras

 

Not anymore, Tamron recently bought Bronica.

About the question, I have no idea if they will do so.

[audun_sjoeseth1]

OK, Bronica. (Doesn't Tamron own and manufacture both the cameras and the lenses named Bronica?)

[david_henderson]

There's little point speculating on this. They just don't. I imagine it's because some of their users prefer to use a handheld meter (i do for starters) and they're reluctant to prejudice their price point by including features that many people don't need or want. Note that the most popular Hasselblad model doesn't have a meter either.

 

Art Haykin. Bronica are owned by Tamron.

[art_haykin]

I confess that one got by me. I've never owned a Bronica or aTamron lens. Live and learn.

[lawrence_title]

Audun,

 

Given your previous posting: "203FE, 503CW/CXi, 6003p/6008 or

SQ-Ai ..." last month, I can see where you are coming from.

Like you, I was primarily using a 35mm SLR with a built-in light

meter with evaluative (matrix) metering. So while I was prepared

to slow down with MF, I wasn't ready to carry a handheld meter

like professional photographers. So I similarly questioned why

the SQ-Ai didn't have a built-in camera light meter, especially

where it had electronic coupling with the lens and film back.

Some have even questioned in this forum why the 500 series

blads still lacks coupling and perhaps a built-in meter.

However, given the way the market is moving towards the

professional/prosumer digital SLRs I suspect we will see less

R&D towards the 6x6 cameras. (Of course, the new 6008AF

argues against this. ) There is little financial incentive for Bronica

or Hasselblad to modernize their workhorse cameras in the

current market. And you heard, many photographers are just as

happy to leave them as they are. So I wouldn't wait too long for

an update.

 

In my case, after a lot of thought and research I ended up going

for the discontinued Hasselblad 202FA. I can say that I much

prefer its built-in metering using the differential mode, as

opposed to using the SQ-Ai with the meter prism. The

ergonomics of the AE lock and adjustment buttons are great,

making this a virtual point and shoot camera if you want. I just

wish the 200 series offered both center-weighted and spot

metering together in one camera. However, given Hasselblad's

finances I am not sure how quickly we will see the rumored 204.

[dave_t]

What's interesting here is that technologically Bronica, which used to be very innovative, has been going in retrograde motion. The Bronica S of 40 years ago had an instant return mirror, a top shutter speed of 1/1000 (1/1250?) sec, and fast long lenses (500/5.5, 1000/6.3). The EC of 30 years ago had in-body metering with aperture-priority auto exposure, rack focusing, and a crazy split mirror to minimize mirror bounce and reduce registration distance. The SQA(i) of 10 years ago (and current today) has no instant return mirror, no in-body metering, a top speed of 1/500, and a long lens of 500/8.

 

Now some of the changes make sense: the top shutter speed went down with a change to leaf-shutter lenses, which makes sense for the typical uses of 6x6, eg., and the split mirror was too clever by half. I'm sure that the new 500/8 is optically superior to the 500/5.5 and 1000/6.3. And no doubt the electronic Ai prism and SCA flash capability provide real improvements over the older models. But in other ways (no instant return mirror, which doesn't bother me; no in-body meter, which would be real nice to have; helical lens focusing) Bronica seems to have followed Hasselblad's technological lead, which is not a good thing, IMO. Now they have a Blad copy, a little more plasticky, a little more modern, but definitely a copy. Why is this? I don't know. Perhaps the market didn't want the innovation, perhaps some of the ideas were considered unnecessary or too weird, perhaps they figured that if Hasselblad remained the choice of pros despite the archaic design, Bronica should follow suit. In any case, the market spoke, and that means (among other things) no in-body meter. I sure hope Rollei (who are at least pushing the technology in 6x6) succeed. I do like my SQAi very much, but sometimes I also wish it were more of an EC successor and less of an updated 50x copy.

[audun_sjoeseth1]

These days many 35mm users go digital, but some of them look to medium format instead. Most of these photograpers have perhaps never used handheld meter. Any MF-produser should not underestimate this customergroup, who often can pay what it costs.

 

For closeup/macro photography (and many other situations) it would be nice to have a in-body meter, one can take off the 90 degree AE-prisme (not suitable for work on the ground-level) and still have a light-meter. Bronica have a good macro-lens for both the 6x6 and 645-model.

 

I will go for a 6x6 model without prismefinder (to save weigt and space), then I'll never have to turn the camera to compose the image. Now it looks like I have to buy a 203 or a 6003 to get what I want, when I can afford it, maybe then a "204" is available. Hasselblad is building new factory/development/office-building, and has taken out some new patents, so I think the company belive in the future.

 

Rollei has built in a light meter in their TLR.

 

So why not in-body meter in a bronica 6x6-model, it should by common sense not cost as much as an AE-prismefinder?

 

Than you all for your answers! (Sorry for my bad English.)

[david_henderson]

I do understand what you're saying but clearly Bronica/Tamron have a view that insufficient extra people will buy a version with integral metering to make it worthwhile to develop and market such a product. Although Japanese R&D is notoriously driven by technology rather than customer needs (typical approach to national distributors is "this is what we make; your job is to sell it") I have a feeling they might be right on this issue. Don't forget that they'd have to keep the prism range in production too since they fit a wide spectrum of existing cameras.

 

Further they could not take the risk of putting metering into all their cameras, because the effect on price would probably reduce their sales and share. So we're talking here not just of R&D but more complex production and stockholding. Additionally you'd have to incorporate some form of prism viewfinder into the camera anyway since the idea of reading a meter through a waist level finder is unlikely to be satisfactory. I think you'll find that most MF SLR's with integral meters have an integral prism. So the reality is that any cost/weight advantage you'd get would be very small indeed- all you're doing is moving some intelligence from the prism to the camera itself.

 

You seem to think that hand-held meters are inconvenient and difficult. Well whilst you clearly have to learn, most people who use one first started with cameras with integral metering so the transition isn't so difficult. Also you get a lot of metering options that an in camera solution won't give, eg. incident metering if you like it (I don't) and a one degree spot (which I find invaluable). It is much easier to use a hand-held meter than moving a tripod mounted camera away from your selected composition to take readings. I have a metered prism on my Bronica and integral metering with a Mamiya 7II. I use neither of them because I simply get better exposures with the hand-held meter.

 

At the end of the day the choice is yours -you can pay a lot for what you think you want, or choose not to. But one of the reasons why you have to pay a lot more is that in essence you're voting against the biggest chunk of the market. The meterless Bronica and Hasselblad 6x6 solutions sell a lot more than the likes of Rollei, at least here in the UK. I wouldn't personally hold my breath for new models to reach the market- could be a while and they might not be "right" at the outset. You might think about one of the 645 models with good in-camera metering which are less costly . The Pentax 645n comes to mind here and indeed it has a the ability to put a second tripod QR plate on the side so turning the camera through 90 degrees isn't at all difficult.

[john_bright]

Audun,

 

The MF Finder S fits the SQAi. It gives the same view point as the WLF (no prism) plus metre, diopter adjustment and rubber eye-cup.

[audun_sjoeseth1]

David

 

Thank you for your long and good answer.

 

May be the first I should invest in is a good hand-held meter for my F3 equipment. Then a 6x6 camera with TTL-flash ability (SQ-Ai or 503 CW, I have a 45CT-4).

 

I know that Pentax 645 "has a the ability to put a second tripod QR plate on the side so turning the camera through 90 degrees isn't at all difficult". If I go for medium format, I have decided that it will be 6x6 for square slides (645 will not be square enought ;-).

I also think I won't need a prismfinder in the start.

 

John

Thank you! I did not know about the MF Finder S.

[GerrySiegel]

I am another user of the Bronica who has an AE prism prefers to meter by a hand held -bloody reactionary- and then transfer it to the camera. Why, because the meter pattern of the finder is averaging and I can do better by a la a carte meetering. I dont know how well Tamron is servicing the products since GMI days, I rather think the prices have gone up,they were very low before compared to the Swedish Big Guy. The lenses range has increased,you will notice. Bronica now offers a power winder, small add-on to be sure, but also a whole bunch of stuff in the rangefinder field. So they are keeping up. And the lenses get rave reviews from the press. I still think the S series is fine,myself and bought it used. Yes, I am pleased that the Bronica still exists and not gone the way of lets see Kowa, any other MF's?

[kirk_boston]

As a "new" Bronica owner who has just recently received his

"new" camera from his father who bought it the year before he

was born. I do say I like my S2 a lot so far. I have finished my

3rd roll of film today. I had my first light meter incident today....

 

I also got a Sekonic Studio Deluxe (L-28C) light meter with it.

The meter is very flexiable (My little brain was reading the wrong

numbers on the light meter and did not relize it untill I was going

to my second location to shoot another roll) and a bit complex

compared to the eavl, spot, and center on my 35mm camers. so

I have half a roll of film that is way overexposed... Bummer. It is

a learning exp and I kind of like the hand held metering...

 

Kirk