RAW and Sharpening

[oleg_lempert2]

Canon 30D Picture Style "LANDSCAPE" applies +7 sharpening factor. If I shoot RAW, is this sharpening applied to

the photo? If yes why everyone is saying "when shoot RAW no camera settings applied"? Thanks for clarification

[notraces]

Oleg -- you may want to read a little about RAW conversions -- "Real World RAW" is a good book -- and there are many others.

 

Shooting RAW applies NO camera settings -- when you convert the RAW file to TIFF/PNG/JPEG/etc - You make the choices before the conversion happens -- not only with sharpening - but with exposure / white balance / etc --

 

If you do shoot using JPEG -- then, you're right - the camera makes the decision for you - using picture styles - or custom settings. There are times when shooting JPEG is just fine -- but for me - I shoot RAW 99.9% of the time -- I like having complete control over my images...

[cabbiinc]

Yes and no. The CR2 file is a modified Tiff file. The original data is still there, with the in camera sharpenning applied to the display image. Case in point. You can shoot in monochrome in RAW and change your mind in the computer and make it color again, just as if you never shot in monochrome. You can't do that with a Jpeg. It just illistrates that the original data isn't changed, but the display image is.

[sattler123]

Dan is correct - but it depends what program you are using. If you use the RAW converter in Bridge, then it will ignore any in-camera settings and only use the default values from the RAW converter. If using DPP from Canon, it retains the in-camera data as a starting point - you can of course change them to your liking IF you shot RAW.

[oleg_lempert2]

I use RAW converter in Photoshop CS3. It is a very simple question: is Canon EOS 30D Landscape picture style settings (i.e. sharpening) retained by this RAW converter. Thanks

[john_bellenis]

Oleg - the short answer is no.

 

The longer answer is that when you output your images from ACR to TIFFs, JPGs, whatever, you have the choice to

sharpen them at the conversion stage, or output them unsharpened and sharpen later in PS. Seeing as sharpening should

be output specific, the best route is obviously to sharpen each image individually later on in Photoshop. Also the

sharpening tool in ACR is pretty unsophisticated compared to the options offered in PS.

[ronald_moravec1]

The sharpening tool in ACR, the way I use it, is to only regain the sharpness lost thru digitation. It needs to be finished sharpened at final size.

 

ACR sharpening has control over detail and masking so you decide the amount of detail to sharpen and can mask the image so that large smooth tone areas do not get sharpened. You can see the mask and details at 100% magnification and if you hold down the option key on a Mac. Use one of the lower left keys on pc. Then move the slider to see what changes. This is much like high pass sharpening if you employ the options.

[cabbiinc]

I guess I should have stated that I use Canon's Digital Photo Professional for post processing my RAW files and not ACR or Photoshop. In fact I rarely use photoshop.

[oleg_lempert2]

I apply Creative Sharpening to accentuate specific features in an image. It is followed by Output Sharpening with High Pass filter. I'd like the initial Sharpening step - Capture Sharpening - replaced with ACR default sharpening settings (25). Why? Because Capture sharpening, as Ronald pointed out, "is to only regain the sharpness lost thru digitation". ACR default sharpening settings seems to do just that - sort of 'gental' sharpening.

[mohammed_abidally]

If you select EOS 30D Landscape Picture in camera the output file can only be in JPG so ther is no possibilty to obtain a RAW file for futher processing in ACR. EOS 30D does not make RAW files in fully auto modes.

 

If you shoot AV or TV or M or P etc you can get a RAW file.

 

You may simulate the Landscape setting with RIT software.

 

RAW file's themselves can never be altered.

 

You only apply setting to the file and take out a conversion in either JPG or TIFF

[photohns]

If the 30D is like the XSI it has a landscape picture style which can be choosen while shooting raw.

[g dan mitchell]

"I use RAW converter in Photoshop CS3. It is a very simple question: is Canon EOS 30D Landscape picture style settings

(i.e. sharpening) retained by this RAW converter. Thanks"

 

No.

[chrisjb]

`The CR2 file is a modified Tiff file. The original data is still there,`

 

Hmm thanks Dan, I rarely use RAW for workflow reasons, so the camera actually shoots a TIF and then we convert to another TIF or Jpeg file modified by the conversion software ?

[alan_myers]

"so the camera actually shoots a TIF and then we convert to another TIF or Jpeg file modified by the conversion

software ?"

 

No, you are getting in-camera converted, 8 bit JPEGs only.

 

All the extra RAW/TIFF data is thrown away, in essence.

 

In your computer you could convert the JPEGs you download into TIFFs with the same or even higher bit depth, but

that wouldn't retrieve any of the data.

 

 

Maybe this will help make more sense of it.... A RAW file actually is a TIFF file... of a sort.

 

It's a "proprietary" TIFF file unique to each camera manufacturer, with more data added (EXIF. "picture style"

parameters and other stuff). But at it's core, it's actually a TIFF file, no matter what manufacturer's camera is

used. Even the "universal" RAW or "digital negative" Adobe would like everyone to adopt - the DNG file - is a

TIFF at its core.

 

Now, one of the things that's added to the "proprietary" TIFF file is a small, embedded JPEG. That's because most

cameras cannot display a TIFF (or RAW) on their LCD. So, even when you are shooting in RAW mode, there is a small

JPEG being produced by the camera, so that you can have an image review.

 

The reason it's proprietary is because each camera manufacturer has their own ways of doing these things (storing

EXIF data and shot parameters, producing the JPEG for review, etc.).

 

Canon's RAW has been through at least three generations that I'm familiar with. First (that I peronally am

familiar with) was CRW, which Canon up through the 10D produced. Then came the 12 bit CR2 file. 5D, 20/30D, for

example, produce those. Now we have the 14 bit CR2 file, in the 40/50D and the new 5D Mark II.

 

I am not very familiar with the progression through these file types that the 1D series took, or different file

types prior to CRW. So I won't try to go into those at all.

 

TIFFs can be up to 16 bit depth, and that's a lot of the the extra size/image data we see in RAW files. Canon's

CRW and original CR2 were 12 bit. Currently they are 14 bit, which I think has about four times as much data as

12 bit. Remember, JPEGs are only 8 bit, so a lot of image data gets thrown away whenever the RAW file is

converted to JPEG, whether that's done in camera or later in your computer. But, when it's done in your computer,

the original RAW remains on file unless you choose to throw it away. With in-camera RAW conversions, it's not

retained (unless you choose RAW + JPEG, which requires a lot more storage space of course).

 

The progressive changes Canon has made to it's proprietary RAW file format are the reason Photoshop CS2 cannot

directly read 14 bit CR2 files. You need to upgrade to PS CS3 if you wish to use PS with these later camera

models. Also, if you were to partially use a compact flash card in a 10D, it wouldn't be readable if you then

moved it to a 20/30/5D. In the same way, I don't think a 40/50D or 5D M2 could read any of the files from the

earlier cameras.

 

But, at their core, all those files are still TIFFs, which retain more data than JPEGs, but take up more storage

space in the process.