Posting GPS coordinates of famous photo locations online

[alfred_maragh]

This is certainly not a nice thing to accept especially when one works hard to find a unique place to photograph. However, I am of the view that none of us can stop this practice no matter how hard we try or strongly disagree. It is just one of the many things that technology will drive. It can only increase in popularity and is no different from all the other types of info that are shared on the web. Today you can find just about anything you want by a web search and we all have benefited from this.

An associate of mine covered the 2004 Olympics and I noticed that he mounted a camera at the finish line and triggered it remotely. Many other cameras were beside his and they were all wired with similar receivers. I asked how he knew his photos different from others and how he knew whose transmitter triggered his camera. His response was that he could not tell and it never mattered. Getting the GPS info for a site and simulating the way another person photographed it will, in the future, be some we have to live with. Those of us who are really in this for the true fun will find new things to shoot every day.

Maybe we as photographers will have to look at other ways of making our work unique. Maybe one day we have to face the daunting fact that photography will no longer be a profitable business anymore as with the digital age, many ordinary people can do what photographers were once hired for.

[justinblack]

I appreciate the discussion everyone. I'd just like to raise again the issue of highly focussed and localized impact in fragile

natural locations that posting coordinates could encourage, as opposed to the issue of knocking off other photographer's

composition. There hasn't been as much discussion of the former, which to me is the more important issue.

[paul_goutiere]

If I know a famous photographer is in the area I'll discretely (of course) follow him around and watch what

he/she goes with their camera. When the tripod is set up I'll wait until the picture is taken then push the

photographer away so that I may draw little circles, on the ground, around the tripod feet. At this point the

photographer usually leaves.

 

I'll then take my picture.

 

The GPS thing is even better but the photographer is not there any more, and I don't know where the original

picture was taken. Some times the picture was taken a long time ago and trees have grown up since that time. In

this case I always have an axe, shovel, chainsaw and a stuffed deer in the back of my 4X4. I'll rearrange my

surroundings to match the picture done by the original artist and then ... whamo! What could be better!

 

I tried straight plagiarism once but got sued. These darned photographers get so uppity, I think they are upset

'cause they know I'm just as good.

[sampson]

If increased popularity and traffic results in a conservation effort, then maybe that is better than having photographers bushwhack their way around just to find a 'new' and 'unique' site.

 

I believe that the reality of how much impact on a particular site or environment has as much to do with how the individual acts while out there and less on the volume and amount of traffic.

[davebell]

I welcome it, bring it one. I believe in sharing knowledge and information.

[JDMvW]

This is not entirely unrelated to the ethical and moral implications of what is called the "Tragedy of the Commons"

 

There are plenty of dialectical implications too.

 

The law of quantitative into qualitative change (one sno-mobile is fantastic!, a thousand sno-mobiles are an

ecological disaster!) is involved.

 

And contradiction (Widerspruch) galore, even with theses, antitheses, and syntheses!

 

The seminar on historical materialism will resume after a short break. ;)

[travis_cottrell]

Just as with any hobby i've ever been involved in, there comes a time when people get to involved in the minutia and forget to just have fun. For gods sake, there is no evidence that posting gps coordinates increases traffic to an area anyway. Jeez

[sketch_tbhotmail.com]

What do you consider excessive traffic? I'm pretty sure that for most coordinates given, you might get an extra 10-20 people there a year. Of course that's unless its in an easily accessible area in which case there's probably a lot of traffic already. I have yet to meet another photographer who has gone off into the woods homing in on a gps coordinate to get a shot.

 

Also, to second one of Edward's responses, they may not be able to find a safe path to the coordinate. I doubt anyone who wouldn't rather go exploring to find their own special place would be willing to go bushwacking through the wilderness to find a safe route.

 

I can sympathize with Jonathan and his endangered moths but a photograph is only a captured scene. If its an ecologically sensitive area there are some moral issues at hand. That being said, I still don't see the traffic increasing enough through the release of a magic spot on a map to cause any harm.

[john_h.1]

If GPS locating is a concern due to traffic ect, then all discussion and information about where a image is likewise be a concern as it may generate traffic at or near the location in question. We don't need Film vs. Digital arguments anymore. We can have a fun debate on Maps and words vs Digital satellite locating now.

 

Fun.

[Stock-Photos]

I say, post it if you got it!

[ilkka_nissila]

<i>It is just one of the many things that technology will drive.</i>

<p>

Actually this technology was developed by people for people. Technology doesn't drive anyone anywhere.

<p>

I think this is highly valuable information for historical record keeping. If you want to show where you took a shot, that's fine. Maybe someone can find a location of interest to them this way. I can't imagine anyone being interested in copying someone else's shot but finding locations is sometimes hard and if the GPS data can help spread this information then it's great. Also, it would be interesting to see how locations change over time, with the GPS data these can be brought together for viewing.

[ggriswold]

Two things--

I would imagine the number of people trekking to a known photo spot would be relatively small. Presumably someone who wants to take landscape photographs would have the sensitivity not to break branches, trample small plants and litter. Pretty safe to assume that the numbers of people doing this "paint by numbers" shooting is relatively small-- at least I hope it is. If you went to a spot to replicate a famous photograph it may be instructive just how important and fleeting ambient conditions are.

 

If someone navigates to one of these spots without seeing their own photographs first--- you may want to consider a few creativity exercises or a good workshop.

[dallasmcvickerphotography]

I love this place. I have learned soooo much from the opinions here, but you guys will argue what day of the week it is. GEEZ! Need I need to hint at Film or Digital? NOOO!

[charles_mason]

Justin,

 

Please tell me you levitated over that iconic photo site's (Mono Lake) very delicate Tufa to get those shots in your portfolio!

 

:-)

 

Nice portfolio, by the way, and generally very original...

[justinblack]

Hi Charles,

 

Thanks for your kind words.

 

FYI, when I photograph at Mono Lake, I stay on established trails, walk the shoreline, and wade in the water, but I don't

climb on the tufa towers. No one should, because, as you pointed out, they are very fragile, though it shocks me how

often tourists and photographers do climb up on the towers despite the signs that clearly indicate that it is forbidden.

[steve_mareno]

It's sort of like chasing the wind isn't it? Just because Ansel went to a specific place and got a great shot certainly doesn't mean you or I will. Has any of us went to a spot and noticed something special, only to come back time and time again trying to recapture that first look, only to fail miserably? Lighting can change dramatically in just a few seconds at certain times of the day. Once the moment is gone, it's gone.

 

Could someone, using the same equipment that Bresson or Adams or whoever used, going to the same places, get the same results? Or to put it even more bluntly, imagine someone buying the same brushes, paints and canvas as Cezanne, going to the same location and trying to paint the equivalent painting. There is a mis-belief, if you will, that artists (and especially photographers) get the pictures that they do because of the equipment they use or the location they visited. I challenge anyone to go where Ansel went, using the same equipment, and get a shot that will stand with his. If only things were that simple.

[alex_b9]

I agree with the original post and find the whole process of planting one's tripod in another's position to be entirely unimaginative. Yet the benefit is 1) it has a magnetic effect, drawing large numbers to a precise area, thereby leaving the wilds less crowded and more quiet and 2) those unimaginative photos are...unimaginative and quickly become 'has-beens'. For all those who position their tripods via GPS and not because of aesthetics gleaned through their own eye, I say 'great'.

[derek_thornton1]

Justin, way to much here to read so I will just respond to your first post or thread start.

 

I do not think it will make much of a difference to those that know where Ansel Adams took his shot. I am sure their will be those die hards that make the trek and take home the memories on a point and shoot. If you are just worried about those treading over sacred ground, don’t waste your time. Mans foot his hit every square inch of dirt on this planet. The more people the more degradation. I took a road trip across the country last year in bumper to bumper traffic, there and back. There is way to many people on our planet. And, there is nothing at all you can do about the crowds in the N.P.'s, except watch them grow.

 

I agree and disagree with you. Anyone has a right to take a picture anywhere they wish within the US and just as those liked to explore in the 1920's they do today. I think what scares you and others is more an originality issue. Personally, I would never want to take a shot that some famous photographer did knowingly. At the same time it would be downright selfish of me to criticize those who do. This is everyone’s planet and as far as originality is concerned, nothing is. Everything has been shot to death and if it has not it will soon considering a million more folks have bought DSLR's to try and make their dreams come true as a professional nature photography.

[laurentbaig]

Justin,

 

I agree with you that it is more rewarding to explore the landscape on your own, but I come from the mindset of a climber, and an adventurer. I like a little beta (like knowing something is do-able), but I don't need to know the details beyond go here, then go there. My photography comes from the same place I think. I have very few recognizable locations in my images.

 

I think most people/photographers, and especially photographers in this digital age, easily acquire the skills and abilities to make technically good images. This doesn't mean that they have the imagination to make good images on their own. Or they can't because they live in the middle of concrete jungle - they don't have the opportunites to "just explore" but they want to make an image, so they go specifically where they've seen good images already made.

 

So many nature 'togs do this: have you been here, have you been there, it's like being a birder with a tick list. You can't deny them the right to play on public lands. All you can do is try to educate those you see not being careful of the steps they leave.

[stevesieren]

Title says: Posting GPS coordinates online

 

It's a sad thing for a photographer nowadays to rely on technical gadgets than his/hers own creativity.

 

Most photographers are afraid of failure. Afraid of returning with nothing to show or to brag about and using a

common excuse of I don't have the time to explore and rely on my own creativity then turning to a cycle of only

visiting places where they can increase their capture percentage. I've been guilty of that post card learning process

myself but learned to venture out into the unknown and of course have been burdened with failure many times.

Eventually after a few years of this the photographer finally figures out that he does know how to take a picture and

he/she can see creatively and moves on from that possibly never ending cycle of eating the same grass just like the

rest of the sheep. Of course there are many photographers already out that new from the start turning something

out of nothing would yeild much higher results. Unfortuneately w/ the high percentage of new digital photographers

growing higher and higher every year this is something that will never stop and will only get worse. With high

volumes of people the impact is always visible for lengths of time. I know the majority of people care about the

enviroment but it takes everyone to be involved to keep the impact low but those who don't care leave more of an

impact than those that do. So Justin, I would have to agree with you that it does bring in the traffic and thats not a

good thing in the long run so those of you that have every intent on copying something, good for you and if you pick a

certain photographer there isn't a law that say you can't change your name to his or hers. Be yourself we want to see

a new name added to history books in this digital world. If I were to offer any advice those who explore seem to be

honored the most and that is what a GPS device was intended for.

 

I've lead private workshops and always see that device get pulled out of pocket in front of me and I'm sure it happens

to you more than anyone. I don't mind it's just technology and hoping that it doesn't happen is just unneeded weight

on one's shoulders.

 

I've been published a few times in a magazine across the US but never for a duplicate photograph of some else's

work or exact scene. In the end CREATIVENESS will take you a lot furter than any GPS device ever wil.

 

Maybe there is a future in Geo Cache finding? ?

[jwallphoto]

If someone publishes a book of famous landscape locations with GPS coordinates, it will sell like hotcakes.

[tom_walker1]

In the 1980's a group representing themselves as the "Ansel Adams Estate" showed up here at Denali's Wonder Lake and took a number of measurements and sitings to identify the location from which Adams took his famous image of Mt. McKinley. They told any and everyone that they were going around the country to identify his famous places and then "trademark" them to prevent "copying" photographs. I thought their mission was doomed, for after all, this was a national park site, the most public in the country. To this day some people still refer to this one place as the "Ansel Adams registered site." (Actually their work drew people to that off-the-path spot.) I wonder what the implications are for areas outside of parks and if anyone else has tried or pondered this. Food for thought.

Tom Walker

[phule]

<<"Do you have any real data to back up this conclusion? What makes you think people are using the GPS data to

exactly replicate the shot? Why do you think they're not using the data simply as a reference?">>

 

[[i was referring specifically to posting the data online. I see no problem with keeping a personal reference. ]]

 

 

Justin,

 

You wrote: "Posting the location of a particular spot will inevitably result in excessive traffic, degradation

of the area in question, and possibly restrictions or closure by local land management agencies"

 

Do you have any proof, any hard data at all, to back up this claim? Do you have a location where excessive

traffic occurred after someone posted the GPS coordinates online? Can you actually support your argument against

posting of GPS coordinates with a case study or similar?

 

You have yet to counter the claim that posting GPS coordinates is nothing more than a reference to people; no

different than a map with notations.

[doug herr]

tom walker wrote: "<I>... the "Ansel Adams Estate" ... told any and everyone that they were going around the country to

identify his famous places and then "trademark" them to prevent "copying" photographs.</I>"

<P>

Totally silly. Light, exposure and timing mean nothing? Not to mention the dramatic changes in vegetation and glaciation

in several decades. Do these people think that location is all that makes AA's photos what they are?

[vivek iyer]

<i>Light, exposure and timing mean nothing? Not to mention the dramatic changes in vegetation and glaciation in several decades.</i>

<p>

Doug, I believe this is a discussion about advanced pros who have mastered the light and such trivia. ;-)