neil_colton Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Hello All- I am a commercial shooter, freelance photojournalist and newbie wedding photographer. I am adding a retail component to my work to include weddings + portraits. I have shot a few weddings and more seem to be on the way. I am struggling with a wedding pricing structure that is simple and effective. Right now, I simply use a Creative Fee for Time + Talent (comes from my commercial background), but I spend a lot of time explaining this to clients, who ask me for all sorts of things-CDs, DVDs, Slide Shows, Albums, Proofs, et al. There seem to be 2 models in the wedding photography world: 1) a la carte pricing w/everything else an add on 2) the package plan w/more variations than I can name. My question is: What is the most effective and least painful approach (for both parties) for wedding pricing and why? A follow up question: If the answer is 'Packages' what is a good mix of services and products? Many thanks, Neil +{Moderator note: Last name and business name/location deleted as per photo.net policy. Please read the sticky regarding "signatures" on the Photo.net Help Forum] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron.carney Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Neil, While you are certainly a far more experienced photog than I am, I have done a fair bit of research on this very topic, and would be happy to pass along what I have learned. Hopefully Mary Ball will be along shortly to expound on/correct what I say. From what I have found, like you say, there are typically 2 types of wedding photography business models - Creative Fee, and Traditional. The Creative Fee model is like you said, a larger up front cost, and less sales of prints and albums - typically the client gets a DVD of the images from the wedding. The Traditional model is a lower up-front fee, and more sales of prints and albums, etc. The traditional model may have packages, but also a great deal of a la carte items. I believe the Creative Fee model typically is more package based. I believe what I am going to do is be more package based, using the Creative Fee method, but offer a price list for prints and albums. That will give me a bit more freedom to make the predominance of income up front from the Creative Fee, and if the client wants any prints or albums, while I wouldn't aggressively sell them, I would certainly provide that via the price list. However, I will be waiting for other responses to your question almost as eagerly as you, I am curious too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominic_lorenzo Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Package pricing is easier & less confusing, although I do both. Seems when they stray from packages confusion mounts and the A le carte method adds to client frustration (they drive themselves nuts) trying to figure out the best or sometimes cheapest etc way to do all. Just my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_colton Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Ron- A makeup artist I know well, recently told me that today's brides want the process of choosing a photographer made easier by sorting for quality of work + pricing. My current pricing (Time +Talent plus anything you want) means brides who want to hire me have to do some number crunching. Seems easy enough to me, but am I missing something by not having 'Package A', 'Package B', etc? There's also the question of the CD/DVD of wedding day images. Where and how does that factor into the pricing structure? As a commercial shooter, I'm reluctant to give anything away without compensation, but I often see that included as part of the basic wedding photog service...but I digress. Thanks for your thoughts, Ron. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I offer a combination of both. Suggest that you network with local pros and consider joining PPA and/or WPPI and research the question there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 The studio I work for has simply three ``packages`` if you can call them that. It is an established studio. We will tailor anything we can, to suit the client: and that does not imply High Price / High End Functions, we cater for middle class families, mainly. *** IMO ``what`` you offer for sale depends a lot on ``how`` you intend to sell it . . . think about that, first is my best advice. WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_colton Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 David + William- Excellent points. I considered posting this question on the DWF, but I decided to ask this forum first, for a different perspective. I am glad that I did. Best, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Hmm, I got to thinking you might be more business aware, than many . . . It`s a lazy Thursday arvo here . . . and I am on a long lunch . . . and I got curious and so I just had a little squiz . . . If I were you . . . I would consider making the Neil / Shannon Wedding ``Studio`` . . . a different business entity. That might be the first step to simultaneously: . un-cluttering the client`s perspective and understanding of what is what . separating your offers of sale . clarifying what you are actually selling, into two distinct baskets . make it easier to price each basket . possibly, create a niche (IMO very important) and it may be very useful, to you two, too. Gee . . . I love alliteration. WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_colton Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 William- Good points, all. With all the new tools out there-blogs, websites, et al- rebranding is not as intimidating, or as expensive, as it once was. We've straddled the worlds of PJ, editorial + retail photography for long enough. At a minimum, another 'brand' with content targeted at a narrow market is an overdue move. Your insight is welcomed and appreciated. All the best and thanks, again, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think27 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Marketing experts seem to believe that you should offer three "packages" and that the middle package will be the most popular. Mine has to do only with price/hours and start with the highest price, middle second and lowest third. Middle is the biggest seller. I like to give the couple flexibility and do a la carte pricing which gives me lots of future album/reprint business. I do inlcude a very inexpensive "favorites" album in which I inlcude 40 or so of my favorites (usually ends up being the ones they love as well) This album only costs me $35 (PK album with blank pages from Art Leather) plus proof prints - 4x6 and cropped creatively in smaller sizes that I get for free as doubles anyway) What this does is create a demand for a larger formal album because things like family shots are not included. They always ask for an album just like the favorites album but with other additions. Also included is $100 towards reprints/album and that is included in all packages. No time limit but pricing for orders is only guaranteed for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiva Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 What's a PK album Mary? (I did search PK at the website but no hits) I like the idea of a favorites album with images chosen by the photographer. And, can I ask what do you charge the couple for this album? I'm not understanding, sorry, what you mean by "cropped creatively in smaller sizes that I get free as doubles". Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_colton Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Mary- This helps me understand a bit more about the use of a la carte pricing and marketing, in general. I didn't understand your package specifics, though. Would you mind sharing that structure in more detail, without hard numbers. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think27 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 William - you'll probably have to call Art Leather and ask about the PK album. The item number is PK55EBS You can get matted pages or what I get which isl blank pages. I use herma fix and do creative cropping to make a story of the wedding. Usually page one is flowers or something artsy. I do a two page spread of getting ready - 2 to 4 shots. Then the ceremony - again a two to four page sequence. I do some "fun family shots sometimes of the group being silly or playful but noformal group shots. I do quite a few portrait and couple shots mostly "posed candids" and a few super couple shots and do anywhere from 6 to 8 pages of these. The book is a pretty good looking quality black hard cover. Inside is a black plastic spiral binding which takes the blank pages. Every since I've done this album orders have picked up beyond belief. Neil, another words lets say package A is 7 hours @$4,600. 800+ proof prints in proof albums and $100 towards an album or reprints. Package B is 6 hours at $4,100 - 700+ proof prints in proof albums and $100 towards an album or reprints. Package C is 5 hours at $3,400 - 600+ proof prints in proof albums and $100 towards an album or reprints. It is very simple. Package B is usual During the sales appt...I show the various album choices and later they have many choices from a simple 5x7 "The Book" by Renaissance for parents or a Bookbound matted album by the same company (lower end albums) to the Seldex Art Album with beveled mats or a Coffee table book. This way they know they have many choices down the road to suit their budgets. However, since there is no time limit - many who thought they'd be going lower end - a year or more later are in a better financial situation with the cost of the wedding well behind them and spend quite a bit of money of the orders. The $100 allowance is high enough that it is incentive to not waste that credit and is in the paperwork in the albums as a reminder that they have $100 sitting there. People always bring up the objection that couples will scan the images but I show them a scanned image and the same image printed by 3 different labs compared to my lab (I show them 10 or so prints each printed in these ways) and they seem to realize if they want quality - they want me to do the printing. I've talked about this many times on the forums and I'm passionate about it because it works so well and I see people missing opportunities for reprint/album sales with the shoot and hand over CD's or doing on line fulfillment and deadlines. I've told the story a few months ago about the couple that I shot for 8 years ago that gave me a two volume album order and reprints that totaled over $4,000. Last week I got a reprint order for a couple I shot in August of 2001! They keep rolling in and a surprising amount from 2-5 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil_colton Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Mary- This is very good information. Thank you for the thorough reply. I get it now. Very few wedding shooters are using hard proofs, today, though-as I'm sure you know. You clearly have a strong wedding business and a proven system that works for you. I like your business model. It's similar to the approach our wedding photographer used, 15+ years ago. A question, then: 'Do you think a new wedding shooter can establish + grow a business without online proofing/ordering + without providing the B+G w/images on a CD/DVD?' Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Yes. I know so. Obviously, it will be going against the flow. The best counter to that is: Niche. (My opinion). Niche then becomes the USP. The key elements of the business plan need to specifically address that Niche. I think, it is cleaver, if the majority of the customer base is a niche, too. It needs to have a balance of the entrepreneur / businessperson driving it: all niche businesses which win, need these two elements, and it would fit well with splitting the business entities, IMO. WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now