Why can't I shoot faster than 1/200th on my 400D in manual mode inside?

[matthew_parker4]

Hi there

 

I have just bought a set of studio lights, Bowens 2 x 200ws flash heads, and decided to try them out for the first time

this weekend. Despite learning that I clearly have a lot to learn about how to use studio lighting, something did

happen that was a little odd.

 

Situation:

I was using the studio lighting in my living room which I blacked out so that the natural lighting outside didnt skew

my flash lighting, and I set my camera to full manual mode so that I could fully control both f/stop and shutter

speed. I wanted to shoot handheld so I tried to set the shutter speed to a decent speed (320 - 400) but every time I

tried to lock in the shot it dropped it to 1/200th second and it wouldnt let me work any faster.

 

I'm confused, I thought fully manual meant I had full control.

 

Any explanation would be greatly appreciated

 

Cheers

 

Matt

[alan_chan4]

Because that's the x-sync of 400D.

[donald_a]

You must have had the on-board flash popped up. The sync speed on the 400D is 1/200. Lower the flash and you'll be fine.

[dlakelan]

Donald. I don't think so. Flash sync speed = maximum speed you can go where the full frame is exposed all at once. Faster shutter speeds happen by moving a slit across the image. So only a portion of the frame will be lit by the flash... 1/200 is fastest speed for flash photo on this camera.

[donald_a]

Daniel, that's a good point. I don't know how those Bowen flash heads work. Are they triggered by a flash? Anyway, you can get higher shutter speeds if you use Canon's dedicated flashes, like the 430 or 580.

[matthew_parker4]

Hi guys, I think you might be onto something with the flash. I dont have the on-board flash popped up, but I have had my dedicated flash attached to the shoe, on it's lowest power aimed backwards from the subject. The reason for this is that the bowen flashes have photocells on them, so the on-board flash triggers the bowens flash heads but since the on-board flash is aimed away from the subject it doesnt affect the shot. I had to do this because the 400d doesnt have a PC sync slot for the sync cable.

 

In this case, do I need to buy an adaptor to go on my shoe so I can use a PC sync cable in order for the camera to allow me to shoot at faster than 1/200?

 

Also, I can adjust my flash heads from power 1 to 3 (and any increment in-between) - I am guessing this is the 2 f/stops my flash heads have, but I am not noticing a big output difference between 1 and 3, is there any reason you can think of for this happening?

 

Cheers

[donald_a]

To make your life simple I would just shoot at 1/200. You're indoors so I don't see any reason why you should have to shoot with a faster shutter speed. The bottom line is that you will able to shoot faster than 1/200 only if the on-board flash is down OR you have a Canon flash attached.

[brian_coy]

Matthew, even using a sync cord you can't go faster than 1/200 without having less than the full frame exposed with the flash. If you go faster than that you will get a partially exposed frame with the bottom of your images dark or black. You probably don't need to worry about having a high shutter speed. The very short duration of the flashes will freeze any movement, including hand shake.

[mark u]

Try taking a picture at 1/200th without flash indoors and you'll find the image is almost black: this background becomes irrelevant when shooting with studio lights. You may find that 1/200th isn't long enough to avoid the shadow of a shutter curtain with your Bowens lights - check the duration data at the various power settings (it may be longer at lower power), or make some test shots.

 

Understand that 1/200th exposure accommodates a flash duration of at most 1/750th while the shutter curtains are fully open. To get the total exposure of 5 msec the first curtain takes 3.5 msec to open - on average exposing half the frame; the curtain is fully open for 1.5 msec, and then the second curtain closes, taking 3.5 msec to do so.

[chrisjb]

You Don`t need high speed, as pointed out, 1/60 is about normal with strobes, an EX flash set to `manual` and dialed down is ok to sync, or any flash with no preflash. Try 1/125 to start, this will reduce the intensity of the lights taking away the harsh bright lighting, also invest in a radio trigger, for easier to work with and nothing for you or subjects to trip on..if the light still bright diffuse more or move them back a lil..HTH :)

[PuppyDigs]

It's been a few years since I used studio flash at school, but as I recall the max sync was 1/60 with a PC cord. The shutter

speed is almost academic as the strobe duration is like 1/10,000 sec, and if it's the main light, you won't have to worry

about camera shake...

[jamie_robertson2]

Matthew, these guys are all correct. You simply can't take a photo using flash at a shutter speed faster than 1/200

on the 400D (even with separate studio flash heads). The only exception is when you are using one of Canon's

Speedlite flashguns in the high speed sync mode, then you can go all the way up to 1/4000 on the 400D.

 

As Mark U says, the ambient daylight in your room will have no effect on the final shot so forget about blocking the

windows. I remember nearly dying laughing years ago when my friend was taking some shots of a model at his

home. It was late in the evening and it was dark outside but even so, he shut all the curtains and turned out all the

lights in the house. So there he was in his new "studio" in complete darkness with a poor young girl. Neither of them

could see each other at all and he didn't know which direction to point the camera. The resulting photos were

hilarious. I then tried to explain to him that the light bulbs in his house wouldn't affect the final result.

 

Just lock your camera at 1/200 and adjust the aperture and flash power accordingly to control the exposure. (And

leave the curtains open so you can see what you are doing!)

[dlakelan]

I agree with Mark and Chris. The upshot is that at 1/200 the frame is fully open for a small amount of time... Any faster, and the frame is not fully open for any amount of time. (it's a partial frame slit throughout the exposure).

 

Best bet is 1/125 or 1/90 or something like that. This prevents the possibility of the shutter not quite syncing and leaving a shadow on the top of the frame.

 

the flash only lasts 1/1000 second or so. So there is no motion blur even at 1/60 or longer... the only issue with the shutter is if you leave it open long enough the room light starts to contribute enough that your exposure is no longer primarily from the flash. This is called "dragging the shutter" but indoors in low lighting, you'd have to leave it open for 1/2 second or 1/8 second or something like that.

[peter_lee10]

Matt this is pretty basic stuff I am surprised there have been so many very confused responses. It has nothing to do with having the pop up flash up or down or sideways or the on camera flash attached. As someone has correctly mentioned, your camera uses a focal plane shutter to expose the sensor. This consists of TWO shutter curtains that move across the sensor in quick succession. First one shutter curtain moves across the focal plane to open the shutter, then to end the exposure the second curtain moves across and closes it. Imagine a letter box gap moving across the sensor to expose the frame. It means that the whole of the frame is exposed for only a very short time and at other times either the first or second shutter curtain is covering part of the frame. So if you use an exposure of 1/500 second for example, you'll see the other curtain in the shot. when the flash fires.

 

In manual mode your camera will let you shoot at 1/500 sec but you will see the curtain. The reason it automatically limits it to 1/200 sec is because you have the flash attached so the flash is telling the body not to allow it. You won't be able to test this theory because you have to use your flashgun to trigger the other lights but if you didn't you'd see what I mean.

 

You do not need a very high shutter speed for studio photography because the flash duration is very quick, so don't be afraid to use 1/60 or 1/125 sec, it'll be fine.

[duncanholmes]

As to triggering, you can get a simple IR trigger for a relatively small price which is strong enough to trigger the cells in the monoblocs without affecting the lighting. This reduces the dangling cords problem of a pc synch cord if you start moving around the model for a different angle. As long as one of the photocells acan see the transmitter you're fine. In the confines of a home studio you don't usually need to bother with expensive wireless gizmos.

[chrisjb]

Pocket wixards can get pricey, you`ll find theese el cheapos all over the place, I`ve used one for years. try ot to be rough with em tho :)

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Radio-Flash-Wireless-Trigger-for-Studio-4-channel-T1F_W0QQitemZ140271839018QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140271839018&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[chrisjb]

And a IR trigger as Duncan mentioned, prices vary of both types :) HTH

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/IR-Sender-Slave-Flash-Trigger-Wireless-New_W0QQitemZ350105232772QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item350105232772&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177

[hal_a]

Do any of you wish your camera would let you override the sync speed and shoot at faster shutter speeds? I think it may be useful in a situation where your model is standing next to an open door (dark inside) and it very bright outside. A higher shutter speed would help you kill the sunlight better, and the camera flash would be sufficient to light up the subject.

[daire_quinlan]

But that will only result in partial exposure of your image by the flash. Read Peter Lee's response above. The flash sync speed isn't just an arbitary value, its set by the mechanics of the shutter.

[hal_a]

I was thinking that maybe one could use the partial exposure by the flash.

 

Hypothetically, I have a horizontally run shutter, and let the left half of my composition be extremely bright, the right

half very dark, and my subject placed in the darker half. For example, place the subject in a darkly lit room, beside

the open door on a very bright sunny day.

 

I`m saying that in that situation, it doesn`t matter if the bright sunny part doesn`t get flash exposure. So, a faster

shutter speed should work.

 

I haven`t tried it out, and my EOS 1000D won`t allow me, but I would like to hear from anyone who`s tried this. I`ll

test this out using my K1000D and post the results here.

[daire_quinlan]

I vaguely remember some strobist article to this effect. The shooter was deliberately shooting at twice the sync speed to get this very effect. I'll see if I can root up the link.

[daire_quinlan]

ahHa. Apologies for the double post, I should have found this before posting.

 

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/06/hacking-your-cameras-sync-speed-pt-2.html

[hal_a]

Thanks for the link Daire.

[cabbiinc]

One thing you can try is to put a flash on the hotshoe that is High Speed Sync capable that has manual mode. You

will need optical triggers on your Bowens strobes. Your bowens strobes will need to have a longish flash duration.

 

 

Set the hotshoe flash to HSS, M, and the lowest power you can.

 

Set the Bowens stobes to a long flash duration. From what others have argued some strobes duration is longer at full

power, some are longer at lower power. You will be able to figure it out.

 

When the hotshoe flash fires in HSS, it fires before the shutter opens, triggering the strobes to fire at that time as

well. Usually the flash will fire when the shutter is completely open, but HSS fires early and is a brief contiunuous

light. The Bowens strobe may have a flash duration that is longer than the shutter travel, or you could find the magic

shutter speed linked above.

 

 

I do this with 600 watt second strobes, but if your strobes dont have a long enough flash duration then it wont work

well for you.

[mark u]

You need a very lengthy duration to achieve what Dan suggests - 1/100th is a lifetime for flash duration. I would guess that you would see graduated lighting across the frame caused by the opening of the shutter curtain and/or changing output levels from the strobe. Studio strobes don't work like an EX Speedlite for providing HSS flash:

 

http://www.eosdoc.com/manuals?q=Flash+Curves