Canon holding back ?

[images_in_light_north_west]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/techdigest/20080917/ttc-exclusive-canon-engineers-held-back-e870a33.html

[erik_ingvoldstad]

Of course they are, they'd be stupid not to. Canon is a corporation with one of the largest R&D budgets in the world, and also amongst the ones with most patents registered. A lot of the technology they develop will never see the light of day; it contributes to the further development of parallel technologies. Also, being a market leader they can control when they release technology in response to the competition, a little step at the time. I actually think Canon has shown enormous restraint by waiting 3 years to upgrade the 5D (look at how often they upgrade their PopwerShot line). Still, they have to be careful not to come on the defensive like Sony and Microsoft did with the launch of Nintendo Wii. Sometime a smaller producer can come up with a quantum leap that appeals to the public, I think especially a niche company like Nikon (yes I know they're huge, but compared to the multi-conglomerate Canon they're niche) can end up changing the whole game of dSLRs, by introducing a radical new technology and/or way to use that technology. On a less revolutionary scale, the launch of the D700 and A900 will probably force Canon to up their release tempo.

 

When it comes to sensor resolution, it seems they can't win. With 21.1 MP it's too much, if they had released another 12 MP camera there’d be an outcry. My guess is that it will keep on going for a long time, just look to P&S again with 10 and 12 MP being the new 5 MP. Do people need that much? Probably not, do they want it? See, that's a different story.

 

Canon is also holding back on price. They have the mass production capacity to lower the prices and still maintain a healthy margin; they pretty much take whatever they can get from the market – no more, no less. Thankfully, they have a pretty good record of ploughing much of that profit back into R&D, which I guess benefits us all in the end.

 

Now if they could just release that 45 MP 1Ds Mark IV with 10 FPS, usable ultra-high ISO setting, built-in GPS, Wi-Fi and removeable vertical grip like the 1VHS, I'd be happy ;-)

[alan_green4]

yeah. i've heard that kind of thing suggested. i'm still hoping for another non-D full-frame body from them.

[alan_green4]

non-1D i meant. in the 12-16mp range with improved tonality

[25asa]

My question is why didn't they release a 24 megapixel 5D instead of a 21? They had to design a new chip anyway, so they could have easily gone 24 and competed head on with Sony and its A900. But Sony still has the extra rez in this case which would sway some people who could use it to replace their medium format gear. 24 megapixels is the perfect number to make 300dpi 16x20 prints. So I wonder why Canon stopped at 21 instead? Its a good guess they will have to up it to even higher with the replacement 1Ds camera now.

[pjmeade]

It's not wholly surprising to find a comment like that. In almost any research and development environment there are going to be people frustrated by the R&D they are being directed to follow, if it takes them away from their own vision.

 

I've worked in various forms of R&D for almost 30 years and found (and contributed to) that complaint everywhere. So, that complaint is more likely set in arguments over research autonomy than about camera technology.

 

If they have the capability to produce such a quantum leap in technology, surely the thing to do is to put together a compeling case and present that to management, not to bitch about life in R&D to the press.

 

My 2p

 

P

[PuppyDigs]

"My question is why didn't they release a 24 megapixel 5D instead of a 21?"

 

Because such a small diff doesn't matter to all but a few fools. Not too long ago Sony unveiled a 14MP DLR only to have

reviewers discover the rez of the 12MP Sony and 10.1MP Canons out resolve it.

[robin_sibson1]

Market forces are always going to control what happens. Quite right too. Look at how successful they have been in the financial sector.

 

Just my $75,000,000,000 worth.

 

On a less flippant note, here are some thoughts from a long-time (since 1965!) Canon user, although neither a fanboy nor a ranter. My currrent kit is 5D + 40D, with an excellent selection of lenses. What do the new introductions mean for me? Well, one important possibility is that 21Mpixels may be just enough for me to crop from the 5DII rather than using a crop camera to obtain full advantage from long lenses. It would give me about 8Mpixels at 1.6-factor crop, similar to the 20D/30D and only a fraction less than my current 40D. Yes, I know I could get 15Mpixels at 1.6-factor crop from the 50D, but I'm not at all sure that my 100~400, although quite a decent lens, would deliver the performance needed by a 15Mpixel 1.6-factor sensor. I rather seldom use the full 6.5fps of the 40D, and could probably live with 3.9fps, definitely a step up from the 3fps of the 5D. The medium-long lens that would certainly deliver on the 50D is my 70~200/4L IS, and the introduction of these new cameras emphasises again the need for Canon to bring their longest zoom up to that same level of performance.

 

Regardless of what I do about the crop camera, I'll almost certainly replace the 5D with a 5DII, and will no doubt be very pleased with the numerous enhancements it will offer. Disappointments? One rather minor one, which is the continued limitation of normal flash synchronisation to 1/200. It is genuinely helpful when balancing flash against daylight to have just a bit more flexibility, and FF shutters that allow flash synchronisation at 1/250 or even higher speeds are nothing out of the ordinary. One major one that is no surprise: the continuing absence of normal precision f/8 AF and high precision f/4 AF. The latter is just as desirable as the former if, as in my case, the f/4 zooms are the core of your walk-around kit, and it is a real disappointment that, following its introduction on the prosumer EOS-3, and then having it on my much-loved 1V, it has since been limited to the gravitationally-challenged 1D series.

[matthijs]

Yup.

 

I'd hazard a guess that they'll release a 1Ds Mark IV real soon.

 

(They'll have to now that the 5DII is practically indistinguishable from the Mark III.)

[david_amberson1]

I believe that report is BS. I think that guy reported the way he felt about the 5DII and said it was a "Canon

Employee" to get readers of it to buy into it.

 

The way this was phrased >

 

"I am hugely disappointed because once again Canon engineers are dictated by their marketing department and had

to keep up with the megapixel race. They have the technology to blow the competition away by adapting the new

50D sensor tech in a full frame format and just easing off a little on the megapixels. Although no formal testing has

been done on the new model yet, judging by the spec and technology used, it just seems to be as good or as bad

as the competition - not beating them by a mile (which we used to)."

 

Come on, it reads just like what we read here everyday about the megapixel race. In fact almost word for word in a

thread on this site. And if he's an employee, why did he say, "Although no formal testing has been done on the new

model yet, judging by the spec and technology used, it just seems to be as good or as bad as the competition - not

beating them by a mile (which we used to)." ...BS!

 

Wouldnt he know all of this for a fact. I work at the Mercedes plant in Alabama where we build the M-Class,GL,R

and we have every competitors model here. We completely disassemble them and study everything about them. We

know exactley what the competition has and how we compare to it. Its precisley done. No "it seems". All of this so

called employees wish list reads just like all the predictions/wishes read in forums. Employees of a company dont

say things like this. He speaks like he had know idea what was coming and he was dissappointed/surprised. Give

me a break. Everyone here at Mercedes knows whats

coming.

 

I seriuosly doubt Canon is telling development engineers to stop progress and worry about marketing BS. More like

the development team presents their new ideas of protoypes of what they can do as engineers to the board. They

talk it over with the marketing group and then they decide "how" far they are willing to go. What the market will

accept or wants and will buy. Then the development engineers put together a nice package and present for a Go/No

Go call. Then testing, testing, testing, and testing against competitors (ie D700) etc. Marketing will never tell

development to stop trying to improve. Thats what they do.

 

When we launched the current model, we were already making arrangments for the replacement. The current model

had 5 years worth of updates/upgrades built right into the launch. I can tell you exactley what the 2010 will

have,feature, price,options etc. So for sure Canon has way more sensor tech than

they show right now. Same with cars. For sure OEM's can build a full size 5800lbs SUV that gets 35mpg. I tested a

GL320 V6 Diesel 3yrs ago that got average 32mpg hwy and weight was 5650LBS. Thats not what was released

though. It was turned down for the time being.They cant show their full hand at once. Had absolutley nothing to do

with our Marketing Dept.They have to leave room to do

incremental upgrades. Cameras just like most other products will plain out over time and the degree of

advancements arent as steep so they cant spend all their rounds in one shot. Save for the long haul. Oops, this

turned into a rant didnt it.

[jason_hall5]

While I am very sure there is truth to the idea that marketing has much say as to what does and does not make it into a new model, if fact I know that they do. However I have to agree that the article is a big heaping steaming pile of bull.......

 

Even if it is all true by some level of coincidence, this guy/gal has no real inside knowledge of it.

 

Jason

[ilkka_nissila]

<i>Save for the long haul</i>

<p>

What you're saying is that companies bring to the market products which are deliberately inferior to what they could bring out? That's just great, more industrial waste for future generations to deal with.

[erik_ingvoldstad]

Ilkka, you're right – but oh so wrong. The way the market works is that a market leader would have little incentive to bring out quantum leap technology, because they can make a larger profit by putting incremental improvements on the market. So there's your "those horrible large corporations" spiel. However, the best thing for the consumer is actually that the manufacturer restrains from putting the most cutting edge technology out there, because we all need cameras that work. The environmental impact is then actually lower, because tested technology often lasts longer than more experimental technology. In fact, according to a report by the New England-based environmental organization Clean Air-Cool Planet, Canon tops the list of 56 companies the survey conducted about climate-friendly companies (Wikipedia). And their Kyosei philosophy (living and working together for the common good) keeps them focused on sustainability.

 

In this day and age where internet based recommendations has taken over, releasing faulty or buggy technology has huge implications. Just look at the AF issues with 1D Mk3. Not only did it have massive impact on people buying the camera, it made potential 1Ds Mk3 buyers think twice also, and perhaps even potential buyers of other Canon products. The bad press from one 'minor' issue on a camera with a very limited target group gained a momentum that hurt the whole Canon brand. So by holding back, they make sure that the technology is useable not just desirable.

 

The original article, however, refers to pushing high MP over high IQ, a problem that is somewhat different – and very much connected to marketing. If you were the decision maker at Canon, you could either release a low MP camera with outstanding dynamic range, low noise etc. or participate in the MP 'arms race'. What would YOUR decision be? You would probably place your bet on the camera that will sell the most, and put Canon in front of the technology race? A lot of people will disagree, but the fact is that Canon has a long-term objective to make money. They're not making these decisions to upset their core user – quite the contrary. So by releasing a high MP 5D2, they're meeting customer demand – wether it's the 'right' or 'wrong' thing to do.

 

The good thing here is that by developing both high MP and high IQ sensors, as technology moves on, they merge into one (which we're starting see with the ISO setting of the 5D2). The future of digital imaging will be large sensors, high MP, high ISO, high dynamic range and high IQ. We can have it all, it just takes investment in technology.

 

P.S. I still have my trusted 1D2, with no plans (or money) to upgrade quite yet.

 

P.P.S. I also think the original article is bogus, it's just not the Canon way.

[markci]

It's a load of crap. The people who buy full-frame cameras aren't over-fixated on megapixels.

[eric merrill]

The only odd thing to me is that this is news.

 

At any major company, you're going to be able to find one disgruntled employee that'll talk smack about

the people putting a roof over his house and food on his table. If Canon were that misguided, then he

should be ashamed of continuing to work there. The words anonymous coward come to mind. If he

thought talking to the press was right, he would stand behind his words with his name.

 

 

Eric