Am I charging too much?

[tdigi]

Always discuss how much before the job begins. Many people think that art is cheap and a hobby therefore its in-

expensive. Since your kinda stuck and I am sure they where expecting it to be around $100 I like the suggestion of just

making it a donation and using it as a tax write off.

 

Also I think 24 hours of editing is a bit much. They where probably expecting to get some shots right from camera so I am

sure the few hours you spent shooting was all they where expecting to pay for.

[dirtlawyer]

You've learned a good lesson. NEVER, NEVER trust someone simply because he bears the title of minister. These folks have an incredible sense of entitlement.

 

My advice; write the thing off as a donation. Then next time negotiate your fee BEFORE you shoot.

 

BTW, while in practice, I donated huge amounts of time to my synagogue. I just thought it was the right thing to do.

[pavelp]

You should not include your learning of editing applications in your billed time. The client expects you to know your tools and be efficient when using them. Consider that time an investment that will pay-off later.

[dave_carleton]

I think it's the book of Matthew where it says "Its better to store up treasures in heaven than on earth."

 

Paraphrased obviously. Maybe Marten H. can fill it in a little.

[ajpn]

I like the idea of donating it too.

 

And if you're going to donate your work you could also ask the minister to recommend you for any weddings he may come across in the future.

 

There are all kinds of benefits you could work this into.

[christopher_m]

I agree with Marten Holmes take and suggestion.

 

It seems silly to charge your own church only to, presumably, donate money to it on a regular basis.

[waltonwhittaker]

If you give your work away for free, then everyone will expect the same. The mistake is in underpricing your work. Stick with your charged fee. People who get work for free never appreciate it; not really. When they pay for it, they appreciate it. If you act and charge like a professional, you will be treated accordingly. If you act and charge like an amateur, you will be treated like one. Be confident about your work and your prices. Giving it away and hoping for a payoff sometime in the future is never a good idea. The future may never come.

[dave_carleton]

Is it underpricing if we have already clearly stated a price and then clearly waived it as a donation? A special service to an institution special to the photographer?

[thomas_hardy1]

" If you give your work away for free, then everyone will expect the same."

 

Simple , do not give your work away to everyone. If you expect to get paid, set a price upfront.

 

Even more simple, don't deal (for money) with people you know at church.

[kris-bochenek]

I agree with Walton on charging for your work not necessarily charging church that you go to but anyone else. I shot a baptism for my wife's friend I thought more expirience for and I did it for free

they got over 150 photos burned on CD guess what? they told my wife that the photos were crappy and they expected way better images (posing wise) I said that they got it for free and I did my best so they should be happy because if they were to hire a pro they would have to pay few houndreds bucks. That was a last favor I did for them.

I also shot a picnic organized by church to raise some money but was told that it would be for free.

regards,

KrisB

[egfoto]

Personally I would find it hard to charge my church. An easy way since out since you have already submitted an

invoice would be to donate all the money back to the church.

 

Good luck!

 

Enrico

[marten_holmes]

Dave - well remembered (I had to look it up) the verse is Matthew 6:19-21. Great sermon there...but, not this forum!

[marten_holmes]

It seems to me that the issue/debate isn't so much as to whether one should do work for free, charge "mates rates" or even, as Jake originally asked, whether he charged too much. The issue is much more about whether poor communication on both sides has left all parties feeling discontent and with relationships cooled. So, how does Jake proceed in order to repair any damage to the relationships and his future integrity as a pro photog? It is for these reasons that I would make a donation of the feeand look on it as a learning curve.

[grant g]

I don't think you charged too much. A paid rate was implied and they asked you to do more.

 

My only real comment is that I charge less for regular post processing than I do for shooting time. To me, shooting time is what puts wear and tear on my camera equipment, which is far costlier than my related computer equipment.

 

The only time I charge a high rate to be at the computer is for 'complex' photoshop type work.

[Stock-Photos]

Think of what a pro would have charged for doing all the work you did!

 

Next time, get an agreement in writing before doing work for hire.

[jesseplummer]

This is just me and you can take it for what you want. I would do the job free. Place a copyright statement with your name on it on each image and allow the church to use them. Whether they use them for brochures, web sites, flyers or in TV ads, you name will be on them. I have used this technique for other situations where I expected little or no money. Churches, sadly, can be some of the worst clients. You may just approach the assistant minister and tell him the job is free on the condition that you be allowed to put your name and copyright statement on the images. You may also require them to seek your permission for use so that you will be fully aware of where the images will be used and can direct other prospective clients to see your work and use it as a portfolio. I did this for a church I was a member of and it worked out great. They had bulletin cover images and my copyright and name was displayed with each image for every use.

[photo_galleries]

You are using a pricing method that a pro would use without being a pro yourself.

 

You need to factor in the fact that had it not been your church, but rather just any other organization, you would not have been approached to begin with. That being the case, you probably should have just charged a token fee or nothing at all.

 

In the past, I've been asked by my church to shoot events attended by parishioners, their friends and families. I would typically shoot the event, and sell prints to the parishioners, and donate the money I make back to the church.

 

Manyof those who buy prints would then contract me for their private events, where I have made more than what I would have had I kept the money from church events.

[jimstrutz]

I think it's a personal decision if you want to charge your church or not. I wouldn't feel bad about it either way. I work for a church and know that churches are in business, and they (usually) understand that service costs money. They often hope for discounts and donations from business people, but they don't usually expect it.

 

However I think you overcharged. You essentially charged for your learning time with Photoshop. Not only that, but you charged for processing time in Lightroom, and then turned around and charged again for the same service in Photoshop. I know that I would not appreciate a mechanic charging to fix my transmission where I was paying for extra time while he is trying out a new tool, and then deciding that he should do it over with yet another new tool, and then I get billed for both of his learning exercises. That's just not right. If you are going to charge like a professional (even at a discount) then you have to act like one. 4 hours of shooting time shouldn't take more than 6 hours to process, adjust and edit. If you work slower than others, only charge for the customary time while you learn how to get faster.

[b_c12]

I think the suggestion above of accepting and depositing the payment, then giving it right back (on your bank) as a donation/tithe, is fantastic. That way, you can put it on your books as a paying job and feel good that your first gig provided a lot of value for a customer. At the same time, your church is receiving something they needed, that perhaps only you as a member of the congregation were able to provide. Seems like a win/win, as the gesture could easily lead to jobs for baptisms, birthday parties, even weddings someday. I'd think of it as primarily as a charitable gift, secondly as savvy marketing.

 

Good luck and nice job regardless of your decision!

[bill_keane2]

"NEVER, NEVER trust someone simply because he bears the title of minister. These folks have an incredible sense of entitlement."

 

Yeah, right. The fact is that the vast majority of clergy are often called upon, by police, area counselors, local government, and schools, to do hours of pastoral counseling and community related service, without any expectation of remuneration (not even a write-off). This isn't a bad thing, but it is a fact.

 

However, since the Assistant Pastor asked for hours to be kept, that presumes a desire to pay. Apparently, at the current stated rate, it's going to be over budget -- so, show a desire to help out, and make an agreement for the future at a lesser rate.

 

BTW, the receiving payment (which you will pay tax on) and writing a check back to the church suggestion, is a safe way to get some write-off. HOWEVER, just donating this service to your church MAY NOT be tax deductable UNLESS you are a professional photographer. Check with your accountant before filing this as a deduction.

 

I often spend hours doing media work for my town, with no monetary compensation, but since I am not a full-time media pro, I cannot write my hours off...

[jyl1]

Jake: I volunteer at my church taking pictures for the website and anything else they may need. I do this as a gift unto the Lord. But since the pastor asked to hire you he should definitely pay you for your time and effort. I suggest sitting down and talking with him one on one. He may not have any idea what a professional photographer costs, so he may have been taken off guard. Your prices are reasonable, but generally churches don't have a whole lot of disposable income, so they may be higher than the pastor was intending. You seem to have a good heart about this, and are trying to do the right thing, keep that heart when you talk to him. :o) Best wishes. Jill

[Ian Shalapata]

Jake,

 

There're two issues that no one seems to be considering.

 

1. Churches are one of the richest businesses around. They are exempt from paying taxes and pay their employees

next to nothing. And they've been at it for 1000's of years.

 

2. There's been no talk about the usage fees for the photos you took. They want to use the photos in brochures, ads,

and posters. How many? For how long? In what type of circulation? All things that have to be considered before

setting a rate.

 

My take on this is to "donate" the work to the church in exchange for a charitable donation receipt. You get a tax

break and a lesson, they get over 800 photos for free. Include the usage fees in the invoice you provided.

 

Next time, get everything in writing up front so no one is surprised.

 

Ian

[jimstrutz]

"Churches are one of the richest businesses around."

 

That is so funny on so many levels. The sad part is that some people actually believe it. That takes far more faith than believing in creation, and just proves the point that everyone's a believer... ...in something.

 

And I don't think I'm all that under paid either.