softbox or umbrella for the formal portraits

[goulden]

a question for the people who use bigger than just regular flashguns at weddings:

 

when using strobes outside for formal group portraits do you normally use a shoot through umbrella or a big

softbox. I'm not sure which will work best outdoors to evenly light groups of people from 3 to maybe 15, 20 people?

 

any advice you can share?

[ron_anderson6]

I have used an umbrella before, but have decided I need to get a softbox. Any wind at all, and the umbrella tries to get away. I hope the softbox will be easier to manage outdoors

[david_schilling___chicago_]

I still do not understand umbrellas or softboxes for the formals. The advantage of either is the production of soft light, however the softness is a function of the size of the light source relative to the subject. In this case to produce soft light requires placement very near your subjects. While this is possible for shots of the bride alone or the B and G, it is not practical for group shots. Perhaps the goal is directional light....in which case the use of speedlights on a stand fired remotely would seem a better solution. With the limited time available, I just cant see bothering with umbrellas or softboxes.

 

OTH. I do typically have a 10x10 backdrop at the reception where I do use umbrellas.

[goulden]

the purpose is soft fill light which doesn't give the harsh look that my canon 580 will normally give

[david_schilling___chicago_]

OK, the goal is soft fill light. Here's a couple of training DVDs to get you in the right direction: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/414626-REG/Blue_Crane_Digital_BC201_DVD_Understanding_the_Canon.html

and: http://www.photovisionvideo.com/store/shop.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=P&Product_Code=LLT028&Category_Code=DVD

[joshroot]

I use umbrellas. Smaller to pack, cheaper, easier to setup and maneuver.

[picturesque]

The key information here is the word, "outside". The points to consider are as follows. 1) While umbrellas and sofboxes do soften light, the softness is dependent, as David said, on light to subject distance. The ideal is for the umbrella or softbox to be as big as the distance from it to the subject. Obviously, for a group shot, this is impossible (or very unlikely). OK for the 3 people because you can bring the light close to them, but for 15, 20 people--the light will not be soft because it needs be farther away from the group. So it isn't always worth the trouble (wind and set up) to use them outside. 2) Outside, the light is usually already harsh (unless your subjects are completely in the shade), so using soft light is somewhat 'wasted'.

 

Otherwise, umbrellas are easier to set up. Softboxes are a pain to set up and take more time. Either one will blow over the wind unless you have someone to hold them down. Even with sandbags, I would worry about destroying my expensive lights.

 

When using strobes outside, I use them without any modifiers unless I can place it close to my subject, my subject is in even shade, and/or my lights are safe and won't blow over. When using the strobes 'plain', I use distance as my modifier. You can look up the theory on strobist.

[joshroot]

Excellent answer from Nadine.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Yes Josh, excellent answer from Nadine. I wish mine was as rich in information and resources.

[picturesque]

Just as an aside--a shoot through umbrella will have more of a hotspot than a softbox or a reflected umbrella, so a shoot through outside is making things worse (in size of illuminating light) than better.

[bob_osullivan]

In the situation you describe the softbox has little advantage over the umbrella. The main advantage of a softbox vs umbrella is that the softbox is more directional and causes less light spillage. This is simply not an issue in this situation. So, I'd go for the umbrella for the lighter easier use. Nadine makes some excellent points, but the hotspot issue with shoot through would be minimized outside. I think this could work for smaller groups but for larger groups I agree forget the light modifiers outside.

 

If the goal is softer light for large groups outside, I would consider using several strobes (without modifiers) at equal metered power to fill your shadows. This could be accomplished with the group in 3 rows of 5 people, with 3 lights right left and center at 45% down angle. Meter all three lights from the center point of the group and make sure all are adjusted to the same fstop. If there was time and an assistant available I would use studio strobes with a battery power pack. If that's not the case you could accomplish this with 3 580s in M mode on light stands.

[fotografz]

Using on-camera flash outdoors, I tend to use a more powerful barebulb type flash with a wide angle light modifier that will cover larger

groups fairly evenly. Quantum makes two W/A versions ... one silver, and the

other gold (so the artifical light can be warmer during sunset shots.)

 

When shooting with strobes outdoors ... one solution to eliminate umbrellas and softboxes is the use of a grid reflector and a 1/2

SOFTBALL light modifier ... this doesn't change the facts of a small light source, but

it does diffuse and mitigate the specular quality of direct strobe from a silver reflector, or no reflector at all. These aren't wind catches like

an umbrella or softbox, are easy to transport and are "instant use" with no

set up ... the Delta version, which fits any 7" grid reflector, is about $50. per light.

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=161761&is=REG

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Marc, that looks alot like a Stoffen omnibounce and I'll bet it works about the same.

[fotografz]

Hi David, actually it's really not like the Omnibounce ... which I also use.

 

This is used on more powerful studio strobes or mono-lights with a 7" grid reflector fitted ... the reflector itself disperses

light pretty widely, but it is somewhat specular in quality, and the half dome diffuser just softens it. While it's relatively

small, the dome design acts like a bigger light source when placed at a distance ... thus the B&H description as being for

use to light large groups.

[fotografz]

Here's another source, with 2 different versions of the Delta Soft Ball (which they call the "Ultimate Softbox") :

 

IMO, and experience, this is the perfect solution for wedding photographers that use strobes. Easy to transport, ready to go

immediately, and produces beautiful results. I also use a smaller version of the softball on my on camera barebulb flashes.

 

http://www.cpmdelta1.com/light_modifiers.htm

[picturesque]

Marc--what is the effect outside beyond cutting specular light? I can believe the softbox claim inside, with good reflective surfaces, but outside I have trouble believing that. I have the Quantum half ball diffuser from my Sunpak 120J, which would be similar except for the grid part. Can you elaborate?

[fotografz]

Nadine, the little reflector on a Quantum is not the same as ones for studio strobes ... many of which can be adjusted to alter the degree of coverage ... and if you

look at a standard Grid reflector for studio strobes they are shaped to really produce even light ... so that's doing the work just as direct strobe would ... all that the

ball does is soften the specular quality you'd get with direct strobe ... adjusting the distance as the modifier as you pointed out above.

 

Of course the opaque milkplex dome does cut the output ... but unlike our 120Js, my 600w/s mono heads aren't struggling with producing enough output when

shooting outdoors.

 

BTW, the ball with center grid version isn't the one I'm talking about ... it's the solid plex half dome ... which is much thicker and more opaque than the Quantum Ball

reflector, so light is bouncing all over the place inside the reflector before it exits.

 

It works. I use it frequently on commercial location jobs to light executives in the field or on build sites. I'm not saying it's the equal to a Elinchrome Octa box ... but

it's just as good or better than umbrellas and many softboxes which are a pain to handle, and can blow over.

 

Just think of it as modifying the specular quality of direct strobe.

[picturesque]

Marc--thanks for explaining. From what you say, and I understand the differences between a 120J reflector and studio strobe, the main effect is cutting specular light. May get one for my Dynalites.

[er1]

Thanks Marc... I plan on trying this myself on an upcoming shoot.