panorama 2 frames X 3 frames

[jtk]

I'm not a landscape photographer ...a former bow hunter, I'm inclined to follow trails that backpackers won't

follow.

 

I've come across a staggering, unobstructed, seemingly never-seriously-photographed miles-wide vista (roughly

28mm equivalent)... my DSLR, with exquisite prime lens renders it "adequately"...I want much better.

 

... I plan on a learning curve, time and a few hundred dollars into doing it justice with the DSLR. I see no

reason for film, don't want to deal with labs, and subtle HDR may be useful.

 

6 horizontal frames, 2 high and 3 wide, or a series of vertical formats should readily beat 6X7 film.

 

I'll repeatedly re-shoot in various weather situations. It's only a 4-5 hr drive from home, including the hour on

an overgrown BLM 4wd survey vehicle trail. Not much walking unless I discover an advantage in my next visit.

 

So...how do I do this?

 

a) What's better for panorama than Photoshop, used well?

 

b) What application would bring something important TO Photoshop?

 

c) For a manageable tripod (7# plus weights), what tripod head would you suggest?

 

d) Would a specialized panorama head be helpful? Doesn't Photoshop make that unnecessary? All I care about is the

outcome, not efficiency.

[photo_dark]

Well... my first question is... can we see this picture when your done?

 

I'm not much of a panorama photog... however...

 

a) I find photostitch works pretty darned good for the most part... might take a few careful steps though. I've never used it for more than stitching 4 vertical shots though, not sure how well it would work on a multi-axis pano.

 

b) huh?

 

c) Manfrotto makes a pretty wide selection... do you have a dealer close by? Also, Adorama's 'house' brand has some very affordable, lightweight, and apparently decent quality heads.

 

d) What lens/camera do you have to start with? I honestly don't see any benefit to purchasing any specialized equipment except perhaps a wider lens? Today's DSLR's (Canon 5D / 1D or Nikon D700 or D3) are getting pretty close to rivaling medium format without stitching.

 

Perhaps you should just pick up a used hasselblad and a wide angle lens and be done with it?

[rivi]

About a) and d), and maybe even c) I can tell that <a href="http://hugin.sourceforge.net/">hugin</a> with the

PTStitcher engine does the <a href="http://www.riviclaudia.de/gallery2/main.php/key/panorama">job for me</a>. Not

sure how photoshop works in matching points, and removing distortions and vignetting, but certainly hugin is a

very good and convenient tool at a hugely competitive price, namely zero.<p>

 

The Easter Island panorama was done with gimp alone, no stitching software then. A lot of work, though, and

impossible to get rid of all artifacts due to higher order distortions. The others were done with hugin,

transitions worked over in gimp. The East River is a double row panorama. There is one stitching artifact in the

iron structure on top left because it was rather close causing perspective distortion (i.e. due to hand held

camera motion). Only the night-view over Santiago was done with a tripod at all, all others were hand-held. <p>

 

If you don't include foreground, perspective distortion should not be an issue.<p>

 

I'm familiar with the linux version of hugin and can't comment on the windows one, but should work the same

nevertheless. It will probably still require some adaption of the transitions/layer masks in PS. Even with

flat-fielding (taking a shot of an evenly illuminated area to determine vignetting) some vignetting usually

remains, in particular in sky areas.<p>

 

I recommend that in the beginning you take series with several focal length settings (but the same for one single

series, makes it easier to correct for lens distortions). Wide angle seems a natural choice, but the lens

distortions and vignetting are more problematic than with more frames of longer focal length.<div></div>

[rivi]

PS: The Panorama of the baroque building in my link was constructed out of P&S images (I did not care much for

making transitions smooth in that one, so you can see how they look like unaltered), the others with Pentax

*istDS, except the observatory at nighttime, which was done with the K20D (and a tripod as well, 15 secs each

frame). hugin/PTStitcher can give a layered PSD-file as output, and can work with TIF as input.

[rivi]

PPS: I also use hugin for handheld HDR to match the individual frames. <a

href="http://www.riviclaudia.de/gallery2/main.php/v/THMC/party1.jpg.html">Works fine</a> within less than 1/10 of

a pixel RMS positioning error.

[steve_swinehart]

How you do the panorama depends upon the final format you anticipate, and how big you want the final print. In

general, you'll get better results (my opinion) using vertical shots. But, that again depends on the format of the final

image.

 

I'd work backwards from the final format you anticipate (layout the shot prior to shooting), and that should give you

guidance for how to setup the shot (H or V). You don't need a real panoramic tripod head (but, they really, really

make it easier) - I've used bubble levels to make sure the tripod platform is level through the entire panoramic pan

movement prior to making the exposures. My tripod has azimuth degrees marked on it, so I can setup the shot and

mark the points with a pencil to repeat the movement.

 

BUT, a real panoramic head adapter does something that just panning a standard head cannot replicate - it allows

you to put the lens' front nodal point above the pivot point. This gives much less distortion in the final image.

 

As for a tripod - I'm a 35 year Gitzo user - I have three of them - small, medium, and mondo-huge (Series 5

Cremailliere with a geared column - 110-inch height). The new carbon fiber models are amazingly light weight. I

have a friend that just purchased a new carbon fiber model and it makes my aluminum model of equal size (Series 2)

feel like you're picking up an anvil. Although, I'd probably get one of the Basalt models as they're in between

aluminum and carbon in both price and weight - and damp out vibrations a bit better.

 

Software: I haven't used CS3 for making a panorama - no comment. I've use Panorama Tools (the Max Lyons

Tabaware PTgui download). It's inexpensive, and worked okay. Although you need at least a 10-15% overlap

between images, and have to manually put in and tweak the control points.

 

Since I'm still using CS2, I'd probably look around at what's available today. You'd need unlimited pixel / image size,

automatic color and density correction / matching between images, HDR support, work with 8 + 16 bit images,

cylindrical and spherical correction, ability to work with PSD and TIFF files, etc.

 

AutoDesk (the AutoCad people) has a new version of their "stitcher" sofware in an "unlimited" (pricey) version and

an "express" version. ADG Panorama Tools is another good program as is Panorama Factory.

[garydem]

to make a pano in the same aspect of a regular FF shot do the following- all shots are in portrait mode. for a single image that has the width of the single FF go 1shot by 3 shots. the overlap is 33%. for a 2 row image 2 shots high go 4 shots wide. again all overlaps, (both vertical and horizontal), are 33%. the resolution of either will be much greater than a single shot., especially the 2 high and 4 wide. the equivelant of the 2x4 if shot with a 6mp camera is just over 24mps.

To do panoramas-

for panoramas- -use tripod. you must keep it level with the horizon. if your tripod does not have a level builtin then buy one that slides into your flash hotshoe. again make a max effort to get the camera level.

-for exposure. set the exposure by pressing halfway and noting the fstop and shutter speed. you are trying to find the brightest part of you panorama scene to be. once you have found the brightest check the fstop and shutter speed. put camera into manual metering mode and use those settings. do not change them for any part of the panorama.

-lens selection. i shoot mine with a 20mm. note: SHOOT THE LENS VERTICALLY. this is the only way to get some vertical scene, otherwise the panorama will be shaped like a hotdog. this is why i went to a 20mm. in vertical you are cutting your angle of view way down. my tripod has degrees engraved in the mount, i was shooting at only a 15 degree spread and in looking at the shots before stitching there wasn't that much overlap. i later shot panoramas with 35mm 50mm 70mm; the hot dog effect was more pronounced. the panorama itself did work. With higher mm lens you would have to go to double rows.

-determine in advance the center point of the scene and try to go X number of shots on each side of it. for me with my setup a 120 degree scene is 7 shots; the center and 3 on each side. if i go with a 35mm lens then a 120degree scene will take 13 shots. no matter what lens you use realize that you are adding only 33% new scene with every shot, the rest is overlap for the right and left adjoining shots. the only exceptions are the end shots in the whole scene. it is possible to add another row above and/or below the first one. this would help the vertical look especially if you are using a 50mm or longer. for multiple rows are the same as 1 row, but you know have to overlap on the vertical as well as the horizontal. you must make sure that there are no gaps.

- i stick my hand in front of the lens and shoot, then shoot the panorama, the 7 shots, then put hand in front of lens and shoot. later i know that everything between hands is the panorama.

-i have used cs2 or the panorama factory software to make the panorama. for either couldn't be simpler simply select the shots and it does the work. this is where using a level pays off. the software is leveling the scene to make the long rectangle, but if the scene was not as level as possible in the first place the vertical becomes less and less(you end up with hotdog shape). so having the tripod and camera level is very important. also when mount and shooting vertically make sure the camera really is vertical, carefully check by looking threw the viewfinder. some tripod vertical adjustments actually go past true vertical, mine does even though it says 90 degrees.

-be sure to use a cable release or the selftimer.

-on focusing- what i do is to simply preset the 20mm lems at infinity, because of depth of field everything from 5.64ft to infinity is in focus at f11.0 distance 200ft. you can also use a hyperfocal focus setup. but thanks to the DOF table, just setting the lens at infinity is simpler. -i left WB alone, that is set at AWB; or you can use a preset setting like sunny or cloudy, but once set do not change it till panorama shots are done.

-online depth of field calculator available here- http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

-parallax error. It is usually not so much a problem outdoor shooting. This is because the distances are greater than inside. In any event if you shoot panoramas outside and at short distances OR any inside any building, you should be thinking of getting a panorama tripod head. This is to eliminate parallax error. I have the panosaurus pano head, cheap durable, and it works.

-for panoramas, the software i use is either panorama factory orPTGui or cs2. the one that works best for me is PTGui. i have since gotton PTGuiPRO, expensive but worth it. has many features and abilities that the other software does not have, including the ability to process 360 and 720degree spherical panoramas, plus many projection types and it does raw and hdr panos.

-on post shooting work. If jpeg DO NOT PP. just use as is. After the pano is made then pp as desired. If raw, does your panorama software do raws? Not all do. If yes raw batch convert only. Do not adjust any 1 shot. All shots must be the same before the pano is made, then do any pp you wish but on the whole pano.

If any pp work is done to the pano before stitching then there will be a difference in the sections, and you could(probably?) get vertical bands where the sections join.

Any questions, please ask. gary

<div></div>

[steve_swinehart]

The worlds largest panoramic image was created with this software -

 

http://www.autopano.net/

[jtk]

Thomas, Steve, Gary...thanks for your insights.

 

I'm shooting from a cliff that rises immediately about 500' above the average foreground.

 

There's nothing man-made or otherwise straight to worry about....but my concern is the foreground, which is a

desert, full of small details (stunted pines, sagebrush, abandoned farm plots). The top 60% of the image will be

clouds, not too critical.

 

I'm using a K20D (14.6mp) ... The current 1-shot detail is impressive in its way on 11X17, but it ultimately

prints a bit muddy (partially due to dot size of Epson 2200 on matte paper...hopefully to become a

higher-resolution 3800, printing on semi-gloss before long). .

 

I initially shot this with Pentax 21/3.2, an exquisitely good lens that's perfect width for this with one shot...

roughly a 30mm on 35. So yes, this could readily be done with a 47 on 6X7 ...but I'd rather shoot digital than

deal with photo labs

 

To minimize distortion wouldn't it be best to do this with a longer lens, eg 50mm equivalent (my 35/2.8 DA

macro) ? If I moved up to 70mm I'd have to merge too many files.

 

I do have a heavily flogged 1970 Gitzo Studex and the head does indicate degrees, so I guess that's part of my

answer.

[garydem]

for what you are talking about, a pano is the way to go. but you should not be thinking of a 1x3 or 2x4 seires of shots then put together. though that will work and give you a much better image that the single 21mm one.

 

the shot that is attached is a 28shot, 14 in each of 2 rows. in pixels it is 14231x3839 or 54.6mps. that till very recently was bigger than any sensor made. the detail is not really visable in the web, but in the 12x45 print or viewing the original tiff on my monitor the detail is incredable. the foreground grasses and bushes can be seen in every leaf or twig while the bridge on the left has all the details in its structure visable. the bridge is 5 miles long. the image is 120degrees. the tiff is 265mb, while the jpeg is 18mb. it was shot with my *istD and the 70mm limited lens.

 

i would suggest that you make a lot of preparation and give it a lot of thinking and do the same thing.

i used my pano head on my second tripod. the pano tripod does not have to a very good one, because the lenses you are going to use are not very high in mm. the 70 limited is all i am ever going to use at the high mm end. for your purpose you could go to 3 or 4 rows and not carry the width to 120 degreees, like i do. simply stop at at 60-90 degrees. if you still wantb the result to be a 3:2 aspect simply use a calculator to figure out the number of shots. though isf you going to go to multiple rows a super strongly urge you to use a pano head. i bought the panasaurus and am very satisfied. it may not look as fancy as some but it works and it cheap. it can be had for $79US without the tower accessory. it can also be used for QTVRs, which i have used it for.

 

on a separate note i would urge you, if you want super detail, to print or have it printed on full glossy paper. i get my enlargements above 8x10 printed at kodakgallery.com or jumbogiant.com and always use their full glossy paper. i am not about to put the kind of effort it takes to make a big print and be able to see the detail. i heartally recommend jumbogiant.com for regular and panorama prints. they do a good job and are fast service. jumbo prints panoramas to 20x80 inch prints at the max size.

also, note that the bigger the print the larger the expected viewing distance. example- a 20x30inch print is normally seen at 6-7ft viewing distance.<div></div>

[greg lockrey]

I use AutopanPro. You can practically shoot handheld. This is a 2 x 10 with the camera in vertical position.<div></div>

[jtk]

Gregory and Gary, great examples.

 

 

...other than laboring with Photoshop, trial and error, is there a way to even out densities at sky splices?

 

hmmm... my 85/2 has excess coverage on APS...that would minimize density issues at edges of frames and it's effective 105mm would surely eliminate distortion issues.. might pay off.

[rivi]

A big image circle will reduce the vignetting, indeed. However, the distortion will still be an issue. As a principle, there is distortion between both sides of your frame, just because you're trying to map part of a sphere to a plane. Using longer focal length makes it easier to correct the individual frames, because the differential distortion from frame to frame is smaller, but the overall distortion will be he same, so you'll need a distorion correction in any case.

[JeffOwen]

It's a while since I last stitched a pano. The one that was 14 frames across was the hardest but most rewarding. I have tried several auto stitching programs and none really fitted my needs so I always resorted to full manual effort in PS.

 

I don't have a pano head tripod but wished I had as on occasions foreground subjects have had parallax errors. I nearly always shoot in portrait mode with plenty of overhang. I only once did a double scan but found it was not really worth the trouble post production.

[jtk]

Thomas, what specific "distortion correction" tool or method do you recommend?

 

Thomas's fine example: http://www.riviclaudia.de/gallery2/main.php/v/holidays/IdP/panorama7.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1

 

Jeff, which stitching programs disappointed you ?

[rivi]

Well, should work with any of the above. Here's my personal "workflow" for panoramas:<p>

 

I use a program like hugin (autopano works perfectly fine as well for this, mostly because they work with the

same libraries in the background afaik, don't know the others) to align and correct distortion. The program will

determine distortion automatically from matching points in neighbouring frames (you may have to chose those

points manually, the stitcher will then optimize them only). I then will choose type of projection (usually

cylindrical) and possibly straighten the horizon, but usually I will not allow the program to make any further

correction, like exposure or colour. <p>

 

The program output I chose will not be a single image, but rather individual frames, each of the size of the final

panorama with the corrected image at the right position, or a layered PSD, again with each layer holding one

corrected image at the right position, and the layer mask is what would be used by stitcher to create the final

image. The resulting image will not have straight borders (see <a href="http://autopano.kolor.com/">here, scroll

one down</a> for an example. This is actually a free version of autopano, but without any GUI convenience and

probably less sophisticated), so shoot more than you want to have crop space.<p>

 

If the frames were not stupidly blundered by me or the camera (like a P&S applying different white balances on

individual frames, or having different exposure levels within one series), I would leave the image frames mostly

alone and work only on the masks to achieve nice overlap without obvious borders. Brightness diffrences due to

vignetting should be hideable in most cases in naturally occurring borders, e.g. clouds; only for the flawlessly

blue sky in the east river

panorama the sky is actually an artificial gradient.<p>

 

In your special case, parallax error seems not likely to me, which is the second main reason why I have to work

over my panos outside the stitcher, so this would not apply to you.<p>

 

As a disclaimer, I should add that I am quite experienced with my operation system (linux) and programming in

general, so it would never have occurred to me to buy something I can setup for myself, even if I'd have to dig

in the system and work on the command line rather than with a GUI. However, I have not the faintest idea if and

how this would work for windows.

[garydem]

john k-to minamize sky splices always allow for a large overlap. i use 33% in my panos or QTVRs. that is, 1/3 old material and 2/3 new image material. if multi rows that is for both the vertical and horizontal overlaps. this lets the pano software do its best. the software i use is PTGuiPro 7.8, the current version. it is simply the best. unfortuneately so is the price tag. i tried cs2 pe6 and serifs and panorama factory including there most current version. the one that i had was PTGui which i upgraded to PTGuiPro. it allows for sky uneveness and many other image faults and corrects them during the pano making process. as i said the software has other capabilities that others do not have including the abilioty to make panos from the untouched hdr original images, spherical panos be it 360 or 720degrees. it also has a version of infusion builtin. and you can add pano tools as an addon so you can make the panos with pano tools stitcher or PTGui's stitcher. there is also no limit as to the amount of images in mbs you can use. somewhere in the website they recommend that if it is a giant pano you set it up and start it and go to bed in the morning your pano will be waiting for you. my 28 shot pano of the straits of mackinaw was about 850mb before it was processed into its 265mb tiff. because of the size of the total mbs of the images make sure you are not running much in the way of programs when you stitch if you have a lot of images. remember i hit 850mbs with 28images and they were jpegs.

 

the one point i want to emphasis is get a pano head for any serious panos. i like my panosaurus. and also this is no time to skimp and on any technique shortcuts. to get good results you have to use all the time care effort skill and knowledge you have. i cannot say that strongly enough.

if you are good with your field camera work you can shoot jpegs, if so so you are going to have to go with raw. if raw only batch convert then stitch. for either format do your pp after on the whole image. for my pp i use pe6 and use focus magic auto levels auto contrast noise ninja. no sharpening if focus magic is used, it is guerenteed to make artifacts if both are used. save as tiff. it will be big if more than just a few original images are used. i then convert the format to jpeg 12 quality to send to jumbogiant.com for printing.

 

note for my QTVRs i do a batch pp with pe6. doing a auto level auto contrast and auto shrapening all at once. those images are into PTGuiPro for making the QTVR. the batch pp is done to jpegs first because the mov file of the QTVR cannot be pp after. at least with any of the software i have which includes cs2 and pe6 and others. also you need Quicktime 7.x or higher to view the QTVR. i do not know whether QuicktimePro can pp the mov file since i do not have it.

[greg lockrey]

John Kelly , Aug 28, 2008; 10:13 a.m.

Gregory and Gary, great examples.

 

...other than laboring with Photoshop, trial and error, is there a way to even out densities at sky splices?

 

AutopanoPro is so sophisticated that you do not need to identify which files to use in your pano. Say for example you

shot 4 different panos in a day and you upload all of your files to an address. AutopanoPro will identify which files go to

which pano including HDR and will do most of your corrections automatically. If however you do see an issue then you

can manually override the stitching procedure yourself. I am very new at this myself and have used CS3 which does a

good job too but can take over an hour even on my very fast Mac. AutoPpanoPro will do the same file in minutes

including setting up several panos at the same time. Well worth the $145 I paid for it.

[neil_bowlby]

If you're serious about panoramic photography, check out PTAssembler:

 

http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr.htm

 

and have a look at Max Lyons forums:

 

http://www.tawbaware.com/forum2/