Kiev 88 vs Mamiya TLR

[icog]

HI,

 

I'm using a Mamiya C22 for landscapes and portraits. I'm pleased with the results but sometimes the process gets

in the way. (Think using polarizers on a tlr.) I like the camera but am wondering if I'd be better served by a

SLR. I have of course drooled over the Hasselblad ads but even used they're out of my reach. (I've checked

everywhere.) I ran across the Kiev 88 and all it's variants on ebay and was thinking that it seems to fit the

bill, especially price. I'll have to sell the Mamiya kit to make the switch but I should be able to afford a

couple lenses also.

 

I've searched the archives and most of the posts are pre 2005. I've found a kit that has been CLA'D by a

reputable shop so those concerns are answered. I guess I'm just wondering if I should do it or not. Does anyone

out there have experience with both and would you be willing to share your insight. For that matter insight on

the differences good or bad between the two systems.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Lionel

[patrick j dempsey]

The C330 has a little more automation like auto shutter cocking and auto parallax compensation that your C22 lacks... and there are metered finders available for it as well. Mamiya made an auto polarizer for their cameras, but I don't know how many different versions there are to fit the different lens filter diameters, and I don't know how hard it is to find, but it would be cheaper than investing in a whole new system I suspect.

 

Otherwise, I don't think the 88 has much to offer over it other than SLR viewing... and certainly not reliability. .

[kari v]

I haven't seen much posts about reliability of properly CLA'd Kiev88, most comments seem to be about stock or cheap e-bay bodies.

 

I use modified and CLA'd Kiev60 (Arax60 MLU) that works like charm but try googling for user comments about Kiev60...

 

I don't know. But I do know that you can use cheap but good Zeiss-Jena lenses with Kiev. Especially 50/4 and 180/2.8 are very good indeed. I paid about 100 euros each in perfect working condition so that shouldn't bust your wallet. (Please don't convert that into dollars at today's rate ;) For portraits CZJ 120/2.8 could be a good choice. The 80mm Arsat isn't a bad lens (and well under $100 even new) but for a bit more you can buy CZJ 50/2.8.

[rjjackson]

hi lionel,

 

i have all three cameras you mention. don't switch.

 

it's hard to advise on why to keep a mamiya without sounding like i am bashing the kiev. in short, in my experience, you will seriously regret compromising on reliability and sharpness wide open if you switch. i like kiev/saliut for a conversation piece and shooting a roll just for the sake of shooting it. i have never considered them reliable tools, though. if you want a more detailed list of some problems you will face, feel free to email me.

 

rj

[dweezil]

I'd have jave to go wit kari here and cast a vote for the kiev 60.

The rebuild arax version seems to be a very good deal and even the new price with 80 mm 2.8 lens is less than 400

$ and it allows you to use the pentacon six mount lenses including the Zeiss lenses.

[wolf_rainer_schmalfuss]

The KIEV 88 (or WIESE-PENTASIX 636) is a solid good camera, if this camera is check and adjusted properly. The same is with the different lenses. They are very good, if properly assembled.

 

Don't trust any of these "kitchen factory" made Kiev cameras! They are coming from flee market and are painted freshly so that you think to have a brand new camera. They are not worth any money.

 

Cheers

[User_503771]

In my reading I've noticed many people voting for the Kiev 60 because it is less mechanically complicated than the Kiev 88.

 

The lenses are basically the same, just different mounts, at least on the older ones.

 

Agreed, the Mamiya optics are sharper when the TLR lenses are properly calibrated, but you've got great selection with the Kiev and Pentacon lenses.

 

In any event, if I were to go with the Kiev (which I have in the past, and I've also used the Mamiya TLRs), I'd go with the 60, and get one of the rebuilt ones, new with a nice warranty. Go ahead and get some lenses, but also try to get a second body as soon as possible, for a backup. And try to stay flexible enough that you can replace a lens at any time.

 

I'd bet that the newer lenses are built better than the older ones; I've read that quality control has actually been improving over time. And when you get a good sample of one of the lenses, they really are pretty good, especially stopped down some.

 

Of course, if you're looking for terrific build quality and reliability with terrific optics, stick with what you have. You'll miss it if you sell it off and switch. The Mamiya gear really is pro quality; by all accounts the Kiev lines aren't.

[icog]

Wow!!

 

Such a disparity in answers. Well except for the advice to go with a Kiev 60 and not an 88. The ability to change film in the middle of a roll is intriguing but since I normally shoot either color or black and white another body will fill the bill. I've been reading since I posted and with that and the consensus here I've decided to go with the 60 just for the simplicity and less expensive repairs. I think I'll be able to hang on to the Mamiya by buying a body and having it fixed later. Besides it's good for me to practice patience. Thanks one and all for the advice and input.

 

-Lionel

[robert lee]

Right, so I'm not sure why the Kiev is really worth bothering with.

 

A complete Mamiya RB-67 Pro-S kit can be had for $300 from a reputable second hand dealer like KEH, and less on the open market. This is a no nonsense, designed for pro work, bank your livelihood on 6x7 SLR - interchangeable back, bellow focusing, the works.

 

I've got two RB's. They won't let you down mechanically. When the images I shoot with these aren't satisfactory, it's never because of camera or optic deficiencies.