Can't quite get the quality of reflections on a model. Advice please?

[bluphoto]

I've been trying to get the sort of lighting found in the picture linked below - to get the high contrast, yet long streaks

of light on the models arms and legs.

<p>

<a href="http://mayhem-photos.s3.amazonaws.com/070502/06/46386b8430990.jpg">Photo by Thorsten

Jankowski</a>

<p>

Instead, I'm struggling to achieve the contrast needed. I'm also struggling to get the "length" of reflection shown on

that photo. My highlights tend to me more localized (see my own example) <p><a

href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?

photo_id=7171172&size=lg">Photo by me</a>

<p>

There's just something about this photographers pictures that I just can't quite get. Any advice or tips would be very

much appreciated.

<p>

Should I be using a larger light source - if so, long and narrow or big and round/square? Should I be using a darker

skinned model? Should I be lighting the background more? Is it simply about the angle of incidence of the light? etc.

<p>

thanks guys and girls.<br />

Guy

[btmuir]

One thing, the photo by T. Jankowski you linked was shot with a wide angle lens which stretches the limps closest to the

camera. This technique is used when the model is shorter that desired or for other creative distortion effects.

[Matt Laur]

Indeed, a (much!) larger light source... but I'm also seeing a significantly oilier appearance on the model's skin. The shadows on Jankwoski's shot suggest that the source is directly overhead or nearly so (note her eyes, too... he probably would have liked to have filled there a bit, but it would have reduced the contrast that otherwise makes the effect work), probably out on a boom or rail system.

 

As Bruce mentions - a pretty short focal length to exaggerate perspective distortion. That has the added complication, though, of requiring the light source to be that much farther out of the way because of the wide angle provided. Which means that the light source (as it moves even a foot or two farther off) has to be that much larger.

[ellis_vener_photography]

your lighting is very different from Jankowski's , the poses are very different and the first model is much more heavily oiled, other than those minor things I see no difference. I suspect your studio space is a lot smaller too.

[edouard.boily]

To me, it looks like Jankowski used oil on the model's arms, legs and feet.

 

- Edouard

[bluphoto]

Thanks guys, Yeah, my studio space is about 15-20ft square (my garage), but it does have a high ceiling, which is a bonus (probably not as high as his though!).

 

I did build a softbox out of 1x2", foamcore wrapped in foil and white lining material, which looks the part and does work (albeit vertically only), but it's pretty much relegated to the floor, and can't be physically attached to my Elinchrom head unit, which has to be mounted on a separate light stand and positioned behind it, poking through a hole in the back. It IS about 6ft x 3ft though, but I'm not sure my D-Lite 4's are up to filling it. Hoisting the whole kit and kaboodle into a horizontal position overhead wouldn't be much fun, and I sure wouldn't like to be a model lying underneath it! Maybe I could hang the front diffuser only, and one or two head units above it, pointing downwards (although exactly how I'd control them remains a mystery at this stage).

[bluphoto]

How about permanently hanging the diffuser (or another one the same) with a half a dozen 100W household tungsten lights behind it, controlled by a series of dimmer switches, or even standard switches so I can dim the whole thing simply by switching some bulbs on or off? For B&W I guess I don't have to worry too much about colour temperature. I wonder how much light I'd need to keep the shutter speed above, say, 1/60th @ f8 or so at a light - subject distance of, say, 8ft.

[mike dixon]

Another vote for oil being a big factor in the large specular highlights. It looks like she has a heavy coating of freshly-applied, thin oil (like vegetable oil). Here's an example of the effect of a light coating of olive oil mixed with water lit by a medium softbox:<P>

<center><img src="http://mikedixonphotography.net/shellybw10.jpg"></center><br>

A heavy coating of undiluted oil would have provided more-sharply-defined specular highlights.

[bluphoto]

I figured oil was a big part of it, so I asked the model befaore the shoot for some advice when it comes to oils etc.

She suggested a product I had not head of before called baby oil <b>GEL</b> Apparently it doesn't sink in quite so

quickly as the normal baby oil.<p>

 

Perhaps vegetable oil would have been more approprate, although even with that gel, the model had a mild reaction

with some areas of her arms and legs turning red and blotchy - I'm guessing other oils would have a greater reaction.

[ellis_vener_photography]

'a half a dozen 100W household "

 

That is 600 watts at full power, which is roughly equal to a 40-60 watt-second flash. In short order It will also make for a very uncomfortable small working space if there is no ventilation. Rather than go through that hassle, use a large umbrella with your Elinchrom and then hng the diffusion scrim (which can be a s simple as a frosted shower curtain) in front of that rig, Hang it fro mthe ceiling fro m the ceiling and tie it off to a couple of stands to adjust the angle.

 

But yeah it is all about the oil and the lighting.

[bluphoto]

Thanks Ellis,

I'll try to jury-rig something together - next stop... umbrella shop.

[nathan_stiles]

Umbrella?

 

I agree w/ the oil, and perhaps it's Pam, which is used for some beach shoots here in Tampa.

 

But, I think it's a large overhead softbox, w/ flags used to think out the spread like a strip softbox. Umbrellas give a round reflection, and you are asking for long rectangular ones.

[frolickingbits]

If you have two heads and a couple super clamps, I would clamp those to your garage ceiling and hang a white sheet between the two walls below the lights to act as a scrim. Make sure you flag the light out of your lens, and use barndoors on the lightheads to control the spill somewhat.<br><br>

Ideally, you would want at least a 4x5 foot softbox on a boom overhead, and black walls to stop spill from coming in to the set. As others have mentioned, oil will help out a lot too. It looks like Thorsten's photo was lit entirely with one overhead softbox.

[bob_bill]

To get the degree of specular highlights you envision, you need the right oil -type product. You may want to experiment to find the degree of shine you want before making the shoot. As bodybuilders, we pose under intense lighting and want to have a sheen, not a shine to prevent the hard earned muscle cuts and striations being lost in the highlight. The above photo is into shine. Back stage you will see a variety of products used, but with some products, the increasing the amount can move more towards the shine. I rarely see baby oil used, but Pam cooking spray Canola ( not olive oil because I dont want to smell like a salad ), is probably most used (then a healthy multi tasker of leftovers to the kitchen when we restrict fat intake), you can dab it with a towel if you apply too much or gradually build it up for more highlight without having to touch the skin. My personal favorite is Hawaiin Tropic dark tanning oil, $6- smells great, can be used to tan before and after and is thicker so it doesnt run-could be important if you are using hot lights or in our case a close competition so on stage under the lights for 15 minutes straight. That brown sweat bead (from the stain) running down my chest wasnt cool. An article I read on having a bodybuilding photo shoot recommended Bed and Bath body butter- expensive at $15/tub but it gives a nicely balance highlight. Its a great moisturizer. The shiniest one I believe was mango, an orange gel. If you dont like it, I'll bet your wife or girl friend will. We also use stain intended for skin to darken it to bring out the textures under the lights. If you want to experiment, Pro tan is $15 a bottle, is probably the most used and each coat takes the skin darker. Unfortunately to me smells like fish oil and hard to get out of clothes. It is tediously applied with a small foam brush and is a pain to coat an entire body 4 or 5 times(or just use a spray gun). I have been using Jan Tana Competition tan, dark formula (same price), that is applied by putting on surgical gloves and just like wiping on like a creamy sunscreen, except it turns you dark brown, almost black with several coats. Goes on quick and even, doesnt splatter or smell bad. Both wash off in couple of days. If you dont have a bodybuilding nutrition store in the area, both are available on line. Last, we also shave the entire body, removing hair also helps with a nicer sheen and doesnt hide the cuts/striation and form of the individual muscles. That includes the velum, fine hairs on arms and abs of women. Shaving areas not conditioned to shaving for at least a few weeks may have been the reason for you model's rash- razor burn-especially if it didnt appear on legs where she probably usually shaved. We clipper trim the entire body when we start tanning a few months out to prevent white areas under hair and an uneven tan, then switch to a more time consuming but closer razor the last few weeks to prevent razor burn on contest day. In the above photo, I cant see the eye catchlights, but from the under nose shadow, it looks like the main light was in a butterfly high front but low enough and body posed so chin shadow out of the way and light the front face plane only. Doesnt look like any low clam shell fill but maybe subtractive below based on the hard dark shadows below the arm and eye socket. Looks like he got the head up just enough to light the eyes, but retain the intense mood by keeping area just above them in shadow(perfect hair style for this mood, too). Great work . Just checked the maker, no wonder, it was Mike. Multiple hard, restricted lights are often used to produce additional highlights/ rim light in specific areas or bkgd separation. Here, dark edge shadow provides a wonderful separation/merging with the bkg bkgd in keeping with the overall mood. I even like the nose highlight as a leading line into the sultry eyes and the ear highlight to keep the viewers eye in that area. Love the pose too, the elbows echoing the shape of the hidden breasts. Torso angled just enough to reveal the shadow at the oblique/ab separation, barely suggesting the belly button and the shadow revealing the wonderful form of the ab. Not sure how much of it is from burning. Wow. Well done. The kind of image, the more you look at it, the more you like it. I wonder what kind of camera he was using? Mike will get the joke, a reference to the gear fixated, this was not camera dependent, it was artist created.

[ridic_wilco1]

you're gunna wanna use a something like a beauty dish to get this type of lighting - i'm not sure if this source is round or not but regardless i think it's got that beauty dish look to it~

[wick beavers photographer]

Hello my man:

If I wanted to copy this I would:

1) Grease up the model tons.

2) Those lights are made with light banks/strips really long thin boxes or tube lights. Profoto makes 1x6 collapsible strip boxes or

get some tubes at Home depot.

3) The light is hard, ie undiffused, so you need to use hard light to copy- pull out the diffusion sheets in those light banks/strips. Or

focus the flouros...

4) The light looks both reflective (the grease) and refracted (the non-diffused light banks/strips + skin), you can't control the directly

reflected but you can the refracted with polarizing stuff and output power. Polarizers will cut down glare/flare but they won't kill the

overexposed direct relflections, which is kinda what you want. So, no need for polarizers!

5) Underexpose the shot a tiny bit (I would rather expose right and underexpose in Photoshop cuz you never know what you may

want from the image in 23 minutes or 6 years) and process in Photoshop.<div></div>

[wick beavers photographer]

one other thing is you gotta get your lights parallel to the limb grease you wanna reflect off- set the light evenly on the same plane as

the surface you wanna light. You were using a point source aimed at/closest to the shoulder. Try using a strip or long tube with

narrow reflector aimed even distance from a whole arm, back or leg in same angle, parallel to that limb. Remember light falls off in

the inverse square law, so to get even lighting all the way up or down a limb, you gotta have the light evenly distanced all the way up

or down, right?

So just set the light parallel to your selected limb.

Wick

www.wickbeavers.com