Feeling totally overwhelmed by competitors....where do I start?

[tana_d.]

Ooooo, Noel, you are in so much trouble.

 

Hell hath no fury....

[pete_appleby]

Hi Liz,

 

Would you be able to put some of your images up on here so we can take a look?

 

Pete

[laverephoto]

You are so new at this that I would expect you to be overwhelmed as you say. First, image quality and artistry are very important.

People with real money to spend usually figure out how to get something above average. Fashion trends are extremely important to

understand. The key for an inexperienced photographer is to have ONE thing you can do very well and show it market it and shoot it.

Don't even try to shoot things that are not your forte' until you can show a sample that you can impress yourself and others with. Post

images on this site and ask specific advice about how to improve them.

 

Your mwac business model is just like amway, once you have exhausted your friends and family you are going to hit a big wall without

good marketing. That said your best marketing can be done cheaply because you are looking for word of mouth referrals, not any Jane

off the street. So how do you market? Network and enjoy it! Use a blog instead of a traditional website. A blog can be used to

generate interest up front and connect with your client's friends and family afterwards. Make it personal! Use social networking sites to

direct your real friends and family to your blog. Meetup.com might give you an opportunity to develop a play group or babysitting coop.

Facebook.com might get you reconnected with old friends.

 

The marketing needs to be in place now, so that you can benefit from the improvements in quality and service that you are going to

have to work on.

 

I have over ten years experience in commercial and wedding work. I have mostly worked for other photographers. I have come to

believe through my own errors that it is better to sell one thing you can do well than to try to be a great all around photographer. So,

focus like a laser on creating one fashionable high end product you can be proud of, then blog, network, and show it to everyone you

know.

[kris-bochenek]

But, how to start it how to get the first customers?

[fullmetalphotograper]

Kris, that is easy. Show your work, Show your work. Show your work. Develop a marketing plan and one the most simple

things of all have a business card. Pass it out.

[knockknocking]

Greetings!

 

I'm one of those MWACS and I'm kinda in the same position as you just a bit further down the road, and on occasion still feel the same way. Thanks to your question, I'm now a little wiser as well! There have been some rather harsh comments here, which I noticed seemed to be from photographers who are 'doing it for fun' and not in the business themselves (I could of course be wrong!). Then there are ones such as Corri's, thank you! You've given me some brilliant ideas!

 

I'm lucky, my first (and current) client is a friend and I do commercial interior shots for him. These are not my passion, but they do pay the bills and allow me to go out and take images that do stoke my passion and the more I do the better I get and hey, I now enjoy doing interiors, they're a challenge. Don't try to re-invent the wheel, ask your clients to bring examples of the sort of work they like, then add your twist and better it. I've also since discovered that I like taking photographs of kids! Shock horror, I don't even mind acting like a loon to get them to smile (lol). What I have also found helps, is let drop, in EVERY conversation you have that you are a photographer. The more people who know you are the more contacts and referrals you'll get. Make sure your friends are aware that you are serious about it! And I can not stress enough, get business cards! Use them as a way to pass on your phone number to new friends etc, find any excuse to hand them out. And those that say you need to learn your craft are correct, up to a point! Do night classes, which is what I did while my son was quite young. Then as some have said, practice, practice, practice! (Digital makes this cheap, not like the 'old' days ;-p) . I have discovered to my delight that I'm happy to photograph anything, the subject may not rock my boat, but my camera is in my hands so I'm happy! And hey, someone is going to pay me for it! (PS I'm 35 so a late comer to this business).

 

My first camera was a Canon EOS10 and I also bought second hand lenses. Then I was lucky, my husband decided to get me a Canon 5D for Xmas (which I'm still paying for!). Not everything has to be new (it's nice if it is, but not strickly necessary), you just have to be careful what you buy. Second hand digital, in good condition, is much cheaper. You don't need to have the latest gadgets, you just need to be good with what you have. It's also the lenses, good lenses are a must, even if they are second hand. Scout out the charity shops, the can be a gold mine! One of my 'hero's' (sally mann) uses a hundred year old camera!

 

As for websites. . well I built my own using a program that came with my apple computer. It's hosed by fasthosts (ﾣ3.99 a month). It wasn't difficult to build and I have had very positive feed back about it. It's not perfect, yet but I'm working on it all the time. (www.feraphotography.co.uk if you want to have a peek and any comments are welcome).

 

One last comment, develop a positive attitude and a thick skin. You can't please everyone, and there will always be those who have valid points, but no tact. Take it on the chin, annalise what they've said see if it's valid, change what needs to be changed otherwise stick two fingers up and ignore them. If you disappoint a customer do everything within your power to make it right and admit straight out that you fluffed it, if they still aren't happy you can say you did everything you could and you just have to shrug. These things happen.

 

Good luck, and have fun with what you're doing. There's nothing worse than hating you day job, believe me, I've been there! And if you find you prefer to keep your photography a hobby, it's not failure not all hobbies are meant to make you a living, sometimes they are just for pocket money, and that way you still enjoy doing them.

 

Regards

Nedine

[robertjewett]

How to show your pictures? Go to every little league game in your town and hand out business cards. Heck, Id be tempted to bring a latop and a printer and give out a few pics with my website printed across the bottom. Take pictures at the game and offer them for sale on your website. Go to vactation Bible schools, etc. 1) You have to be where your potential client base (moms and kids) are. 2) You have to differentiate yourself from the competition. 3) You have to be good 4) You have to be priced right (look up WTP or willingness to pay equations) 4) You have to market (google buzz and marketing), etc.

 

Go get a book on starting a small business. I see a lot of threads like this one. It makes me think of a mom trying to sell sandwiches outside of a stripmall that has both a Blimpie and a Subway restaurant. She wonders why her two pieces of wonderbread with one thin slice of turkey loaf isn't selling. (but, gasp, I want it to selllllll!) If you baked your own homemade bread, stuffed that thing with a quarter pound of meat, and sold it at construction sites--you MAY be able to make a living at it (if you wore a bikini while selling them). : )

[DavidRabinowitz]

Liz, you can do all the little things that add up to potential but if your confidence is running low it's hard to develop the right attitude and energy necessary to take advantage of these possibilities. I'm a psychotherapist and I've been working with people for years who use therapy to rethink how they can approach these issues. I am not saying you need therapy to address your business concerns though. I've just found going into your own business to be full of emotional pulls. That's why many people work for other's and forego this stressful, although potentially enriching, experience.

 

Regards,

 

 

 

David

[tana_d.]

Nedine, those "harsh" comments are perfectly honest, valid points, as much as it may hurt to hear them. And btw,

it's only one finger here, not two, lol. I still think you should thank the people that took the time to give

advice, even if you don't agree with it.

 

Something I'm not seeing discussed too much is pricing. Without getting into specifics, most of the newbies here

(the original poster, Corri) are priced dirt cheap and won't be able to sustain those prices and make a profit

and keep a healthy succesful business in the long run. They are priced like Walmart is priced, and that's the

type of customers they will attract. I'm not slamming anyone, I'm trying to help. I underpriced myself a bit when

first starting out too (although no near as low as them). You will get burnt out with those rock bottom prices,

and after taxes and expenses you are out another 30%, if not more, easily. I've been there done that, I'm not

just talking out my rear.

 

When deciding pricing, don't just look at the competition and price yourself lower. That's a very naive way to go

about it. The competition may not be making enough money to keep afloat, and here you go copying them. What you

should do is decide how much you want/need to make per session, after all expenses and taxes, and price

accordingly (otherwise known as a business plan). Take into account all the time you spend shooting and editing,

and ALL your expenses, such as

equipment, paperwork, gear, etc.

 

Opening and running a successful small business takes a lot of business knowledge, LOTS of sweat, AND knowledge

of your craft, whatever it may be. Without knowing the business aspect of it, and without completely knowing the

technical and artistic side of photography, you are doomed to fail. It's like deciding one day you're good at

baking cupcakes and then buying a restaurant and launching a business. 90% of new business fail within the first 3

years for lack of business planning.

 

I see MWACs all the time decide they'd like to make a little money, start charging, then they get in over their

heads, get frustrated, and quit. It happened to a good friend of mine, for all the reasons above. She decided

she's like to make a little money (not knowing how to take the camera off auto and not interested in learning),

took an ongoing job doing headshots for a business, turned out horrible photos and was fired, and took it really

hard. She told me once of a mutual friend who asked her to take some photos of her and her kid together. She

charged $30 for the photos on a CD. This other friend complained to me the photos were bad (out of focus etc) and

she wanted her money back. The MWAC felt put out that she did them for so little and the other friend wasn't

grateful. Last I talked to her she said she quit, she wasn't getting any customers, and it was turning out to be

more of a hassle than anything. Her problem was that 1. She treated it as a hobby and not a business and 2. Had

no business skills , or

photo skills to begin with.

 

Take what you what from everyone's advice, but if it were me I'd listen to those that have been doing photography

for awhile.

[fullmetalphotograper]

You can let your competitors be your weakness, or strength I come out of an environment in which I see competitors on a

daily basis and shoot head to head. I see how <a href="http://www.fresnobee.com/business/story/735047.html"

target="_blank">they shoot</a> and compare it to <a href="http://businessstreetonline.com/news.php?

ax=v&n=1&id=2&nid=481" target="_blank">my work</a>, and learn from it. I get to look them in the eye. You know what I

would not change it. It keeps me on my game. Sometimes it is fun to turn up the heat. If you loose a job to a competitor

ask yourself why? Was it price? Service? Or something else? If it is price it might be a great loss. If it service then you can

improve that. Be honest with yourself.

[claudius_soodeen]

Hi Liz

 

I hear your frustration. There's been some excellent advice given here, so I'll not repeat it.

 

You made a comment in your original post about your 'artsy' side.

Your website shows off some competent portraiture, but nothing 'artsy'.

Perhaps shooting and processing (photoshop) some photos of landscapes, urban-scapes, still-life, people, etc ...

that are markedly different could help you out.

Sometimes people are looking for gifts or collectibles and you might be able to sell some limited edition prints. This

would bring in some income but also get your name out there.

 

Just a thought.

Please note: I shoot with a Canon S3IS & am not interested in doing photography commercially. However, I've printed

2 of my most intriguing pics (large) and had them professionally framed. I've shown one high-end framer in my city

some of my other pics and he loved (maybe that's too strong) what he saw. This was a bit of a boost in confidence

for me. You might want to do something similar.

 

good luck

c

[knockknocking]

Tana, I never said they weren't valid, just a little harsh. I've always believed that you can be diplomatic when giving good advice. Although now that I think about it, harsh advice also tends to gee me up to better my game, so I suppose it does have it's place. The longer I'm in this business the bigger the dose of reality gets, but it motivates me rather than depresses me. You get into fluffy cloud world when you become a stay at home mom. Getting back into a world that doesn't revolve around nappies and baby powder can be a bit of a shock. I only came out of it a year ago. It's taken me this long to develop the necessary thick skin and confidence to start selling myself. My photography is very personal to me, it's something I've had to get over.

 

I agree about the pricing. You can't price yourself too low. You don't want to compete against the Wallmarts of the world. What I did was look at the competition, annalize what their likely costs were. Then annalize what mine are, and price accordingly. Didn't do it right the first or second time and got burnt, not badly but enough. It's all a learning curve, and some learn faster than others.

 

Something else I've discovered about our customers. They can't understand why digital should cost the same if not more than film photography. I've heard time and again how cheap digital has made family photos. They don't understand the processes that are involved. All they see is what they do when they use their own point and shoot digitals. I've made it my mission to explain to each customer exactly what is involved in the work I do so they better understand why I charge what I charge. I'm not saying I'm the best, but I am getting better and as I do so, I charge accordingly. I'm a big believer in the saying: "A clever man learns from his mistakes, but a wise man from the mistakes of others" and added my own bit "as well as their successes". There's no need to re-invent the wheel, look at others work add your own twist and better it. There's also a market for the MWACs that charge what wallmart does. They may not make much money but they are gaining experience. And I agree with Ralph, you need to be honest with yourself, self delusion will lead to disappointment both the photographers and the customers. That is why I love this site, people are honest with you, some don't pull their punches believing it best to diselusion now rather than later. Honest is good, but it does need to be constructive. Well that's another essay from me. . . I haven't written this much in ages! It's been educational so thats all to the good.

 

Regards

Nedine

[knockknocking]

Oh, and I'm always grateful for advice given, most of the time it's with the best interests at heart, even better when it's constructive and I can learn from it! I wouldn't be a member here if I didn't!

[knockknocking]

Oh god! I've just re-read what I wrote and I seem to be contradicting myself about the wallmart. . . just meant that to get the experience doing the 'cheap' jobs has their place, esp if you've come to this business long after you've left school. I know a couple of photographers who do those 'cheap' jobs and make a fair living (not a good one mind!) out of it. It's seen as ok when you're a student but not when you're older. why this is I don't know, we're all students through out our lives, age has nothing to do with it. And if I've made any other contradictions, I'll apologise now and save people having to point it out. ;->

[Landrum Kelly]

I hope that my own words have not been perceived as being too harsh. I have gotten a lot of advice from pros when I have talked about going pro. (I'm a college professor who shoots for fun.) Most of them do not say either that I should or that I should not, but almost all of them caution me not to rush into it. Implicit in their advice (whether they have seen my amateurish portfolio or not) is the old maxim, "But don't quit your day job."

 

In any case, I could never recommend my website as a model to anyone who is thinking of turning pro. There are a lot of good professional sites on PN. Here is one by Lou Korell:

 

http://www.loukorell.com/

 

Liz, if you are really serious about this, you will find a way, and you will do it. I don't want to hurt anyone's dream because my own dreams have yet to be realized. You really haven't been doing this very long. Your work looks solid, and I am sure that you will get better and better. I would say that you should not get discouraged just because you are not going as fast as you might want.

 

--Lannie

[DEGREEFOTO]

Hi Liz,

 

There has been a great deal of advise given from different levels of experience within the industry so far, and all have

their merit. When I started out 20 years ago, after spending 4 years at Uni to get the grounding I thought I needed, I

had no misgivings as to the daunting task I had ahead of me in regards to breaking into the market. Perhaps one of

the differences back then was that you may had to have thought about jumping in whereas thanks to digital, most

just jump in these days without giving it much thought as to what it takes more so in so much as running the

business end of things.

 

I have seen the onset of cheap photography in all its facets and the impact it is having on the market place. Although

I have no experience as to the US market, I have had to adjust to the ever increasing amount of competition in my

area. In fact I moved 17,000km so as to have a change of scene and market share. Although there are no MWACs

that I know of where I am located, pricing is constantly at the forefront when it comes to getting the job. Or so you

may think. I have not lower my fees,in fact I have increased them as there is a great deal more work involve shooting

digital then when I use film. My clients are aware of this because I have taken the time to show them the difference

via my marketing and presentation. And what I mean by presentation, is what many have already mentioned

above.....get out there and network...give a professional personal image as well as one associated with the type of

work you do. And yes, you need to shoot a great deal more and get to know your craft inside out and then some.

Just as important,you must attend to running the business seriously...or if not just have it as a hobby. I take about 3

hours with any new client that comes my way on our first meeting just to teach him the difference between my

service and that of someone that has it as a hobby. This in many ways is a reality check for you and as they

say, 'When the going gets tough, the tough get going'.

 

All the best

 

Artur

[photo_dark]

I have a full time job as a technician in an unrelated field, and I also have a fairly successful photography business and have been shooting on average 20+ weekends out of the year doing paid work. Here are a few things that i've learned that may help you out... I apologize in advance if any of this seems harsh, but it is the honest truth. Photo.net is a great place for solid and sound advice, not for sympathy :(

 

1) Listen to people on photo.net. The 'harsher' the comments, the more honest they are being. I said this in another post on here "Don't listen to people who tell you how great you are, listen to people who tell you how bad you are. You will learn more and learn faster that way." Basically, choosing to get offended at criticism is a short trip to long-term medocrity in your business and your photography.

 

2) You need a strong business plan... that means a full business license (may be expensive, depending where you are), business cards, an excellent website, an advertisement plan, a STRONG diversified portfolio, and most importantly a fallback plan. Having a studio space is very beneficial as well, although you seem to have that covered. Did I mention a will to survive in this business? That's been an asset for me as well. Complaining about how difficult it is won't get you sympathy or clients.

 

3) Becoming a professional photographer takes a lot of money and a lot of time when you first start. I listed a few things in another post that equate to your average minimum equipment requirements for shooting weddings... Total capital required? $5000 or more is a pretty standard number. For certain types of photography, specialized equipment may be required that will push you up to much higher numbers.

 

Now, you can take excellent photos with the D80, it is a great camera no doubt, but based on what i've seen on your website, you are going to have to consider a stronger selection of lenses (primes or fast zooms), probably a backup camera body, and some off-camera lighting equipment if you are considering any kind of studio work... .which leads me to...

 

4) Don't confuse 'good photos' with competent, professional level photography. Anyone can get 1 good shot out of 200 but the key is consistently good results. This means the most advanced features of your camera are second nature to you. That means mastering lighting and being able to do basic lighting calculations in your head on the fly, mastering your camera's autofocus abilities and learning to make fine manual adjustments for deficiencies. You will need to have a strong handle on composition and posing... this is especially crucial for portrait and studio work. You will also need to be fast on your feet, and your timing must be impeccible. The 'moment' usually only lasts about a moment, and if you are fiddling with settings all the time, you will miss the moment. Most importantly.....

 

5)...you will need STRONG interpersonal skills. Walking on site, you should already be formulating how you will approach the project before you even turn your camera on. That way when everyone is ready to go, you will be efficient, productive and successful. If are fumbling and unsure of what to do when you approach a paid shoot, you arn't ready for this yet. People see it, and it makes them question why they hired you. Be firm, confident in your abilities/equipment and smile often!

 

If you want to 'stand out', you need to be able to put all these things together, and then find an effective method of showing people that you are more than worth the fee you charge. Becoming a competent professional photographer isn't a single skill or piece of equipment, it's a combination of Business planning and saavy, Strong marketing skills, Excellent equipment, Mastering of said equipment, and strong interpersonal skills. Experience is an asset, but that doesn't come until later.

 

Hopefully you found some of this helpful. Don't be discouraged, rather be encouraged by the fact that you are willing to learn, and willing to accept critisicm and advice. Don't stop shooting, rather shoot more often, shoot everything. You have a baby? Then you have a perfect model to practice on. Take your camera with you everywhere, learn everything there is to know about it. Becoming discouraged is a daily (hourly?) part of this business. Sometimes you're on cloud 9 with how a shoot went, sometimes you are ready to throw your camera in front of the next city bus to roll by. Take it in stride, and keep learning and practicing.

[manuel barrera houston,]

very informative, forum

[james_ollinger]

I read somewhere something I thought was a great idea. Set up a little mini-studio for head-shot portraits. Let the local real-estate agents know. Shoot a few head shots, let them pick the one they like best. Make about 8 different sizes and burn it on a CD for them. With digital it's the sort of thing you can do very quickly--like while they wait. They can use the photos for their advertising.

 

If you price attractively and offer a short turn time, you may be able to do it rapid-fire. The expendible cost to you is the CD. The rest of the equipment is stuff you probably already have.

[prayermedic]

Have a look at the portfolios of the people that are giving you advice. I don't always like the comments that people post about my work, but I do go and investigate where they are speaking from. This is a good place to learn and D Bowens is most correct when he say get a good business plan and plan to spend some money. Always consider the 7 P's

Prior and proper planing prevents piss poor performance.

[lilypicketphotography]

I am so grateful for everyone's comments. Thanks, and keep 'em coming! I didn't take anything as being harsh, just

realistic and truthful! And I agree with you, David, I am always a little suspicious of people who only tell you how

fantastic you are--I want to hear what I can do better! So, thank you for that. And for sharing your wisdom. I

recognize it was earned with sweat and time, and I am grateful for your willingness to share it.

As I have been reflecting on things, I have come to 2 realizations:

1. I am very, very lucky. I have a husband who makes enough for us to survive on, so I only need enough for now to

pay for my equipment/bills. Granted, we sacrifice a lot of "niceties" for me to be at home, which is why I absolutely

canNOT buy anything else until the business makes enough to afford it. My husband is happy to let me stay home,

but he's beginning to look a little askance at me, when I ask for MORE money to sink into some other aspect of this

very huge complicated thing I have gotten myself into!

 

2. In the past, I have consistently had extraordinary beginner's luck with things. I've tried lots of different artsy things,

from sculpture to furniture building, to jewelry making, to mosaic, and had amazingly good results. In almost every

instance, I got lucky and people asked to buy what I made, even my very first attempts. But, I usually got bored

fairly quickly, and moved on to something else, thus never really getting into the "meat" of the skill and developing

any. This, however, has been different. While I did have the same streak of beginner's luck, (and naiively

thought, "hey, this is an easy way to stay home AND make money!") I have stuck with it long enough to get into

the "meat" and realize how....naive and undertrained and ignorant I really am. That was a serious and unexpected

shock. Someone posted that a four-day-workshop does not a photographer make. BOY, you got that right! And

that's part of what overwhelms me. I am realizing that there is soooooo much to learn, and I am impatient. I want to

know it all NOW. : ) Beginner's luck can only carry one but so far. Now it's time to step it up a notch, and really

do some WORK, you know? But which direction to go in first? Theres so much! So, that's where I was. But you

guys have given me great advice, and the first order of business appears to me to be : FIX the website. Then get a

BUSINESS PLAN. Then get better SKILLS. Then, market myself.

 

Does that sound about right?

[photo_dark]

Well, it wasn't all that long ago I did start out with next to nothing, and i've made quite a few mistakes, but i've also mostly learned for them :) glad to help where i can.

 

On a side note, I've had a chance to go through a good portion of your portfolio. Honestly, it's not really all that bad. There are some obvious focus and exposure issues with a good number of them, but there are also some really great shots. With your wedding shots, be careful not to blow out all the detail in the bride's dress, and keep working on your compostions.. Some are really nice, some have a real lack of purpose (nothing strong enough to carry the photo).

 

I think your order of business is reasonable, except you need to put your business plan first, not second. Definitely fix the website, at least finish it off and get it looking great. Perhaps just create a nice looking blogspot website? Have a clearly defined link to your portfolio/proofing site, and keep posting new work on it as you finish new projects. Most people can't afford a 'real' website if they can't make it themselves, but there are lots of free or close-to-free alternatives out there. Try to find someone in your circle of friends or local community that can help you. The best way to get started is to find someone else who is also starting out and trade services.

 

Focus on your portfolio. Sit down and put together a smaller list of your best work... putting 3 different takes of the same scene isn't a good idea, and doesn't give the impression that you are capable of diversity. Instead, take maybe 20 or 30 of your absolute best and most diverse work (get some outside input on your best work), do some editing to give them a similar 'polish' and post that on your new website. This will not only better exemplify your work, it will help you dial down your own personal style, which is critical to your overall marketing plan.

 

Skills. Keep practicing, keep coming here and asking questions. There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. No scratch that, there are dumb questions... but ask them anyways. Better to know than not ;)

[knockknocking]

I like the attitude! Although I'd start learning while doing all the rest.

 

Best of luck, regards

Nedine

[Landrum Kelly]

Here is a related thread which just started today:

 

http://www.photo.net/business-photography-forum/00QDJo

 

--Lannie

[mtrejo6]

Don't dwell on what you don't have or what you can't do. When meeting with customers I bet they sense that frustration underneath the surface. You should always empasize you strengths, your professionalism, and ALWAYS demonstrate a positive attitude and let your customer know that you are passionate about what you do. Once you have captured your potential client's interest through your can-do attitude and enthusiasm then they listen to what you have to say. You have to sell yourself first. Remember, if they don't like you they'll go on to the next prospect but if you have captivated them then your chances of closing the deal are far more likely. Now you can focus on selling your work. Even if your work isn't as great as you say, your potential client may be willing to give you the opportunity you really want. I've had my days when I've been exhausted and had to meet with a client. Even though I though I gave a good presentation, I did not get a call back. Why? Because my enthusiasm wasn't at its peak. However, there have been days when I have completely captivated my potential clients, even made a couple of them cry. This happened because I was able to demonstrate passion and enthusiasm. Trust me, your work will get better but what need to improve greatly very soon is your attitude. Don't ever sell yourself short and don't settle on becoming a MWAC! Things may seem miserable at first but eventually you'll find the groove that will take you where you wantto be. Best of luck!