mauricio_orozco Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 For me to get a bright foreground and background, I have to use the camera in slow sinc + 1/30. This is nice, since I get the expected result .. but, not without dealing with some blur so, to keep the sharpness, I must use a tripod or monopod and that is something I will not have anytime I will use my SB-800, so, my question is, can anyone advise what else to do to avoid tripod and still shooting bright pictures ( foreground and background ) ? Does the WB have to do something with this ? So the filters ? Usually I have my camera setup on 1/30 on one of the banks to shoot photos with flash, but still, using this setup, sometimes I am getting underexposed pictures. Please help !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 What ISO are you shooting at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauricio_orozco Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 Always shootign at ISO 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliot1 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 You have a number of options... If you can, bounce your flash. You can also lighten the background in image processing programs like Photoshop. Using the correct ISO, likely higher rather than lower, will also have a dramatic affect on how available lighting will show up. By increasing the ISO, you should be able to increase your shutter speed a bit and still get the effect you are looking for. A 2nd flash, off camera, can also quite helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauricio_orozco Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thanks Elliot. Are you telling me to increase the ISO in the camera or the SB-800? If so, how high should I set it up ? By the way, most of the time, I use the difuser or bounce flash, but still getting underexposed pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliot1 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 You want to increase the ISO in your camera. The flash's output will adjust automatically. Try ISO 800 or higher and increase your shutter speed to 1/60th. You can also try your flash without the diffuser. Pull the catchlight (white card) out (reinsert the built-in diffuser). Try different angles. You can increase the flash's output either on your camera or on the flash. I find bounce flash produces images with more saturation so you may need to adjust your camera's settings a bit. Be patient and experiment until you find a combination of settings and setup that works to your liking. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Mauricio, could you post a representative sample image or two with this problem? It is very difficult to provide good suggestions without knowing your exact shooting condition, especially how far the background is, whether there are any people moving in the background, etc. A convenient way to look at a flash image is that it is actually a combination of two exposures, one by the flash and one by the ambient light. The aperture will control both exposures and so does the ISO setting. However, as long as it is within the flash sync speed, the shutter speed only controls the ambient exposure. Therefore, you need to adjust those three variables to find the right combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuzzy Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Mauricio, Shun and Elliot have headed you in the right direction. You need to increase the ISO in order to pick up the background using the ambient light. How much you increase the ISO depends on how dark it is and how much light you want in the background. With that D300 I would not worry too much about using a higher ISO. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_smith3 Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 In addition to the above, try setting rear curtain synch on your camera. That forces the flash to go off last, and forces the exposure to be determined mostly by ambient light as read by the camera's meter. That should help improve the background light. In addition to that, if you want the flash to act mainly as fill light,set "TTL", not "TTL BL", on the flash. This way the flash output is set independent of the camera's exposure. You can control the amount of flash exp compensation by dialing in under or over flash compensation on the flash as needed. And the next step, if needed, is to over expose the ambient exposure on the camera and under expose the flash exposure on the flash. I would not try this until you fully understand how the camera and flash work together to determine correct exposure of the subject. Joe Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 <I>That forces the flash to go off last, and forces the exposure to be determined mostly by ambient light as read by the camera's meter.</I><P>Joseph, am I missing something? That comment does not make any sense.<P>On Nikon DSLRs and assuming that you are using iTTL, flash photography exposure is completely determined prior to the time the image is actually captured. Unlike film bodies, none of the metering is on during exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_skomial Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 ...more on Joseph's.. e.g."if you want the flash to act mainly as fill light,set "TTL", not "TTL BL", The iTTL/BL was mainly invented to do the balance of both ambient and flash light. It workes so great, that even recognized authority like Moose Peterson suspects that in the SB-800 the "computer circumnavigates the inverse square law" - and according to Moose that is how even lighting is achieved. (...some people do believe that...) Suggestion to do iTTL and then fiddle with under or over compensation, you could achieve the same result or any result you desire, by why not to use what is there and works great. Also...Early D300 was reported having flash sync problem when in rear curtain sync, and the PC sync socket on camera was used. I bet they fixed that by now...? Anyone knows if the D300 PC sync socket is enabled when in rear curtain sync mode ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrison_k. Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 "Joseph, am I missing something? That comment does not make any sense." When you move the flash setting to rear curtain sync, the exposure (when in A or P) will change to a slower exposure than when not on rear curtain sync. For instance, when indoors at a reception, if one is on plain normal flash setting and A mode, the camera setting will default to 1/60 (or whatever you set in the menu) but when switching to rear curtain, the shutter speed can get quite low, like Joseph says, around 1/8th to provide you with the desired effects of dragging the shutter and a rear curtain pop of the flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 First of all, I would suggest never use the P metering mode for indoor flash photography. I happen to be one of very few serious photographers who prefer the P mode for outdoor work, but for flash, P is a disaster because it limits the maximum aperture you can use. For those who have Thom Hogan's book for the D300, he makes that very clear on page 598. Personally I prefer the M mode so that I have full control of both the aperture and shutter speed. Usually I use a shutter speed such as 1/30 or perhaps 1/15 if there are no people moving in the scene. If you use A and let the camera set a shutter speed to something like 1/8 sec, it could be very problematic with all sorts of movement issues. If you need a faster shutter speed to stop any motion, you can boost the ISO to 400 or even 800. I would not do a lot of brightening on the background in post-processing as that will introduce noise; a little is probably ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauricio_orozco Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 Shun, at this point I can not post any picture but I will very soon. What I will do is to practice everything you guys have been advising me in this post. Thanks a million for that. I got another question, I do believe that will all your advises point to indoor photography, but my question is : if I use lower shutter speed by choosing A on the camera, then I probably will have a blured picture. I trying here to use the SB-800 for indoor without the need to use a tripod to stop the blur and according to what you told me, using those setups, the camera will shoot in very low speed which will fill all the light properly but not without compromising blur in the picture if I don't use a tripod, so what to do in this case guys ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Mauricio, since I have absolutely no idea about your shooting environment, I am going to make some default setting suggestions, and you can tune your settings from those starting points. Manual exposure mode M, 1/60 sec shutter speed, f4 aperture, ISO 400, iTTL on the SB-800. Please don't tell me that you are using a 18-55mm on your D300 so that it only goes to f5.6. In that case you'll need a "better lens." Try to use the bounce card Elliot suggested earlier or perhaps bounce off the ceiling if the ceiling is white. If it is dark, forget it. I would much rather not use direct flash right onto your subjects. If the background is still too dark, perhaps boost the ISO to 800 or maybe even 1600. Again, your shutter speed will only affect the ambient exposure, not your flash exposure. The ISO and aperture settings will affect both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrison_k. Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 "If you use A and let the camera set a shutter speed to something like 1/8 sec, it could be very problematic with all sorts of movement issues." Shun, with rear curtain sync, that's exactly what I am after. And i works remarkably well. Nevertheless, as I said above, when in A mode, when you switch from front curtain normal flash mode to rear curtain sync, the camera by default will give you a slower shutter speed in darker environments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauricio_orozco Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 Thank u guys. Shun, I do not have that lens, the 18-55. Have the Tokina 11-16 f/2.8, Nikon 50 mm f/1.8 and the Nikon 16-85 VR. My intention for indoor photography could be either the Tokina or the Nikon 50 mm f/1.8 and in some cases, perhaps the 16-85 VR. Also, I always shoot in M outdoor but to be hones, never shooted in M while indoor. I will start shooting in M from now on. I always used P and according to you guys, perhaps this is the problem that I have been having, by using the wrong program. Also, I have 2 banks in my camera so far, one of them is setup for portrait and indoor. In this bank I do have Standard, D-light off, 1/30 for flash, auto-ISO off, modeling flash off and I choose auto-WB most of the time. My SB-800 is setup to +1/3 exposure ( is this a problem ? ) iTTL/BL - Please advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 If you use as slow a shutter speed as 1/8 sec and you have any person who is awake inside the frame, it is almost certain that some people will move during the exposure. I would imagine that very few photographers would like to achieve that kind of effect, but if that is what you want, you'll get it. Personally, I don't see the need to use rear-curtain sync to get 1/8 sec shutter speed. Simply set exposure mode to M and you can set the shutter speed yourself and you can watch the exposure scale inside the viewfinder to see whether you are over or under-exposing so that you can adjust accordingly. Occasionally I use 1/15 sec but I typically use at least 1/30 sec to stop motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_smith3 Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Shun, my comment about rear curtain my not make sense. You are right to point that out. I must admit that most of the time I use rear curtain synch, the fllash is set to TTL not TTL BL so the two computers are not linked together and the exposure is set primarily by the camera. What you set on the falsh acts as fill light and what you set can have little effect or a lot of effect on the final exposure. Here is where it gets complicated and I do not have a good explanation for the results. Some of you might have. I do not have a lot of test data on this, but I have noticed in some of my macro work that when TTL BL is set on the flash, sometimes I get different exposures with front curtain, vs slow synh vs rear curtain synch. Why I do not know if the two computers are working together to determine exposure. Joe Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Joseph, I didn't mean to give you a hard time; I was merely trying to figure out what you were trying to communicate. As I said, I prefer to use the M mode so that I can control everything, but your way could be different. In any case, Mauricio has gotten a lot of suggestions. It is up to him to try things out and post some results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrison_k. Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 "If you use as slow a shutter speed as 1/8 sec and you have any person who is awake inside the frame, it is almost certain that some people will move during the exposure. I would imagine that very few photographers would like to achieve that kind of effect, but if that is what you want, you'll get it." Uhm, Shun, dragging the shutter with rear curtain sync is very popular. An 1/8th of a second with a 20mm is almost perfect for the first dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now