D300 white balance seems off

[shoots]

Just got a new D300 and was out taking pics of a scene I had shot before with a little Canon P&S and I noticed right away on the LCD that the grass

was more orange than the scene seemed to be in real life. Now I know not to judge color on an LCD but this was way off so I took it home and loaded

it into PS and it was the same, colors, saturation were just off. I brought up the Canon P&S pics and they looked way more natural (blurry and not near

the resolution, but more natural in color and saturation).

 

I started to fiddle with the AUTO white balance and came up with a pleasing match to a scene in the back yard, which ended up pushing Blue all the

way left to #6, and adding 2 points Magenta. Is this going to be a problem? Will I never be able to use Auto white Balance with out fine tuning it for

each new subject? Anyone run into this with there D300?

 

Settings were straight out of the box, factory. Using Program.

 

I will try to post examples here, if I can figure out how.<div></div>

[photo5]

I like the left one better. The right one is too blue, this is especially apparent on the very right of the photo.

 

There is something called "pleasing color." This is a color balance that looks pleasing to the eye. It may mean not perfectly neutral greys. Warmer is better. Nikon is giving you pleasing color, and Nikon is correct to do this.

[photo5]

Also, there is something called "weather-relative" color. In other words, the light is very warm at sunset, it shouldn't be made neutral. The light on an overcast day will be more blue, it shouldn't be made yellow.

 

The light in this photo should be warm, as it is a sunny day. It should not be made neutral.

 

Hope this helps. I've been doing color correction for 9 years.

[elliot1]

I have been somewhat disappointed with the white balance on my D300 as well as so many people rave about it being so accurate. I find grass and skin tones to be too orange.

 

I have switched from sRGB to aRGB colors space and find it is helping a lot. If you are shooting with sRGB you might want to try aRGB to see if you find the colors more pleasing. If you are already shooting with aRGB, try turning your saturation down a bit.

[Palouse]

I've typically not been a big fan of AUTO WB. It assumes that you want every thing to look "neutral" and/or "in perfect" light. Takes away any creative vision one may have as a photographer. Often setting Cloudy -1 or about 5400 K makes for beter bright sunlight captures. Straight out of the box is not what a complex DSLR was designed for.

[Palouse]

What Color mode were you using?

[tri-x1]

Shooting in Adobe RGB mode I've never found a reason to turn off AWB on my D300. A lot of what you are seeing may depend on whether you monitor is calibrated.

[Palouse]

True. Mine is "sort-of calibrated" laptop set to ProPhotoRGB,and using FireFox 3.

 

The question is, what are your intentions? Easy or accurate WB? Easy or consistent WB? Easy or creative WB? Easy or flexible WB? and so on.

[photo5]

I forgot to mention I viewed his example on my calibrated Sony Artisan monitor here at work.

[liljuddakalilknyttphotogra]

Troy,

 

a couple of things...

 

1, to me the Nikon colors in the left shot seem more pleasing & natural - - but I was not there.

 

2, Canon (which your P&S is) uses a far more blue color scale. If that's what you want & like you either have to pp your shots in that manner or start shooting with a Canon dslr.

 

3. Remember that we all see colors slightly differently & you may like cooler tones.

 

JMHO

 

Lil :)

[Palouse]

Good advice/insight Lil Judd. Good starting point for getting consistent and repeatable results that he likes.

[elliot1]

Nick, are you saying it is not easy to get accurate or consistent WB? I feel like I am constantly fighting my D300 when it comes to WB and would appreciate any tips you can share.

[Palouse]

I've used a D100 and currently use a D2X, and my son shoots with a D70. We've found that Auto WB is great for grab shots, consistent (unchanging) lighting but I feel it tends to make all shots too much alike (i.e., generic) or too cool. Shoot a sunset and see for yourself. Use a gray card and set your own WB using the PRE setting and get a feel for what the camera can do under different light. You could also photograph a gray card as part of the scene and use the gray (neutral) eyedropper in Photo Shop (or what ever you use) and set the WB that way.

 

Key thing----SHOOT NEFs, then you can play with all the various settings until you are comfortable with the calibration of your camera and your own eye/brain (i.e., your taste).

[photo5]

"Shoot NEFs" seems to be the answer to 80% of questions asked in the Nikon forum lately...

[Palouse]

Well, with WB, it is incredibly easy to change when you shoot RAW. 'Nuf said.

[shoots]

O.K Let me start with the gory details:

 

First my workstation

 

MAC PowerPC Dual-867, 2 GIG RAM 41GB Dedicated Scratch disk. Photo-shop CS3

Lacie electron 19 Blue IV (which is calibrated weekly with the Lacie Blue EYE USD Calibrator)

 

 

 

Image on left:

 

File Info 1

File: DSC_014.JPG

Date Created: 2008/07/10 12:58:36

Date Modified: 2008/07/10 12:58:36

File Size: 3.01 MB

Image Size: L (4288 x 2848)

File Info 2

Date Shot: 2008/07/10 12:58:36.60

World Time: UTC-5, DST:ON

Image Quality: Jpeg Normal (8-bit)

Artist:

Copyright:

Image Comment:

Camera Info

Device: Nikon D300

Lens: 18-70mm F/3.5-4.5G

Focal Length: 35mm

Focus Mode: AF-S

AF-Area Mode: Auto-area AF

VR:

AF Fine Tune: OFF

Exposure

Aperture: F/8

Shutter Speed: 1/250s

Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto

Exposure Comp.: 0EV

Exposure Tuning:

Metering: Matrix

ISO Sensitivity: ISO 200

Flash

Flash Sync Mode:

Flash Mode:

Flash Exposure Comp.:

Colored Gel Filter:

Image Settings

White Balance: Auto, 0, 0

Color Space: sRGB

High ISO NR: OFF

Long Exposure NR: OFF

Active D-Lighting: OFF

Image Authentication: OFF

Vignette Control:

Picture Control

Picture Control: [sD] STANDARD

Base:

Quick Adjust: 0

Sharpening: 3

Contrast: 0

Brightness: 0

Saturation: 0

Hue: 0

Filter Effects:

Toning:

GPS

Latitude:

Longitude:

Altitude:

Heading:

UTC:

 

 

Image on right:

 

File Info 1

File: DSC_015.JPG

Date Created: 2008/07/10 12:56:16

Date Modified: 2008/07/10 12:56:16

File Size: 2.94 MB

Image Size: L (4288 x 2848)

File Info 2

Date Shot: 2008/07/10 12:56:16.68

World Time: UTC-5, DST:ON

Image Quality: Jpeg Normal (8-bit)

Artist:

Copyright:

Image Comment:

Camera Info

Device: Nikon D300

Lens: 18-70mm F/3.5-4.5G

Focal Length: 35mm

Focus Mode: AF-S

AF-Area Mode: Auto-area AF

VR:

AF Fine Tune: OFF

Exposure

Aperture: F/7.1

Shutter Speed: 1/200s

Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto

Exposure Comp.: 0EV

Exposure Tuning:

Metering: Matrix

ISO Sensitivity: ISO 200

Flash

Flash Sync Mode:

Flash Mode:

Flash Exposure Comp.:

Colored Gel Filter:

Image Settings

White Balance: Auto, B6, M2

Color Space: sRGB

High ISO NR: OFF

Long Exposure NR: OFF

Active D-Lighting: OFF

Image Authentication: OFF

Vignette Control:

Picture Control

Picture Control: [sD] STANDARD

Base:

Quick Adjust: 0

Sharpening: 3

Contrast: 0

Brightness: 0

Saturation: 0

Hue: 0

Filter Effects:

Toning:

GPS

Latitude:

Longitude:

Altitude:

Heading:

UTC:

 

 

There that should satisfy just about...strike that, ALMOST...everyone. Now let me get to the other points...

 

About the color mode I have tried this in SRGB and Adobe, the results are the same as far as I can tell.

 

I don't shoot NEF because of there size and processing time compared to JPEG, unless "I" feel it is important to do so. 75% of the

images taken are snaps, for reference, not critical on the whole. "But" and I emphasis "BUT", critical enough that I would like and

EXPECT normal, average, realistic, pleasing BORING color from the camera. Then if "I" decide it necessary i will BE creative and

use other modes, or NEF and PS later.

 

If there are people suggesting that we should avoid the use of any feature the camera offers, then why offer them. I mean lets just

have a camera that shoots only NEF, does not not have a lens that zooms, has one white balance setting for all scenes and only

one button for the shutter. Sounds pretty boring to me.

 

Look, I just wanted to get an idea if others were having this issue (if it is one?) and ask weather or not anyone thought that I might

have to deal with this on a daily basis, even if i am just taking snaps. Because it was not an issue with thew D70 I had and the little

Canon P&S seems to do fine. I mean tweaking the white balance each and every time I want to shoot a new scene would slow me

down greatly (I, know. I know I can here the...what's wrong with slowing down crowd , right now).

[kevinwalsh]

For color, the settings that I use are AWB: B1. Picture Control: Neutral, Hue -1. I found them somewhere else and they have

proven pretty accurate, especially for skin tones. These deal well with reds, that tend to blow easily on the D300, as seen if

you keep an eye on the RGB histogram and not just the blinking highlights or luminance histo. Of course, since I shoot RAW

and use Aperture, the PC settings don't mean anything, but the WB has made a difference in not having to mess too much

with it in post.

Always resist the urge to check color accuracy on the LCD. It can get frustrating :-)<div></div>

[elliot1]

Troy, what program are you viewing your pictures with? You should see a dramatic difference between the sRGB and aRGB.

 

Also, you can easily change white balance in JPG files with a program like CS3.

[kevinwalsh]

Troy,

For jpegs try these and see how you like them: AWB B1, Matrix meter, Adobe RGB, Dlite Off, Pict Cont: Neut; Contrast 0,

Bright 0, Hue -1, Sharp +3, Saturation 0.

Hope this helps.

Kevin

[hakon_soreide]

You can still adjust white balance in post processing when you shoot jpeg, and you don't have to use NEFs for that, although you won't have so much leeway. It still would usually be enough to fine tune it to the correct setting if the starting point is close.

<p>

By the way, I also like the warmer shot best. Then again, I tend to use white balance as a creative tool, and the correct setting for me isn't always what it looked like for me, but more what it feels like.

[kevinwalsh]

Same afternoon AWB B1 , Matrix, Adobe. Detail is not great at this size, but wanted to show different skin tones and

backgrounds with the same outdoor lighting. Works for me.<div></div>

[kevinwalsh]

I should ad that I added a touch of "Vibrancy" in post to bring out the colors without affecting the skin tones. The greens and

reds would have a bit more dull and natural look without it.

[garydem]

i wrote the following posts some time ago, they may be of interest.

 

no matter which dslr you buy.

 

 

 

heavily consider the following. there are NEW DSLR owners' writing in all over these forums on this subject.

when changeing from a p&s to a dslr, there is a huge difference.

 

 

 

when you take p&s out of the box add a memory card and a fully charged battery you can now shoot and take very good pics.

BUT, you cannot do this with dslr. the camera HAS TO BE SETUP first. you have to adjust the contrast/saturation/sharpness/shooting modes(color style or whatever it is called) to your likes. if you don't it is quite likely you will disappointed with results. your p&s will likely outshoot the dslr.

to setup-you have shoot a test shot make ONE adjustment reshoot check pc screen readjust, until you are satisfied. and you do this with each of the adjustment types. then you have all the custom adjustments in the menu to check and if wanted change.

when done you can put the camera into AUTO or PROGRAM and get reasonably nice shots. i would advise at first staying with jpeg. as you learn about the camera and photography you can then go to the other shooting modes and try RAW if you wish.

dslrs are made to see the shot through the optical viewfinder not through the lcd. this is true of almost all dslrs including the k10d.

dslrs and color.

 

if you mean heavy saturated colors then no dslr is going to do that. they are not made to give strongly saturated colors. they are made to give ACCURATE COLORS. not heavy saturated colors.

this is not the same thing at all. too many people who come from a p&s are very disappointed in the dslr colors, because they are not bright and saturated. this is because they are and have been using a p&s which has been giving them saturated and incorrect colors for so long that they think it is the right look. nothing could be further from the truth. the p&s colors are wrong, wrong. the camera manufactures know that the public buys high megapixel and heavy saturated colors and is what they make and sell to the public.

but the slr/dslr is a whole different world. for the dslr accuracy of the scene in terms of view and color is a religion rpt religion. you want accurate color that is what you are going to get with dslr. but they will not be the bright saturated colors of a p&s. ytou can with adjustments in the menus up the color is dslr, but it will not look the INACCURATE CARTOON COLOR of the p&s.

if you are wishing to buy a dslr for more and brighter color, save you money the p&s is what you want.

not too long ago a new owner of a dslr was on these forums talking about the poor color of his new dslr. it seems as if he was shooting on an overcast day. many many people replying to him told him that cloudy day shots give the most accurate color, which they do. he couldn't believe and get over that idea. he also owned a p&S previously.

you might be interested in this; which i posted a while back.

 

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=23677257;

[shoots]

Thanks Gary...

 

 

...but i am not a "NEW DSLR owner". I had a D70 for a few years and it delivered colors that were realistic OUT OF THE BOX!

 

Anyone take a picture with the D300 on a SUNNY DAY? I swear, so far I have not found an example! These a cloudy day

cameras, arent they?

 

 

Elliot...everyone else

 

that big string of text in my last post contains ALL the information for each photo. ALL the information. sRGB & aRGB!

 

 

Hakon...

 

...missing the point. I don't want to make wild adjustments to show an average color in an average scene. THATS WHAT THE

CAMERA IS SUPPOSED TO DO ! Why don't I just use a sharp stick or an etch-a-sketch to make pictures instead of a DSLR?

[eric_arnold]

hi troy,

my .02:

the images are small but the auto-WB looks better to me. the blue on white cast in the one on the right makes it seem like it's overexposed and has purple fringing to boot. but if you like it better, that's okay by me.

 

as far as WB on a D300, it really depends on the situation and it's possible that nikon made it less aggressive out of the box since there are so many ways you can tweak it.

 

also, there might be some expectation by nikon erngineers that active d-lighting and or vivid picture styles could factor in to the equation.. you might want to try your auto setting and your custom setting plus ADL or Vivid just to see what it looks like.

 

with this camera, i'm finding out that many roads lead to rome, so to speak. sometimes you don't need to travel all of them, but there's more than one way to get there, it seems.