Confused newbie questions: ektar 203/7.7, lens mounting, rollfilm backs on Sinar F

[edward_kang]

Hello, good folks!

 

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First, let me say that the Sinar F manual is incredibly bad.

 

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Bad bad bad.

 

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Here are my problems. If you have any solutions let me know, thanks :)

 

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Question 1:

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How do I use the "shutter opening button" or "preview button" on my Kodak Ektar 203/7.7 lens? When I press it without the shutter cocked, it's impossible to push it down. When I press it with the shutter cocked, it pushes down extremely easily. Neither situation actually opens the shutter!

 

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<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/previewbutton.jpg>

 

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Question 2:

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I have a Graflex rollfilm back. When I take the groundglass assembly off my Sinar, there is a big open space. This big open space is much bigger than the size of the graflex back. How do I mount my graflex rollfilm back on my Sinar?

 

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Here's the Sinar

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/sinarbyitself.jpg>

Here's me taking the groundglass assembly off.

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/sinargroundglassoff.jpg>

Look, it doesn't fit!

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/filmbackdontfit.jpg>

It just don't fit!

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/filmbackdontfit2.jpg>

Does it somehow go on the groundglass assembly?

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/wheretointerface.jpg>

 

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Question 3:

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How am I supposed to mount the lens on the included lens ring?

This Way?

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/frontwayring.jpg>

or That Way?

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/backwayring.jpg>

 

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What is the proper orientation of the lens ring when screwed into the lens board?

 

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<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/ringboard1.jpg>

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/ringboard3.jpg>

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/ringboard4.jpg>

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/ringboard5.jpg>

 

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What size hole can I use with this lens? Copal 0? Or do I have to custom make my own?

 

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Thanks, from a confused grad student.

<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/confused.jpg>

[walter_glover]

Edward,

 

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The operation of the shutter i can't help you with. Looking at the

bi-pole flash connection I'd say iteligible for a pension but I do

know that a great many LF shooters use this sort of thing so a

heap od advice will be along shortly.

 

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Now ... the Roll Film Holder � are you certain that it is a 4x5

Graflex back and not one designed for 2x3 (or 6x9) cameras. I

have used a number of Graflok devices on a Sinar F2 and they

do fit, albeit fairly snugly at times ... certainly never loose. Silly

thing is I have a Sinar Zoom 2 RFH which I use on a Linhof. How

does it differ from the original Zoom back? Well, in several ways,

but relevent to our discussion Sinar removed the Graflok

channels so it has to slid in like a double dark � so they can be

rather Swiss about industry standards at times.

 

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Now to the lens mounting ring. Am I correct in detecting that the

flat flange of this plate has small holes (say 4) in it? If so then

the mount is screwed onto the board in allignment with a hole

big enough to accommodate the outer diameter of the short

threaded tube and the lens is then screwed into the threaded

mount.

 

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If it does not have small screw holes then perhaps it has

notches cut in across the diameter in which case a hole in the

board must just fit the diameter of the threaded section of the

lens and then clamped in by this capstan, obviously with the

surface opposite the notches flush with the rear surface of the

panel.

 

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Compur, Prontor or Copal shutters are generally marked with a

size and a call to the appropriate distributor in your country will

probably get you a new capstan.

 

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You're right about the Sinar manual � big on selling the features

of the camera and system but short on nuts and bolts.

 

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Good luck ... Walter

[jim_galli1]

Cock the shutter. Hold the button down. trip the shutter with the

button down and it should catch in the open position. I think you

have to re-cock it and trip without holding the button down to close

it.

 

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The rings were meant to work different ways with different boards.

There's not a right way except the way that holds the shutter on in a

useable fashion without letting light it. If it has holes and you

have a metal board you can drill and tap matching holes in the board.

or you can just cut an opening and use it in retainer fashion.

 

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Good luck. Get all these little problems out of the way so you can

get on to the BIG ones.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Actually I find the Sinar F manual to be very good about it's

intended subject: using the Sinar F camera. Your questions have

nothing to do with the operations of that camera per se.

1.) It sounds like you have a bad shutter. Judging from the

photos it is a very old shutter and should be serviced.<P>

2.) Your particulargraflex roll film back is not designed to be used

with a 4x5 camera. it lacks the full size adapter plate that is part

of the full size graflex (horseman, Sinar, Calumet, etc.) rollfilm

backs. Specifically it appears that your back is designed to work

with a 6x9cm camera like the "Baby Graflex."<P>

3.) As illustrated in your "This way" photo -- with the flat side

toward the back of the lens. The raised ridge fits into the hole in

the lensboard to center the lens into place.<P>

4.) I have no idea what size lensboard (hole) you need to use.

the mechanic who checks out or replaces your shutter will be

able to tell you.<P>

Nicely illustrated questions! Good to see you have a sense of

humor about things!

[david_rose3]

If your shutter is like an older Compur shutter I have, the

preview "button" only opens the lens if the shutter is cocked.

Regarding the lens mounting question, you need to carefully measure

the diameter of the back portion of the lens, then drill a hole

slightly larger than that measurement in the center of the lens

board. The lens is then inserted into the hole from the front. The

lens is normally retained on the board with a "jamb nut", similar to

what you have but without the screw holes and flange. These jumb nuts

will have a pair of slots to allow them to be tightened with a lens

spanner wrench. The flanged ring you have is meant more for mounting

to an enlarger or to be screwed to a wood lensboard, but it should

still work as a jamb nut, just hard to tighten.

[edward_kang]

Thanks for the answers folks.

 

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The Ektar is in Supermatic Shutter. If I trip the shutter while

holding the button, the shutter hangs open (with a bit of the iris

diaphragm showing). To reset the device, I sort of "recock" the

shutter slightly and it falls closed. I'm guessing this is the right

mode of operation, then, right? Thanks.

 

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Another quick question. Is there a company out there that sells

"generic" lensboards that I can mount my ektar lens in? B&H sells

lensboards for my Sinar that cost $80.00 each. Is there a company that

sells generic lensboards for considerably less? Thanks.

[ellis_vener_photography]

There is ebay for used Sinar boards and the full size Horseman

boards will also fit Sinar Cameras.

[wayne_crider3]

Yes you are opening the shutter right, but should be able to open the

iris completly. Are you setting it at maximum aperture?

[edward_kang]

Wayne,

 

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Yep! It's at full aperture:

 

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Shutter open on "T" mode, f/7.7:

 

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<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/iris1.jpg>

 

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Shutter open on 1/30 speed, f/7.7 with preview engaged:

 

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<img src=http://www.nd.edu/~ekang/forum/lfq/iris2.jpg>

 

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I guess I'll just live with it.

[s._polke]

The ground glass (with glass and frame) comes off the camera

completely...leaving a metal frame with two sliding clips. Your 6th

picture shows what you remove(the ground glass that you normally slide

your film holder under) -- you should be able to clip the roll film

holder onto what is left behind on the camera --- it's just a square

hole with two clips.<p>Your picture "This way" looks correct to me ---

at least, that's how I have always done it...thus the little collar on

the mounting ring protrudes into the hole that you have in the lens

board, tightening it up.<p>

s.k. grimes can probably tell you what size hole you need. I think he

makes them too. Stephen Shuart also makes lens boards. I don't have

their web addresses but they both have sites. I might try making a

lensboard myself out of thin plywood while I wait for my board to

arrive. My first view camera had a home made plywood lens board -- I

used it for years without a problem.

[s._polke]

Oh yeah -- I had an older Ektar lens and shutter that did the same

thing yours does -- so it either may just be the way it works or it may

be a common symptom of a shutter getting older. I just used it as is.