john sypal Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 <p>Yesterday I got back some film and prints from the past couple of weeks to find a few from each roll afflicted with these black areas on the left hand side. All were shot with my MP and the cosina 40mm Nokton.</p> <p><img id="image2835" src="http://kenshukan.net/john/archives/checkspeeds.jpg" alt="checkspeeds.jpg" /></p> <p>Figuring that it must be something to do with the shutter, I took the MP down to the ginza Leica shop this morning. They said that all speeds are right on, and that the camera is just fine. So is this the fault of the lens? Most of the prints from the 16 rolls I had processed were just fine, but the ones shot wide open at a fast speed (usually at 1/1000) have this black thing to the left. But then again others at f1.4 and slower speeds were just fine. The next step would be to shoot the Nokton wide open with my Bessa, or shoot another lens on my MP wide open to see if it is the lens or the body that needs help. But before I invest in that I figured that it might be a good idea to check here first. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_s Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 This is called shutter <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/002il1">shading.</A> It is unfathomable that the goofs in the Leica shop could not tell you this. Your camera needs a CLA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw12dz Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 First off, I'm not an expert in this area, but from other postings that I have seen, I would venture to say that it is a shutter curtain problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grand_yanr Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 The shutter curtain did not open properly at high speed. It needs lubrication and adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john sypal Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 Thanks- I did not know the actual term. Looks like I'll head back with some prints and see what can get done this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_bailie Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I also have this problem with my M3. Can anyone suggest a reasonably priced technician to do a CLA in the UK or Ireland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive1 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I love the first one John! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_r._fulton_jr. Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Shutterinteruptist - caused by wonderful looking subjects. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I think that it's caused by using Japanese color film in a Leica -- it simply overwhelms them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_shriver Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 The first curtain is running slow, or at least taking a while getting up to speed. It should be obvious if you set the shutter to 1/1000, take off the lens, flip up the back, and hold the camera in front of you looking through the back at a bright wall. You'll see that you don't see the wall on the right side of the shutter opening. (Remember that the image is upside down in the camera.) It could be caused by a chip of film in the works, if you've had any winding mishaps that tore out the bar between two sprockets. (Although that's more a screwmount Leica problem.) Otherwise the camera just needs a CLA. (Although it's appalling that an MP should need a CLA already. Sounds almost like a QA problem, unless this camera has been used hard, or stored under conditions that messed up the lubrication.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary e Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 John, unfortunately your first curtain is having sticky issues. Seems your MP needs a brake adjustment. The exposure seems alright which means your second curtain is closing at speed. I don't think you should ask for a full CLA as that will most definitely cost more than a brake adjustment and the fact that it is an MP which should be relatively new. See if you can find a competent Leica repair person in your part of the world and show them these photos. They should be able to remedy this in a jiffy. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Lazzari Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Wow... John's film particle theory is wrong! The Leica shop was wrong! Gary's brake theory is wrong! Film debris blockage into the fine shutter barrel gearing would cause an out-right JAM... The Leica shop saw only & checked the center portion of the film plane. (A one sensor shutter speed checker). A three sensor; begin, middle and end sensor design would have picked it up. With the latter you can then adjust for the Curtain Travel Times, CTT spec for the 1st & 2nd curtains on a Leica MP, (whether 1 second or 1,000th), should be 16 milliseconds... The brake mechanism in a shutter, unless tampered by Gary, is RARELY touched! This is for the prevention of the 2nd curtain bouncing and if its overly tightened, you would get the 1st & 2nd curtain to meet before leaving the FULL frame. The brake isn't encountered until the last 2mm of the film plane... The gradient imaging defect is remedied first by cleaning then re-lubricating. Only then do you deviate from Leica's precise barrel spring adjustments. Dave, Stuart & Grand were right! Sorry but no matter what an over-the-counter sales/repair person tells you, THIS IS camera repair 101... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoc Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 My MP developed a similar problem like shown in your photos (In my case a vertical dark stripe on the right side of the frame, when using 1/1000s or 1/500s) and I sent it to Leica Japan (Ginza) for repair under warranty (camera was 2 years old). Leica replaced the shutter and also electronics (batteries drained in record-time).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john sypal Posted July 7, 2008 Author Share Posted July 7, 2008 Thanks again for all the helpful replies. I'll take this new found knowledge and some of the example prints back to Ginza after work this week and see if I can't get this worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard s. Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Give Mr Yasuda a go. http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~M-yasuda/ He is located in Nippori and is passionate about Leicas. He trained at Leica in the 1960s and still regularly shoots with a Barnack. He did a fantastic job of restoring my old Leica II - as you know! Best to drop by his shop with a few photos and let him take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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