To critique or not to critique

[catherinevankempen]

Hi All, I am new to photonet and will be joining officially next week (when I

get my next paycheck ... ah, the joys of living hand to mouth) but I would like

to hear your opinion on the critique forms. I personally love to critique other

people's work. I do not believe in just saying: "Great shot", I like to tell

people why I love their images. I feel this is the only way an artist can learn

and grow. This also means that I like telling people what I think could be

better. I am not being "mean" or overly critical, I just know that I would

rather hear what people really think about my work, so I assume others think the

same way. After all, we are all artists and presumably we want to get better at

what we do. Now for my question, is it considered proper Photonet etiquette to

actually give feedback, I read a lot of "great shot" and "I love it" comments.

Do you think people take it the wrong way when I go into details about

compositional elements, or color, or sharpness. So far the critiques I have

given seem to have been appreciated, but of course, I am only hearing back from

a small number of photographers. I don't know what those that don't respond

think of my critiques or if they are offended. I have been avoiding critiquing

the images that I personally think need the most feedback just because I do not

want to hurt anyones feelings. That being said, I would never be malicious or

mean spirited, I just want to help those that in my opinion need the most

guidance. I am in no way an expert, I just find that it is often easier for

outsiders to see an image objectively than it is for the photographer. I believe

that a thoughtful critique causes others to respond in kind and a sort of

dialogue is created where different people give different views, which I think

is absolutely wonderful. After all, we are not meant to all agree with each

other. Please, I would love to hear your thoughts on this matter, I will be out

of the country for the next couple of days, but I am looking forward to reading

your comments when I get back. Happy shooting, Catherine

ps. I also posted this in philosophy of photography forum, sorry for the dupe.

[Michael R Freeman]

> "Now for my question, is it considered proper Photonet etiquette to actually give feedback ..."

 

Of course. :-)

 

Constructive critiques should always be welcomed. Most people here are mature enough to accept critiques that are offered in the spirit of improving an image. Of course, you will also run across many individuals who are only looking for praise, and sometimes they react poorly and behave like a little spoiled 6 year old when they don't get a "Wow - great shot" comment. That's too bad for them, but don't let that put you off critiquing if that is how you enjoy participating in the community on this site.

 

And welcome to photo.net.

[rascal64]

"Should" is a dangerous judgemental word. I get in a lot of trouble when I decide what people SHOULD be doing. You have a big mix of people here...a lot of sensitive artists...a lot of egos...a lot of gracious photographers...a lot of well...people. You will soon discover who welcomes your comments and who doesn't. PN put in place a "no revenge ratings" safety net. The only caution on critiques is the same as any email/chat room environment. It is easy to attach emotion to typed words that isn't there. So...critique with care. I for one always enjoy the comments as long as it is not attacking...patronizing or dismissive.Welcome to PN!

[iliafarniev]

I think a sutable comment may be an alternative to this dramatic delema.

[catherinevankempen]

Hi Ilia,

What do you mean with suitable comment?

Catherine

[neverett]

Definately worth 'attaching' yourself to a few people that give honest and detailed feedback; make it a mutual thing and it is most assuredly a worthwhile exercise! Depending on what you're after it may be worthwhile checking the 'critique only' box; some rating out of seven has never helped anyone become a better photographer and in my opinion is a flaw in the underlying principles of PN. Make sure you find the people with the big ego's and step on their toes ;)

[gsphotoguy]

Here on photo.net I try to give honest feedback whenever I rate an image. I will tell the person what I like and what I would change, if anything.

 

I attend meetings of a photography group in Cental New Jersey where that is the rule. People will show work then open the floor for comments. I have received much honest, helpful feedback that has gone a long way to improving my images. Often it also helps validate the vision that led to the photographs as well.

[Norma Desmond]

I always look at the portfolios of someone who gives me negative feedback. That

will often convince me that I am right about my own work. Sometimes not. The

hardest part about getting critiques is assessing what rings true and what doesn't

and trying to remember that you're not necessarily out to please everyone. I

certainly am not, yet I still get a bit of a twinge when someone says something

negative. But I get over it the more comfortable and confident I get in my own work.

 

When critiquing others, I try to keep my taste out of it and critique based on what I

think their vision is. Whether I like something is less important to me in a critique

than whether they have achieved their goal and vision. The minute I want to criticize

an element or technique, etc. is the minute I step back and try to see it from their

point of view, from what they are seeing and doing, before opening my big mouth. I

still often do, as many of my PN friends can attest, but I try to think twice or three

times before doing so.

[think27]

Moderator Note: Here are the responses to this post that was a duplicate thread in this forum::

 

 

Chinmaya Sn [subscriber] [Frequent poster] , Jun 09, 2008; 04:07 p.m. (edit | delete)

 

I believe in constructive criticism, I personally welcome all kind of critiques and I believe that most would welcome a good critique. If critique is always only negative comments/feedback, it might hurt the moral.

 

Gordon Bowbrick [subscriber] [Frequent poster] [Current POW Recipient] , Jun 09, 2008; 05:50 p.m. (edit | delete)

 

In the end I believe it all comes down to your tone.Judging from your posting above, I doubt you would receive much in the way of negative response toward an honest critique. All lot of people offer up sugar coated comments instead of in depth critique. I think this has to do with the amount of effort and time a serious critique takes. I am happy if other members take the time to look at my work and leave a comment of any kind. The most discouraging response is no response.

 

Catherine Van Kempen , Jun 09, 2008; 06:12 p.m. (edit | delete)

 

Gordon, I agree with you, I would rather receive a comment that may not be as positive than none at all. If I don't receive any reaction I feel my image hasn't touched the viewer. Chinmaya, Again, I think there is always a positive in any image, if nothing else the intent to create is there and that in my eyes is the biggest positive of all. Thanks for your reactions, Catherine

[colourabstractionism]

The whole of the art world is a very subjectively natured thing. What one person loves another may hate intensely.

 

Take my photo's for example, they are very much like marmite. However, I still appreciate when people leave constructive criticism, as this is how everyone grows.

 

Be passionate and proud, yet realistic but ambitious.

Chris

[iliafarniev]

Hi Catherine.

 

Well. The word critique imply some sort of context or common ground or practical aspect and comes supposedly from somewhat superior authority. Like the editor might be critical about photos the photographer brings in but it does not make sense for a photographer to critique editors ways.

 

The comments are neutral, not bonding way to express personal meaning.

 

I see no reason two creative photographers criticize each others work on PN but it can be sutable to express, say admiration in case.

[catherinevankempen]

Hi Ilia,

I'm afraid I disagree on that point. I do not believe critique implies one party is superior to the other. I think "being critical" and "critiquing" are two different things. Being critical has a more negative connotation than the word critiquing carries with it. I think constructive (with constructive being the key word here) critisism is a conversation between two, in this case photographers. It is an exchange of ideas; it is not meant to tell someone there work is bad or how they should shoot. It is just a way for two artists to exchange ideas about ones work.

 

The reason I post my pictures on PN is to see what others think of my work, what they think I could do to improve, what others think works or doesn't work. I think this is where being thoughtful comes in. It is so easy to say you do or don't like someones work, it is much more difficult to tell them why. Everyone has their likes and dislikes, and most everyone will have a different opinion. If I see a photo I really like but it is not sharp I could "critique" that photographer by saying that I really like the image, I like the emotion, composition, color, lighting ... but it is distracting to me that the image isn't sharp. On the other hand if I think a photo is absolutely gorgeous I will say why.

 

I think the reason why I read complaints on PN about people not getting their work critiqued is because others are afraid to give an honest critique. If you only react to those image you really like, the less successful images get no feedback and are left to wonder what people really think or how they may improve their images. It seems so much more constructive to me to openly say to someone:"In my eyes this image is not working because of ... [fill in the blank]. Whether or not that person agrees with you, disagrees, sort of agrees, ... really doesn't matter, it is just a different opinion.

 

If I just want people to pat me on the back and say how wonderful my work is I just show it to my mother who would still put my pictures up on the fridge if I let her. According to her I am the next Nan Goldin or Cindy Sherman (not that she knows who those women are but you get the picture).

 

Anyhow, I have rambeled on long enough, but if I can ask you for one favor, if you do run across one of my images and you have any kind of emotional reaction to it, be it positive or negative, please let me know. I for one would welcome it.

 

Catherine

[catherinevankempen]

Hey Christopher,

 

If nothing else you learn something new from these forums because I had no idea what marmite was till I googled it.

I do agree with your post though, art is by nature a subjective thing. I think it is next to impossible to view any art in a purely objective way. We are humans and humans will always attach their own experiences to anything they view.

 

That being said, I am passionate, I am proud, and I am ambitious, ... its the realistic part I still need to work on.

 

BTW I checked out your portfolio and I guess I'm a lover. I never have had the self confidence to take a red rectangle and tell people: I have created this, this is my art. I admire and envy you that.

 

Catherine

[doug_gentry]

Catherin, In my humble opinion, If I choose to post a photo on this particular site, I

hope to receive both, positive comments, praise, (heck we all need a pat on the

back), and I truly appreciate "critiques". It's a pleasure to view your own work from

another's point of view. However, I must keep in mind, I create for myself and other

times I create for a feeling, a moment or a person. It's not being "mean" to explain

how to improve upon an image. I've learned much in the first year showing and

viewing photos from around the world on PN. It's an art form, and we all see art and

interpret art based on our own experiences. Enjoy creating, and along the way if you

make some one smile, or see the world from a different point of view, so much the

better. Express yourself, I'm learning to! Regards, Doug.

[hakim]

Hi Catherine,

 

I have liked your photos until your last, submitted in the nude section. Noticing one of yours that caught my eye, I visited your portfolio and liked what I saw. I said nothing in the way of 'critique' because I have nothing useful to say.

 

As a student of writing, one of the concepts I have recently come upon is that of 'critical friend', where one commits to an ongoing relationship with the intention of supporting each others growth and development.

 

I have not 'critiqued' your work because I am a beginner. I am looking, watching, learning. If I think I can contribute something that will help your or support your development I will. But I will continue to watch your work, seeing where it goes.

 

I wish you all the best,

Hakim

[catherinevankempen]

Doug, I think we are on the same page here. I guess I'm finding it difficult coming from an environment where critiquing was the name of the game and it could get ugly. The good thing was that it was face to face and there was more of a dialog going on, it wasn't the one shot deal you often get here. Since we did so much of it (I was an art student) it seldom got taken personally, everyone understood it was about the images, not about personality or getting back at someone. It didnt matter if you liked the person, you were critiquing there work. Im learning that the majority of PN'ers are on the same page as you and I.

 

Hakim, It does feel nice to get a wonderful compliment, and I cant ask for more than "catching someone's eye". I dont think you need to be a pro to critque someones work, I personally like reading or hearing what kind of emotions one of my images provokes and you don't need to be an expert to have reactions. Sometimes its even better to hear from someone who doesn't let composition and technicalities get in the way of how an images makes them feel. I'm on my way over to your portfolio, can't wait to see it.

 

Keep on Keepin' on,

Catherine