Photographing printed type � Microscope with 1Ds Mark III

[milan_moudgill]

Hi all,

 

I hope this is the right palce for this query:

 

I am looking to put together a system to photograph details of printed type (serifs etc.) with a 1Ds

Mark III.

Printed typeforms will mean working at (printed) sizes of possibly 0.2mm to 1mm. I would like to

'fill frame' with these details (of printed type.)

All of this will be shot in studio.

 

I have done a fair bit of reading on which the following is based:

1. Need frontlighting only? (Thinking of the MT 24EX Macro Twin Light).

2. Looking at the microscope tube adapter (NT41), and the T-mount adapter (NT54-350) from

edmundoptics.com to connect the camera to a microscope with 10x/20x and 40x objectives.

 

I hope I am not thinking impractical or being stupid here? Please do course correct if I am way off.

 

If I am more or less correct, I need help in identifying a suitable microscope...

Is it advisable to get a trinocular (stereo/compound) scope for photomicrography?

If optical quality of the final image is of concern, what brands are desirable?

Do you recommend a model that will give me 'sharp' and 'beautiful' images?

Eventually the images will be blown up around 3ft

 

What else do I need to know? (apart from vibration concerns � sturdy tripod, mirror-up, etc.)

 

The type cannot be scanned, which would be the easy thing to do. The subject are old fragile

books.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Milan

[gerard]

Milan,

 

Some alternatives for you before going the microscope way:

 

5X with the MP-e65

10X w/ MP-E65 + 2x multiplier

10x w/35f/2.8 Macrophoto + bellows (rare lens, from the FD series)

20x w/20f/3.5 Macrophoto + bellows (VERY rare lens)

 

This dedicated systems will potentially provide you better sharpness and image rendition than microscope optics.

 

Regarding light, some frontal but modelling light will be OK for your purposes. Using the ratio option of the MT-24EX to give different outputs to either flashhead will do the trick.

 

(side note: those are very small typeforms you're talking about)

 

-kr, Gerard.

[bob_sunley]

The biggest problem you have is finding an affordable microscope the will let you put a book on the stage. Regular microscopes are used at much higher magnifications and have small stages. Your best bet is either a high power macro lens on a set of bellows, or a stereo type microscope mounted on a boom type stand so you can position it anywhere over a page of a book.

 

If you have a decent budget for the hardware, contact one of the used microscope dealers like http://www.microscopesfromnightingale.com/

you will get what you need, and it will work much better than something you try and piece together yourself.

 

You will end up with nice fuzzy edged text on a background of nice infocus fibres of the paper. Successful high magnification photographs are a result of equipment and operator skills, the second being as or more important that the first.

 

Start here to work on the knowledge and skills side of the problem before you start shopping for the hardware. http://www.krebsmicro.com/

 

Bob

[gerard]

sorry, I lost the formatting in the previous post<br>

 

These are the options I listed:<br>

<ul>

<li>5X with the MP-e65</li>

<li>10X w/ MP-E65 + 2x multiplier </li>

<li>10X w/35f/2.8 Macrophoto + bellows (rare lens, from the FD series)</li>

<li>20X w/20f/3.5 Macrophoto + bellows (VERY rare lens) </li>

</ul>

 

I hope that makes it more readable.<br>

 

-kr, Gerard.

[mark u]

I do not think this project will be easy. Among things to be thought about:

 

Can you ensure that you can bring the lens and lighting to bear on the subject (may be difficult with most microscopes - look at inverted or other designs suitable for large subjects, and not easy with high magnification macro/bellows setups)?

 

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/anatomy/reflected.html

 

(there is much other useful information about microscopy at that site).

 

How much light can the manuscripts stand? Bright flash at short working distances may be too intense, risking damage to the subject. Multiple weaker flashes or long exposure times may be preferred (with the benefit that the camera can be operated in bulb mode, negating vibration from the shutter and mirror). However, low light makes focus difficult. Remember when using macro/bellows that effective aperture is 1+M times marked aperture where M is magnification, so the MP-E 65 wide open at 5x is just f/16.8 - a dim view.

 

You may also want to consider whether the 1Ds Mk III is the right (or at least only) camera to use. There is some advantage to maximising pixel density - especially given that microscopes do not offer variable zoom, but rather a range of fixed magnifications. You might want to add a 450D or even a Pentax K20D to help maximise pixels per serif. You may also want to investigate what a microscope manufacturer's dedicated kit can achieve: for example, Zeiss have a 13MP module with no Bayer demosaicing required which might be as good as a 25MP Bayer sensor for resolution (I don't know for sure, but it's roughly what theory would suggest).

 

I'm not sure that I agree with Gerard about sharpness and image rendition at high magnification: a good microscope will do very well, being a purpose designed instrument. However, as such instruments are expensive, especially with top notch optics, you may want to try and get some time on a lab microscope at an academic or industrial location.

 

Bear in mind that at very high magnification you will be revealing the fibre structure of the paper (subject to depth of field limitations) and blotting migration of the ink dye rather than true detail of the typeface. You may find this link informative about that, and the use of the MP-E 65:

 

http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/macro.html

[milan_moudgill]

Thanks for the tips!

 

Bob, I am painfully aware that operator skills are the key, and that there is a lot of

learning needed before putting down a single dollar � therefore the thread! Good to

hear that constantly. Keeps the mind on the overall picture.

 

Gerard, read about the macrophots (and the MP-E65) and have been considering

their 5x advantage. The downer is the bellows. The novoflex universal bellows with

(EOS compatible) reversal accessories et all add upto some 1300 dollars approx.

Now idea when (and for how much) a macrophot will turn up on e-bay? Which means

if I am to look at the MP-E65, I add another 835 dollars to the budget!

 

Not sure how much the total magnification will be with 192mm extension (along with

the 5x used in reverse)? Any guesses? Will need to weigh this against the

advantages of using a microscope. (all disadvantages/shortcomings already pointed

out having been well taken).

 

Best,

 

Milan