buying nice user Leica SM ?

[mark_hahn]

Ok, getting sick of FSU SM RF after my slow speeds freak out in my otherwise

nice Zorki user today... and all my other FED and Zorkis have some issue or

another... I guess they were all fun in a way...

 

Looking for a kind of budget SM Leica, KEH doesn't have anything that jumps out

at me to buy... so asking for advice where else to look. I guess all I'm

looking for is good cosmetics, bright RF and prefer 1/1000th...

 

Willing to look at other than Leica brand, but figure that servicing for Leica

will be easier to find, possible parts etc.

 

Always want nice cosmetics since if I end up paying for servicing, I feel like

an idiot fixing something that won't look nice in the end...

 

thanks

[ronald_moravec1]

111f red dial is what you want. Buy a nice cosmetic and have it overhauled.

 

Get new curtains if you intend to keep it. They are all old and rotting unless they have

been replaced, although they may look good.

 

I have bought two screw mounts, 111f and 111c. The c was unused and the shutter had

holes and left streaks not from the holes. The f was almost mint and the same high

speeds left streaks although there were no holes. I can`t explain the high speed shutter

streaking. Neither could DAG and he worked on it 6 months. In the end, both went to

Mark Hamma and he just replaced the curtains a second time on both and the cameras

are now perfect. The c was also at a less competent repair person who replaced the

curtains and I ate the cost of that repair. He never did get it right after 3/4 tries.

 

Based on my experience, I would never again get a screw mount Leica.

 

I might add a neighbor sent his black dial in for new curtains. His came back with high

shutter speed streaking also. It is still that way, although the curtains look new. It went to

a repairman we all trust.

 

I like the two cameras, but they ended up costing me a fortune, double what they are

worth, but at least they are perfect operationally and almost perfect cosmetically.

 

The f seems to run smoother because the c does not have ball bearing shutter races.

The difference is slight and you have to have them side by side to see it, but it is there.

Therefore I recommend the f, 111G if you got a lot of money.

 

Financially you will be better with an M, but the screws are nice and small and fun.

[sw12dz]

A Leica screwmount is going to be 50+ years old and will definitely need a CLA. When you get done with that, you'll still have a 50+ year old camera with a squinty viewfinder. Check out cameraquest.com and read up on the various Bessa models. The collectors aren't grabbing up Bessa's, so they are still priced within reason and they are a heck of a lot better than FED's and ZORKI's! The Bessa's with the M mount will still accept screwmount lenses when used with an adapter. As always, this is just my humble opinion.

[orvillerobertson]

I would also highly recommend the screwmount Bessas or the M mount ones with

adapters for your lenses. You can also get Canon screwmounts like the P, which is a

highly rated camera.

[Aoresteen]

I have a IIIf RD and it is a wonderfull camera. DAG overhauled it when I first got it and I've had no issues with it ever.

 

I use the 15mm and 21mm on it mostly.

[Rob F.]

I have bought two IIIcs, one a 1946/7, and the other a 1950. They both needed overhaul. John Maddox at L&J camera repair did the work. He wasn't expensive, even counting the new shutter curtain for the 1950 model.

 

Actually I believe that postwar IIIcs do have ball bearings. I'm not completely sure. I think that at least the later IIIcs, the ones produced concurrently with the IIIf, have them. My 46/7 and my 1950 sound the same to me, and they are very smooth. My guess is that they have them. The shutters and the wind-on are smoother than in my 1934 II, if that means anything.

[mark_hahn]

I'm looking at the classic SM Leicas because... well, I like shooting classic cameras... and also, I want something that will fit in a loose pocket (with collapsible lens)... the M's don't really fit in your pocket nor do the Bessas (most lenses will not collapse fully)... so yeah, the R3A looks nice enough... but not quite what I want to spend $500+ on... I'm very much more a SLR person than a RF... but sometimes you don't want an SLR around your neck.

[john_elder1]

Rollei 35 S

[mark_hahn]

I like fast 50's and closer focusing... guess focusing works fine for 35mm and f4... I could buy another Rollei 35S... but that is a separate purchase :)

 

I bought a new battery for my Minox GL today... I find that the Minox serve me better in the niche where the Rollei 35 would fit... though the Rollei's are quite the little beauties!

[sw12dz]

Mark,

 

It's just not cricket to give us additional parameters after the initial post.

[mark_hahn]

What new parameters? That it fit in my pocket? Sorry! :)

 

Why else would I be looking at Leica SM cameras? If not for size, I'd just as well shoot my R4 and Summicron.

[Richard Williams]

I don't think it matter which Leica SM model you get, provided it has the features you need (such as they are). Any II or better has a rangefinder, and any IIIa, IIIb, IIIc or IIIf will have the full shutter speed range. A IIIa will probably be cheapest. The IIIg is nice, but can cost more than an M6 and is less pocketable than the others. I don't think the ball bearing thing is a really big deal, I'm guessing you won't be using the IIIf's flash synch, and the increased rigidity of the IIIc/IIIf/IIIg chassis is only relevant if you want to try very big lenses. Look instead for condition and avoid cameras that may need expensive repairs beyond a CLA and possible curtain replacement. Is the rangefinder image bright and distinct? Is the vulcanite (rubber covering) intact? Does the shutter sound right at all speeds and not stick on the low speeds? (you can time the 1s). Cosmetically 'perfect' cameras command a large premium, but a few 'bright marks' / light scratches can lower the price substantially without making the camera ugly to the non-collector. Ideally buy from someone who will let you put a roll of film through the camera first, or who offers a returns policy. The last time I looked at a bunch of these cameras at a couple of local dealers, the majority had something that needed attention (usually the RF brightness or slow speeds). Get a collapsible 50mm lens to start with, so that the whole thing is pocketable and you can use the built-in viewfinder.

[anthony_brookes5]

I used to think I needed 1/1000th but found I virtually never used it. Of all my Leica IIIs the one I find nicest is my 1936 Leica III - the smallest of them in size and the best built in my opinion. With a Summar - or a Summicron it has almost everyting. A delightful camera and I still use it for the Leica look.

[steve_levine]

Leica CL would be my choice.

[paul_neuthaler]

I have a 1A, II, IIIA, IIIC and a IIIF RD. All are wondeful shooters, except the 1A which, IMHO,

is a collectible. The least expensive SMs are the IIIC and the IIIF B lack Dial. Whichever you

get, if you add an appropriate Leitz Briteline finder you will truly enjoy shooting with these

exquisite pieces of photographic jewelry!

[ev1]

I agree with Paul. I have a 50 year old IIc that I like using. I also have M bodies but there is

something special about using a LTM body that a Bessa or M cannot duplicate.

I have a couple of suggestions of where to look and repair, email me off-line.

[orvillerobertson]

Mark, I'm not sure how to help you if you're leaning towards pocketable SLRs. You might

try looking for the old Konica FT-1 with the pancake 40/f1.8 lens, which was very compact

and an amazing lens. Not sure if the body is compact enough, but it's a small enough and

high quality combination. The Olympus OM-1 was just as good and maybe easier to find.

[mark_hahn]

Thanks all for the input!

 

no no... I'm not looking for a new SLR (I've got plenty... including the OM-1).

 

There's just something cool and nice about the Barnack style cameras... I love shooting my FED-1, I just can't get it to be reliable. My FSU Elmar clones and I-61 lenses are all excellent... could add a collapsible Summicron though...

[frederick_muller]

Buy a Bessa R and enjoy. Great viewfinder, great meter.

[orvillerobertson]

I really don't like shooting with the Leica screwmounts. Too squinty and a pain to load, but

good luck and happiness using them.

[john_dorfman]

I have used several Leica screwmounts and love them. I haven't found reliability to be a big problem. But whatever you get, get it serviced by a good repairman; I recommend John Maddox for quality, politeness and price. He can take a long time, though, to get it back to you.

 

The "streaking" effect has happened to me. It's caused by the shutter curtains traveling unevenly. I think the slight irregularities in the shape of the edge of one or the other curtain show up on the film, though I can't explain exactly how. Usually this is visible at the higher speeds of 1/200 or faster. Even if there is no streaking, you get an image that is darker on the right side than on the left. This is called shutter tapering. In general, this fault is fixable, though there are cases where it keeps happening, repair after repair. I guess a camera like that you would write off or only use at 1/100 or lower!

 

Anyhow, they're great cameras. Nothing compares to the "feel" of them in your hand. Using an accessory viewfinder is a good idea, even with a 50mm lens. The Voigtlander-Cosina brightlines are excellent, and the old Leitz items are slightly better but more expensive. I wouldn't let the loading faze you. Just trim the leader of the film the way it says to in the instruction booklet and insert it carefully. At first it seems hard, but then gets to be second nature.

 

Have fun!

[michael_p2]

I have been using a Leica IIIa for several years after buying it for a song on *bay. It worked wonderfully from the start and never needed a service. I prefer it to the M3 and Bessa R because it just feels right to me: simple, elegant and small enough to be pocketable when I use it with the Elmar lenses.

I have always wanted a IIIF or even IIIG but unless I win the lottery I will stick with the little wonder from 1937.

[jtk]

No film camera's more fun than a Leica LTM.

 

I've owned several: IIF, IIF, IIIG, and currently (forever) IIIC.

 

My favorite was the IIF ...slow speed dials just complicate things.

 

Red dial doesn't contribute functionality.

 

Many Canon bodies are as good as any Leica, as are several Canon lenses.

 

By comparison, the LTM "Voigtlanders" are junk. They do enjoy internal meters, however...maybe interesting to some.

 

I also have a pair of Canon Ps. Canon P are screw mount, have hinged backs, lever advance, 35/50/100 viewfinder frames (the 35 equals M2/4/6). Unfortunately P viewfinder's cluttered. Much tougher machine than M2/3/4/6 et al.

[carbon_dragon]

IIIf BD's may be a little cheaper. Also if you're looking for something vintage AND easy to use and load, there's the Canon 7 (and maybe the P as well). The 7 has a swing open back, a nice big bright viewfinder, and a build in light meter (selenium, so lots of them are inoperative at this point). The downside is that it doesn't have an accessory shoe except for a bolt on one which is hard to find. Very nice screwmount body. Of course there's nothing quite as jewel like as a Leica body in good condition as long as you don't mind the squinty viewfinder.

[steve salmons]

I am surprised no one has suggested a Leica Standard with a small 35mm focal length lens of your choice. Very pocketable and prefocused for depth of field say 12-15feet to infinity you have a Leica point and shoot solution.