Best Buy in Used Medium Format

[paul_mcevoy]

I'm interested in getting a medium format camera. I have a Canon 5d and love

what it can do but I'd like to shoot some color film, and see what I can do

with it. I feel like digital is missing some warmth and I-don't-know-whatness

and wondering if I can get the look I want with film or not.

 

I'm wondering what the best buy on an older MF camera is. My interest is in

photojournalism and portraiture. I'd consider a rangefinder, Hassy, or TLR.

I guess my priorities would be cost, ease of use (as in speed) and optical

quality, in that order.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

Paul

 

 

paulmcevoy.net

[bueh]

Cost: Mamiya RB67 (an RZ is also nice), older M645s, vintage cameras.

<p>

Ease of use: Motorized 645 <abbr title="single-lens reflex camera">SLR</abbr> (e.g., Mamiya M645 Super and later models).

<p>

Optical quality: Mamiya 6 or 7 rangefinder.

[sam c]

Based on your priorities of cost, ease of use, and optical quality I would venture to say the Bronica systems (SQ-Ai or ETR-Si) would be a good bet, they're fairly cheap on the used market these days. The glass is great and affordable. I personally would try to seek out a classic Hassy 500 C/M with the standard 80mm f/2.8 Planar as a starter. Many are well used, so seek out the best one you can. Should be able to get it for well under $1000. Great camera for classic portraiture. Had one and loved it. Sold it, and still miss it. Good luck on your search.

[richterjw]

I have used a Mamiya M645 for some time. They can be found fairly cheaply on used equipment auction sights. They have great lenses and are well reputed. JR

[randall ellis]

I second the Mamiya RB67 system. It features a rotating interchangeable back system, many solid lens options, great quality, reliability, and an affordable price. It is also easy to use in my opinion. I was able to pick up my kit (one body, two backs, two finders, three lenses, two screens, hoods, etc..) for a very affordable price compared to other brands. Check the price of the entire outfit you would like to have, including other lenses that you may not buy up front, before committing to a system. that way you know that you wont hit a wall in price when you want to expand. Just my 2 cents...

 

- R

[paul_mcevoy]

Thanks for the answers so far...much appreciated. Is there much of an optical difference between the different brands? I feel like Hassy has a kind of "look" but not sure...maybe it's because that's what a lot of the medium format I've seen is shot on.

[bueh]

<blockquote><i>I feel like Hassy has a kind of "look" but not sure...

</i></blockquote><p>

Maybe if you believe in it hard enough... otherwise no. There are optical differences plus the advantages of a larger negative (i.e., 6x7 or 6x9 vs 645), but even an M645 or Kiev-60 will produce stunning images with all the nice medium format tonality and bokeh. Then again, nothing beats the Mamiya rangefinders for sharpness, but unless you are EXTREMELY picky and shoot test patterns in a lab, this will not be an issue.

[william_tuovinen]

Seeing as how you aren't asking to make huge landscape enlargements I think that you

should be able to get what you're looking for from a Rollei TLR nock off for the best price.

My first foray into MF was with a little Yashica Mat on loan from a friend. Some of my

favorite photographs were taken with that little camera. I still miss its nearly silent

operation and the ability to see my subject in portraits at the moment the shutter released

(as opposed to having to wind that big Hassy mirror back down), alas its on extended loan

from me to another friend. There is a reason you can see so many press photographers

back in the day carrying TLRs, and then see the same cameras in the hands of master

portrait and fashion photographers.

I would try looking at TLRs to start as you wont have to worry about whether the film

backs, the body, and the lenses are in working order, just whether the one package

works. I was happy with my Yashica to start but moved to a modular system after a while

for personal operating preference(shooting Hassies now). Seagulls are around too for a

bargain but I was ushered away by mentors on account of a somewhat spotty build and

QC on them(I have no real personal experience to back this up, but they did seem to be

right about so many things), esp. when compared to better(more prestigious atleast)

cameras for not much more.

As for ease of use, its all the basic controls mostly, thankfully no menus to go through

until you get to the latest and greatest before the digital switch.

Bottom line I think you can afford to buy in low, try it and if its not what you thought you

wanted after a good level of experimenting sell out for about what you put in minus the

film.

By the way the missing part of the 5d is called a soul, then again I'm alive and well(ish)

even though I sold mine.

[steve_dawson1]

'By the way the missing part of the 5d is called a soul'

 

So the box with a piece of plastic coated with various chemicals has some kind of ineffable, eternal existence, whereas the box with the semiconductor is just a thing?

 

Or is it just a question of nostalgia? Mind you, I'm not saying that's not a good reason to have a go with film!

[paul_mcevoy]

Steve I must agree. The 5D is just another tool to me. The real inspiration for me wanting to shoot some film is this guy: http://www.joakimeskildsen.com/default.asp?Action=Menu&Item=99 I'm not sure I can get pictures that look like that with digital. Maybe I can, but it'd be interesting to see if my pictures lack the same thing with digital and film. He is a total master of available light, and I think his pictures would be beautiful in whatever format he shot them.

[antonio_a.1]

Best buy right now is a Hasselblad 500C/M with 80/2.8 T* Planar. Awesome camera,

awesome image quality - and available very cheap on eBay and elsewhere.

[bill_clark___minnetonka_mi]

Try here:

 

http://www.david-odess.com/

[dale_yarbrough]

How about a Pentax 67? Easy to find, inexpensive, controls similar to an SLR, great range of lenses, built like a truck (and weighs about the same,) and has "lots of soul."

[gary_watson]

Given your priorities, I'd also look into the Pentax 645 system--probably the most 35mm SLR-like of the bunch. Very affordable now with great, low-cost glass and flexible built-in metering.

[rod_sainty2]

Paul, I enjoyed looking at the website you linked to. If you look at the "Texts" section, you'll see that Joachim used a Pentax 67 with 55mm, 90mm and 135mm lenses, a Widelux and a Hasselblad X-Pan. And a tripod. B&W on TMAX-400, developed in D-76. The Pentax is certainly a "best buy" in part because the lenses are inexpensive, yet of excellent optical quality. The camera is easy to use, apart from the film loading which requires some practice, and robust.

[httpwww.someantyx.coma]

I would concur with the other responses. I personally don't feel that brand is all that

important as aesthetics are. How it feels in your hands, etc. I have an RB67 with 2 lenses

I'm trying to sell right now because it just doesn't 'fit' right for me. I love the 6x7

negatives, the richness, etc.

 

I picked up a Mamiya 645AFD short term and am interested in the pentax 67 as well. I like

to hand hold as opposed to tripod and the RB67 is HUGE.

 

Digital has its place, the workflow is much faster etc. But the intangible connections we

create to the film cameras is amazing. The first time I pulled the negatives out of the

developing tank I was hooked. Sold my 20D (still have my 1D/II) and got the 645 just

today. I'm really happy so far, but I still have to pull that film out and develop it. I'm really

looking forward to developing that 1st roll of film both as a test for the camera as well as

the excitement.

 

Good luck and welcome to the Dark Side!

[dan_penoff]

While you can't dispute the quality of the Hasselblad, I seriously doubt you can get into a

decent 'blad for under $1000. That's one thing I don't think you have mentioned - your

budget.

 

If this is just a tentative foray into medium format, I would suggest two possible routes:

 

1.) Mamiya C220 or C330 twin lens reflex. You can buy a complete C220 from someplace

reputable like KEH for under $400. If you want to bump it up, go with a C330 and then

you're talking about $500 or just slightly more. These cameras are very rugged and will

go a long way into helping you learn composition and understand how to best use the

format, depending on your subject matter.

 

2.) Mamiya M645E/S/Super or Pro. If you want full-blown metering, motor drive and

interchangeable backs, you can buy an M645 Pro outfit for around $700. Again, if you

want to minimize your investment, try out an M645E, which can be had as a complete

camera for around $300. These cameras will handle more like an oversize 35mm to some

extent, so they might make for an easier transition to medium format. Also, if you decide

you like the M645, the glass is all the same for the whole series, so you can move up by

just buying a newer body and related accessories.

 

Again, I would suggest that you first pick a price range you want to budget for, then get

an idea of what type of equipment is available in that range. Deal with a reputable seller,

such as KEH (and others) so that you don't end up with something that arrives needing

repairs. This is not the time to be buying something off of eBay.

 

I started out over 30 years ago with a YashicaMat 124G, moved up to a Mamiya M645E,

then to an M645 Super, which is where I've been for probably 20 years. I love my M645

Super, and have seriously considered changing to newer or different cameras, but I'm just

stuck on the Super.

 

It's all a matter of what you're comfortable with - just don't make a major investment until

you've found something you like, as it eventually becomes an extension of you...

 

Dan

[calvin_lee]

Mamiya 645E w/80mm f/2.8, 55mm f/2.8, & 150mm f/3.5 N lenses. Total cost for a mint outfit should be no more than $600. The 645E has an excellent built-in meter, aperture-priority exposure + manual exposure, a bright viewfinder, & an adjustable diopter. The camera with those 3 lenses is also fairly lightweight & will only require a PX28 battery, which should last you a few years.

[richard_p]

If the cost is a concern without a loss in quality, you can consider kiev 88cm, kiev 60, and pentacon 6 tl. You have to be very patient since it saves tons of your money. You might come cross some lemons. The truth is: There are good lenses for you to pick up at next to nothing prices. You can start with flektogon 50/4, biometar 80/2.8, biometar 120/2.8, and sonnar 180/2.8 at the very beginning. Make sure the lenses you buy are in a 'mint" condition. I did some USAF chart tests. A good flektogon had 67 lps/mm at f/11 and 74 lps/mm at f/16 in the 4 corners. A good biometar 80/2.8 gave 80-90 lps/mm at f/8 and f/11 in the 4 corners.

[dougolupski]

Paul I was you a few months ago. I shoot a 5d for most shots but ended up with a Mamiya RB67 for a medium format stuff. Look most will say its heavy and bulky. While true its weighs in at 6 lbs with a 90mm lens my 5D with a 70-200 2.8 weighs the same and I don't feel the difference. Big advantage for me was the rotating back, so with a quick flip I can shoot landscape or portrait without having to hold the camera at funny angles. I paid 300.00 for mine with a lense and a left hand grip but if you want a Hassy nows the time to buy with medium format prices plumeting. What ever you do end up buying I don't think you will regret it, I didn't.

[antonio_a.1]

Check out eBay item 120256844514 as an example of what you can now get:

 

Hasselblad 500CM camera body with chrome details, waist level, 80mm f2.8 C T* lens, two

A12 film backs, and neckstrap. USD$699

[User_502260]

If you will shoot mostly on a tripod then an RB67 is handy because of the revolving back. There are many used lenses available to fit the RB and the built-in bellows will get you closer than most other SLR cameras. If you think you might do some hand held shooting then a Bronica SQ series camera with the Speed Grip is nice. You can always put the Bronica on a tripod but using the RB hand held is difficult. For a light set-up the SQ series camera with a waist level finder is nice. Lenses for the SQ series are available and reasonably priced. An ETR series camera is also nice but it isn't as easy to use with a waist level finder if you want to do shoot verticals. Lenses for the ETR series are very inexpensive. You can put together an outfit with 50, 75 and 150 lenses for very little. The Bronica GS-1 will give you the full size 6X7 image and it can be used hand held if you are strong. The only disadvantage of the GS-1 is that lenses for it are not as plentiful and not as inexpensive. For what a Hasselblad will sell for with a back, an 80mm lens and a waist level finder you could get an SQ-A, a prism finder, a back, a Speed Grip and also 50, 80 and 150 lenses. The Hasselblad is undoubtedly better made but this will not be an issue unless you use it constantly.

[dennis_oconnor4]

Let me second the suggestion for a C220 and the 80mm F2.8 lens... FOr the little money you will have invested you will be able to find out if you will stay with MF and wet darkrooms... You can always get your money back out of it if you decide to start chasing Zeiss glass, etc. and more expensive systems...

 

Let me also comment that the Mamiyaflex glass gives a look in BW portraits that is tough to duplicate with any other system....

 

denny

4 bodies and a half bushel of lenses...

[chris_laudermilk]

Just as a reality check on the Mamiya prices, if you go through KEH & get all BGN parts, you can get a 645Pro rig ready to shoot for about $350. That's what I did, and the camera works perfectly. Sure it doesn't look brand new, but it's in great shape where it counts. The pieces I got were a 645Pro body with WG402, non-metered prism, 120 back, and 80/2.8 N lens. I've since added the manual crank & WLF and am still under $400 total.

[sergio maretz]

I would not use Hasselblad and the likes for photojournalism, they are too heavy, and

most have not integrated light meter. Rangefinder (Leica, Bessa) would be fine. Why not

an Hasselblad for portrait and landscape?