Zeiss Ikon: I fell in love and then it broke

[skwp]

I got my Zeiss Ikon from keh.com. Great deal too, $999 for the black version. They're selling for about

1400 elsewhere.

 

First, I must say I've never used a 'real' Leica, although I have a Leica CL, and used to have a Minolta CLE.

Now up until now, I thought the CLE had a unbelievably fantastic viewfinder (Leica CL does not get close

unfortunately). It was large, clear, and bright.

 

The Zeiss Ikon just blew the CLE out of the water completely. I've heard that it also blows away M-series

Leicas. This camera's viewfinder window is just humongous and clear, and has excellent framelines with

very little clutter. The baselength on the rangefinder is so large it's super easy to focus long lenses. The rf

patch is significantly bigger than on the CLE as well. All in all, just fantastic.

 

The metering system - also a pure pleasure. The selected speed is lit up in red, and the recommended

speed flashes. Perfect metered manual, and it's easy to turn the aperture to line them up. It's just intuitive.

 

Loudness: yes this is not a quiet camera. I own a Bessa T (which has a pretty nasty metallic high pitched

sound). As I understand the shutter in the Ikon is also Cosina-made and it definitely shares some

characteristics there. It is much better damped though so it's not a sickeningly loud sound, but it's not

what I understand a Leica to be (based on wav files). It's also louder than the cloth shutter CLE and CL,

although it's almost not so much louder as more metallic.

 

But all in all this body feels, looks, views, and meters fantastically. So what's wrong? Well I guess $1000 is

not enough for them to spend some time making sure the inside is solid. The advance lever stopped

cocking the shutter the day after I got this camera. Now it just happily advances the film without ever

stopping and the shutter remains uncocked. Very sad, so I'm sending this back to KEH hopefully they can

repair it under warranty or replace it. It's sad that a camera this expensive (and yes it's very expensive by

anyone's standards except Leica's) can't get their quality control down right.

[carbon_dragon]

I haven't used this new body but have used the CL, CLE and the M's. I don't think you can really comment on comparisons without having used the M's though. The CL (and CLE) are nice cameras, but the M's are the king of perfect design if you like manual operation.

 

One thing's for sure. My M2 will probably still be operating after your electronics are history (assuming film is still around and it matters). My older Kyocera Contax SLRs are starting to die and there's really no way to fix them. Both my RTSI's are dead and my RTSIII has a small viewfinder problem.

[Prof-K]

did u buy a new one? if not, why blame zeiss rather than keh? try any second hand $3K leica...not so silent either...and with some luck...might break down in an hour or so ;)

 

...point being: while i feel sorry for you, this does not prove that zi is any better/worse than some leica...just try another sample and good luck!

[User_502260]

My RF cameras all hae fixed lenses. I don't use them that often but I enjoy them when I do. They include Konica Auto S2s, an Auto S1.6, Minolta Hi-matic 7, 7S, 7SII, 9, Olympus 35RD, RC, SP, Canonet QL19, QL17GIII and others. The way I understand the CV RF cameras is that they allow you to have the interchageable lens RF experience at a much lower cost than using Leica cameras and with lens alternatives which are quite good even if they aren't exactly up to the standards of Leica lenses. Over the last year or so I bought three Vivitar V4000S cameras and one V4000. These are K mount SLR cameras which I think were made by Cosina. They have vertical shutters and glass pentaprisms. They are very light in weight and contain much plastic. I paid $15-$35 for each of them and they all arrived in working condition. The first Cosina-made Voigtlander with the Leica screw mount now sells for somewhere in the neighborhood of $89 used. That's about what it's worth. The prism is missing and there is no rangefinder. Apart from that it's the same camera as a Vivitar V4000S. Even with a nice rangefinder added and a bayonet mount of some kind they don't seem to me to be worth hundreds of dollars. The Zeiss Ikon version might be somewhat improved.

 

When I compare a Vivitar V4000S to a Nikkormat FT2 from about 1976 I see that the Nikkormat is much heavier. If the Nikkormat is overhauled for $100-$125 it can work nicely for a very long time. The film rewind knob on the V4000S is plastic. On the Nikkormat it's metal. The metal part of the film advance lever on the V4000S is very thin. On the Nikkormat it's much thicker. The V4000S has plastic top and bottom plates. These are metal on the Nikkormat. I can put a 55/1.8 SMC Pentax lens on the V4000S and get very nice results. I can also put a 50/2 'K' or AI Nikkor on the Nikkormat and also get very nice results. The difference is that I expect the Nikkormat to last a lot longer with regular use. I have two Canon F-1 cameras but I am not interested in getting a T-90. Why? The F-1 cameras are very solidly made and very reliable. An electronic camera like the T-90 might work for years or might work for only two days. At this late stage in the life of film photography I have no desire to be sitting on a pile of old electronic cameras which do not work and can't be repaired. If I worked in an area of photography where the electronic controls were useful and if these electronic cameras could still be repaired more easily then I might think differently about the cameras.

 

I know that they are different machines but I think I would rather use a mechanical Nikkormat or Canon FTb or Minolta SRT than a very expensive RF camera made on an inexpensive chasis. Are the CV lenses better than my Nikkors or Canon FL and FD or Rokkor lenses? For the size prints I would usually make I think they are about the same. If I know I will need to make a large print I'll use my Bronica GS-1 and you can compare my prints with those from the most expensive 35mm RF cameras and lenses you can find.

[aaron_benner]

Well if you want to try another I've got a nice one for sale right now in the classifieds, and

$150 cheaper. It works.

[frank]

"Well I guess $1000 is not enough for them to spend some time making sure the inside is solid."

 

????

Even the much cheaper Voigtlanders prove to be very reliable. I have four of them. My ZI works perfektly too. A camera like a Bessa, Leica or ZI is a fine mechanical tool with no zero-defect-guarantee.

There are countless reports of broken brand new M-Leicas right out of the box, that are much more expensive than a ZI. So what? Bad luck. Get a new one and have fun. No need to moan.

[Uhooru]

Did you ever get a chance to actually take some pics? If so, were they properly exposed? I had real trouble with my early VC Bessa's meter accuracy. Or is it that its system is easy to use and looks cool in the finder? 2 seperate topics.

[g-man1]

get an M6

[trex1]

I completely agree with you. The finder on the Cosina cameras is stunning, actually superior to that found on any Leica. After that, though, you are on your own. The Cosina cameras seem very flimsy and tinny, and the shutters are loud, to boot.

 

If you want an RF, an M6 is really the way to go.

 

However, if you are short of cash, you can try an alternative route. I bought a Contax G2 with a 45, 90mm lens, and then a Hexar AF, which is a 35mm lens with a free body thrown in. The whole kit cost about 900 bucks. It's a different experience, and in my mind, for the money, more bang for your buck.

[frank]

"The Cosina cameras seem very flimsy and tinny, and the shutters are loud, to boot."

 

Yes, they SEEM flimsy but they are not.

Ever heard the shutter of a Bessa R4A/M? They are far more quiet than in Bessa R2 times. It's time to say goodbye to a prejudice.

[lauren_macintosh]

Every body can come up with a lemon: one in while:

[trex1]

But Cosina blew it. If they want to be a Leica killer, they ought to do it right. I just don't get it. In 50 years, the Japanese have not been able to build a camera in the same league, never mind improving on it.

[fred_c1]

Right. Who needs variable magnification finders like those found on 50-year-old Canons? Coughing up for a coupla more bodies is the way to go.

 

You can even pay 1120 Euros for a marginally quieter shutter and sapphire glass on the LCD of an M8, something the Japanese won't come up with in a million years.

[frank]

"Right. Who needs variable magnification finders like those found on 50-year-old Canons? Coughing up for a coupla more bodies is the way to go. You can even pay 1120 Euros for a marginally quieter shutter and sapphire glass on the LCD of an M8, something the Japanese won't come up with in a million years."

 

Bad boy! Do penance for your Leica-blasphemy.

 

;-)

[andrew_sowerby]

The shutter sound issue with ZI cameras is totally overblown, IMO. I have a ZI and an M6TTL.

The shutter is slightly quieter on the M6 (or maybe just lower in pitch), but the ZI shutter

sounds fine.

 

I agree with the original poster: the viewfinder in the ZI is fantastic. 35 and 50 in isolation

and no flare-out (more than I can say for the M6).

[keith_lubow]

Have considered one of these cameras a couple of times. Want to try it first and hear more about it first. Thanks for posting your review.

 

Personally, I think an M2 is more my camera. But I do want to have at least ONE new camera in my life...my closest is a Canon 10D, and I got that used.

 

Keith

[skwp]

I finally caved and bought an M6. I bought it for the legendary reliability because after a

broken ZI, Leica CL, and Minolta CLE, I don't know if I can trust older cameras that no

one can easily repair any more. Even though the ZI's viewfinder is nicer than the M6

(though not by a whole lot), the M6 feels very solid and being all mechanical also

means less electronics to break (only the meter).

 

Don't know if the M7 or M8 finders are any better, but I hope Leica takes a cue from

the ZI's finder in their next camera to make something really clear, huge, and easy to

view even with glasses on.

[skwp]

But I'm still on the lookout for a black ZI body. If that becomes available for a good price I

might snag it and resell the M6. The only thing I like better about the M6 is the shutter and

like someone said it's not _that_ much quieter. I'd rather have a nicer viewfinder on the ZI.