Using flashbulbs on D200

[sean_mcgroty]

I'm trying to sync flashbulbs with my D200. I have the shutter set to 1/30 with an appropriate aperture set

in manual mode, but the D200 won't fire the flashbulb. The holder is connected to the PC socket on the

side. I know the holder is good, having used it on other cameras. The D200's PC socket fires electronic

flashes, so I'm not sure why the camera doesn't fire the flashbulb. It would seem that the D200 has an

ability to sense when something is connected, and it doesn't "see" the flashbulb holder. Any insight?

[Matt Laur]

I just KNOW I'm not the only person wondering one thing: why? I mean, why flashbulbs? Not being snarky, here, just genuinely curious.

[peter_nelson1]

<i>I just KNOW I'm not the only person wondering one thing: why? I mean, why flashbulbs? Not being snarky, here, just genuinely curious.</i> <br><br>

 

That's OK, snarky works for me. Really: why flash<b>bulbs</b>?

[Ian Rance]

Sean,

 

The trigger voltage is low enough, BUT the current will be way too high for your D200 to supply. Let me explain. The D200 uses a small electronic component to fire an electronic flash - the electronic strobes only need the flash contacts to be 'shorted out' to fire the flash (tiny voltage and current), however flashbulbs need voltage (15-22.5 volts typical) AND current, which allows the wire in the bulb to burn out and ignite the primer paste (thus igniting the magnesium wire). Your D200 will not have enough guts to blow that wire - what is needed is a 'flying contact' - literally a dead short created inside the camera with a bit of metal connected to the shutter. Your D200 may even be damaged by shorting out the sync socket with a flashbulb (the D200 will see the flashbulb as a dead short).

 

BTW, I am a great fan of flashbulbs, and use them with my 50's film gear all the time - with great results I may add!

 

Ian

[ronald_moravec1]

Be sure the battey and capacitor are good in the flash.

 

Slow the shutter to 1/8 or 1/15. Bulbs take a while to peak and you want the shutter to still be open. Electronic flash goes instantly.

 

With bulbs there really should be an ignition before the shutter opens so it peaks as the shutter opens. Maybe the slower spead will make up for no bulb sync.

 

Why flash? Because it is a wider spread and gives better pics than some narrow beam cheapie electronic flash. Of course you can buy better electronic ones or use modifiers.

 

Why flash? You have a lot left over. You have the fun of worrying a pocket full will go off from static electricity. And you get to wonder where to put the hot bulb you just used. Most ash trays are gone.

 

So you see there are lots of good reasons.

[Matt Laur]

Ronald: see, I knew someone would have a solid, rational list of good reasons! I should mention that I was still using flashbulbs when I was a little kid, first starting to take pictures - out of necessity, not nostalgia! - with the family's then-current crop of gear. Oh, man, I'm getting old.

[sean_mcgroty]

The answer as to why on the D200 is checking the guide number of the bulb+reflector

combination. IOW, a reusable Polaroid back. Normally I use the flashbulbs on my film

cameras, but I've gotten some unusual results recently and I can't figure out if I've been

misjudging the subject distance or if the system isn't putting out as much light as I think

it is.

 

Ian: I'm not following. Why would the D200 need to supply any power to the holder? Do

you mean the high current supplied by the flashbulb battery through the D200s sync

circuitry can damage the camera?

[Ed_Ingold]

The current needed to fire a flash bulb is only the first issue

 

The big problem is the time it takes a flash bulb to get going - about 20 msec (1/50 sec). In "the day", cameras had an M sync setting, which fired the bulb about 20 msec before the shutter opened. Focal plane shutters would still tend to produce uneven exposure except at very slow speeds. Modern cameras have only "X" sync, which fires when the shutter opens. Consequently the amount of light on the subject is greatly reduced and the problem of uneven exposure amplified unless you use very slow shutter speeds (e.g., <1/25 sec). The exposure is affect by both the aperture and disproportionately by the shutter speed.

 

It's time to get a Rolleiflex or an Hasselblad with C lenses, with M-sync and hard metal contacts ;-)

[ronald_olsen]

I had a Wien voltage protector made for a camera-hotshoe-to-wire-to-flashbulb setup. It wouldn't work. I removed the Wien protector and Voila, fired it perfectly. I used it for about ten flashbulbs before I fried the electronics of the Nikon DSLR. I am older and wiser now, and know that the current is just too much for it to handle. Unless you have bought a 3-year extended warranty for your camera, I would advise against this.

 

Flashbulbs are great for imparting motion to an object and I use them a lot with my Crown Graphic. With an electronic camera, it's open shutter and manually fired bulbs.

[john schroeder]

I've had very good luck using flash bulbs on my D70. Flash bulbs put out a tremendous amount of light allowing you to achieve greater depth of field than if using an electronic flash.<div></div>

[Ian Rance]

"Ian: I'm not following. Why would the D200 need to supply any power to the holder? Do you mean the high current supplied by the flashbulb battery through the D200s sync circuitry can damage the camera?"

 

Sean, it is rather difficult to explain in detail why, but when you fire a flashbulb, the flash sync trigger in the camera is in circuit rather like a light switch in your house, except that the filament of the flashbulb needs enough current to pass through the camera to break it. Some modern cameras may work a bulb gun OK, but they are not designed to. The cameras that were designed to fire flashbulbs had the metal contact to take the 'abuse' of repeatedly breaking the flashbulb filaments. Then again, these cameras did not have rear-curtain sync or other modern nicities we take for granted nowadays.

 

Ian

[ronald_olsen]

"Flashbulbs put out a tremendous amount of light..."

 

John - Not as much as you think. This has been repeated so many times on the internet that it has become accepted without question. In fact, I did some tests last year with a some blue 2B's against a White-lightning X3200 (1320 watt/seconds), and found that the bulb was only 1/6 as powerful as the electronic flash, about 2.5 stops difference. This was using the same reflector for both, and using open shutter for 1 second, i.e. under conditions most favorable to the bulb. At 1/30 of a second or faster, the results would have been even more lopsided.

 

It seems to me that there must be a way to fire a flashbulb using your camera hotshoe that isolates the camera from the large current that floes through the circuit, using a relay. Your car ignition works this way when you start the engine; the large battery surge from the battery to the starter motor doesn't flow through the ignition key, the key only closes a relay circuit (starter solenoid) that controls the larger circuit to the starter. No one on the internet was ever able to tell me how they did it, and after losing the Nikon I described before to electrical damage I stopped pursuing a solution.

[bob_sunley]

To do that, you need a small relay with a 5vdc coil and 5-10 amp contacts, they are readily available, and couple 2032 lithium cells. the cells are wired in series with the relay coil and one wire of a pc cord connects to one coil terminal and the other wire to the battery. The flashbulb gun is connected to the normally open contacts on the relay.

 

It will work, but now you have an even longer delay that the 20ms rise time needed for the bulb to fire.

[ronald_olsen]

Bob, can you provide a photo of your setup ? I went through this at length with Gary at Paramount cords and we were never able to construct anything that worked. In theory, yes, but when it came time to fire the bulb with the camera, it always failed. We were never able to figure out why the Wien unit mentioned in my previous post didn't work. It should've, but it didn't. If I was able to construct something like you have described, I would definitely connect an electrical meter to it while firing a test bulb first before I would trust it on a DSLR.

[kelly_flanigan1]

The unfired #50B flashbulb here has a resistance of 1.2-0.4= 0.8 ohms when measured with a VOM meter; where 0.4 was the lead resistance. Lets say you fire this off with 4 D cells in series connected to a modern camera; do you feel lucky?:)

[ronald_olsen]

You don't even need four D-cells, 2 will do it, only three volts is enough to fire a flashbulb. It's not the voltage that fries the electronics on a DSLR in this case, it's the current (amperage) flow.

[john schroeder]

The output of flash bulbs varies with the flash bulb used of course. The setup I use on my D70 is an antique Leitz Stroboblitz. It works perfectly.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Ronald; here the flashbulb units I have that hold C or D cells dont have a capacitor. The one unit that holds 3 D cells has a screw on tube so it can hold 5 D cells; for more current. These were more common in the speed graphic days; pre alkaline battery days; when photoflash batteries were used. The usage of a greater number of cells was to one had more shots; a greater margin with longer cords; or to get the flash HIGH above the camera too!. One can fire a flashbulb with one fresh 1.5 volt cell too; its just dicey when the battery is not fresh.<BR><BR>Many more modern bulb flash units like the BC flash ones have a 15 volt; 22 1/2 volt; or even a 9 volt battery across a capacitor. Here the battery can have a higher impedance (internal resistance); the capacitor provides the bulk of the current to fire the bulb. This makes a smaller bulb flash unit; that can actually dump more current than the D cell rigs for an instant; since the voltage is higher. <BR><BR>With a 50B one can fire them open flash off the ac 120 volt line ; with about 3 in parallel one often trips the breaker; thus one often placed a 100 watt bulb in series as a current limiter. When a person uses the cameras sync socket and the 120 volt line the contacts usually get messed up.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Using a flashbulb flashunit on a modern dslr is begging for the unit's electronic switch to get fried.