When did Pentax orphan for its DSLRs some earlier lenses ?

[david_smigelskis]

Reading the manuals for the K100D and K10D, it seems that M42 mount and ordinary

K mount lenses are not usable on these cameras. If I remember correctly, when

Pentax first introduced its dSLRs one major marketing emphasis was on the

possible use, with some loss of "features", of the M42 and basic K mount lenses.

 

With what Pentax cameras did an orphaning of these lenses happen?

 

If they did not happen, but are simply not mentioned in the manuals, what are

the limitations of use on the K10D and K100D and newer Pentax cameras?

 

Finally I still have some very good Adaptall 2 mount lenses that work fine on

all Pentaxs and other cameras of the pre DSLR era. Are Tamron mounts available

that will make these lenses partially usable and/or as completely usable as

other DLR lenses on present day DSLRS of whatever brand?

[personalphotos]

All the old lenses are usable but the mount has been updated several times since these lenses were first put on the market. Lens data contacts as well as focus and other information is translated between the camera and lens.

 

With the old lenses none of this is available. You simply shoot in Manual mode and in some cases use stop down metering. The only real issue is that you loose some features (modes) on the camera, The flash P-TTL system does not work and you need to use some Ev compensation with the older glass. The metering just is not as accurate with the new body/old lens combination. The camera is looking for more data to work with.

 

You can use your Adaptall 2 mounts and if you have the AE Adaptall mount and AE lens, then you are in even better shape. These mounts will translate all the exposure information to the body and make things easier. You just have to manually focus the lens.

 

So get a Pentax DSLR and use the lenses. They will do fine wonce you get used to shooting with them.

[paul_noble]

I have a K10D and I have used my old Super-Takumar M42 lenses and a manual 500mm mirror lens with a k-mount. Both work just fine, within the limitations of the lens. I also have an A-series 50mm/f2 lens that I use.

 

The M42 lenses require an adapter. Make sure you get one that fits flush inside the bayonet mount. Many people here recommend using only the genuine Pentax adapter. I have had good luck with a third-party adapter. Some cheap adapters have a large flange the prevents the lens from focusing to infinity. These are the adapters to avoid.

 

When using the M42 lens, I must use aperture priority metering and stop down the lens to the working aperture. I grew up with a Spotmatic, so this doesn't bother me.

 

K-series lenses, as well as the M-series lenses, have no contacts to transmit aperture information to the camera, so they must also be used in stop-down mode. They don't require an adapter.

 

For M42, K-series and M-series lenses, you must set the camera to allow use of the aperture ring. You must also tell the shake reduction system what the focal length is.

 

A-series lenses, as used on the Super Program cameras (and others of that era) work perfectly. The only thing that these lenses lack is autofocus, which they never had, anyway. You don't even need to tell the camera to allow the aperture ring.

 

In short, Pentax still claims that you can use any Pentax lens ever made. I believe them. There are a few third-party k-mount lenses, particularly from Ricoh, that cause problems, but these are relatively rare.

 

By comparison, my brother has a Nikon D200. None of the lenses from his sixties/seventies era Nikon F will even mount on the camera. They can be machined to fit, but that is not necessary with Pentax.

 

Canon's backward compatibility is even worse. They have made major changes to their lens mount twice, I believe. I'm not sure if adapters are even possible.

 

Pentax still has the best backward compatibility in the business.

 

Paul Noble

[from darkness]

Hello David,

 

I am using sevral M42 lenses on my K10D.

A russian Jupiter 2/85, a Schneider Kreutznach "Curtagon" 4/28 and a Yashica 1,4/50.

With all the lenses the camera measures the light correctly (some issues with the Jupiter - needs 1 stop correction in some cases).

The diaphragm and focus must be made manualy.

The rest of my lenses are manual lenses on K mount, with the exception of a Sigma 10-20mm. They all work fine.

(Soligor 3.5/70-210, Panagor macro 2.8/90, Pentacon 2.8/28)

Pictures are sharp and well exposed...

 

I think that Pentax as all the others would like to sell a lot of new lenses, Even if those are crap comparing to the old good lenses.

This is the main reason why they do not write about teh compatibility of the new camera bodies with old lenses.

 

If you want to use your old lenses it would be wise to consider installing a split screen on your camera. It will help you focus manually faster.

With old lenses the camera can assist you by confirming the focus, an this also works fine with all my lenses.

[mark u]

I'm really not sure where you get the idea that M42 and K mount lenses can't be used with the K10D. Of course, lenses that have no autofocus will require manual focus, and lenses that aren't aperture coupled will require use of the aperture ring. However, you will get the benefit of Shake Reduction with almost all of these lenses.

 

Adaptall 2 lenses can be used with Nikon mounts on some Nikon cameras (some have metering and other difficulties), and also via a Nikon to EOS adaptor, on EOS cameras. With the Canons you have to use stop down metering. They can also be adapted similarly to EOS mount via Olympus OM (and may work on current Olympus 4/3rds cameras via an adaptor) or M42. The rare EOS Adaptall mount can still be found, but it is expensive, so it is usual to use another mount and a mount adaptor ring. A number of these adaptations require mechanical stopping down of the lens to shoot.

[DWScott]

The problem is with Pentax's manual writers.

 

A quick read of any Pentax DSLR manual makes you think -- oh, I can only use DA, FA, and F lenses. They put that info right at the front of the manual.

 

Of course, buried in the back of the manual is the information on how to use lenses all the way back to M42 screwmount, with metering and focus confirmation!

 

Pentax should be TRUMPETING this in their manuals and marketing, making FI and aperture ring support the DEFAULT settings on their cameras (not an option which needs to be turned on.)

 

These are standout features, unmatched by Nikon or Canon (until you spend BIG bucks. I don't know about you, but I won't be laying out the cash for a D300 so I can use my old set of lenses...)

 

Dave

[jerry thirsty]

It's unlikely Pentax would trumpet this feature; they want people to buy new lenses, not used ones. Presumably they've done marketing analyses of whether the additional body sales from touting backward compatibility would make up for the lower lens sales, and decided it was more profitable the other way around.

[tibz]

Nikon can't be blamed for not wanting people to buy Pre-AI lenses on ebay to use with their digital SLRs. They simply cripple their cameras so they lose features when working with particularly old lenses. That way they decide to upgrade. There's nothing bad about that.

[michael_kuhne]

Nothing wrong with backward compatibility either. Since Pentax does not have the huge range of lenses in their lineup as Canikon, this is an advantage they can offer.

 

I have some of the last and more advanced AF 35mm film SLR models Pentax made. Unlike the Canikon counterparts, they readily function with old MF K mount lenses. No problems or adjustments necessary. Even the TTL flash works ok. Just snap on the lens, focus and fire away. K, M, A lenses function very well in AV or manual modes. With a DSLR, camera adjustments must first be made and then shooting modes are more restricted, but the lenses are still usable.

 

The backward compatibility does not bite into new Pentax lens sales IMO. There are some customers who own older MF lenses they especially like, and enjoy the compatiblitiy which makes keeping with Pentax more appealing. Also, some customers using a few old MF lenses does not mean there will be no interest in new AF lenses as well.

 

I got rid of several MF lenses and replaced these with AF models. I still have 3 MF lenses I use occasionally, but I now have numerous AF lenses for most of my shooting. Most new buyers have no old lenses.

[paul_noble]

Pentax hasn't exactly trumpeted their backward lens compatibility, but they haven't hidden it either. I have seen a couple of presentations, apparently made by relatively high-ranking people within Pentax USA, and sanctioned by Pentax USA, on YouTube. In these presentations, they proudly point out that the K10D and now the K20D can use, in their words, "any Pentax lens ever made".

 

And no, Nikon can't really be blamed for crippling the ability to use old lenses on modern dslrs. It *IS* smart marketing, in a way. It forces customers to buy new lenses. OTOH, Pentax' strategy is *also* good marketing. It gives owners of older Pentax cameras a good reason to stay within the Pentax family. If I'm going to need to buy all new lenses, I would have no real incentive to stay. I could just as easily go to a competitor.

 

Paul Noble

[mc2imaging]

Funny, I was chatting with a fellow at the Faire today who was a Pentax chooter and

worked at Wolfe Camera. He had thought about purchasing a Pentax DSLR but couldn't get

any of his old Pentax glass to work with any of the display bodies at the store. He said he

even called Pentax support and they had no answer for him, so he bought a Nikon.

 

In reality, nobody reads the manual cover to cover. Rather than blaming the manual

writers, why doesn't the camera do something like display a message that explains why it

won't take a picture when you push the button (i.e. reminds you that non-A lenses are

disallowed - please change the custom menu setting to continue, or that your shutter

speed is too fast for the attached flash - please use a slower shutter speed or set the flash

to high speed sync, etc...).

[monochromekx]

<i>Also, some customers using a few old MF lenses does not mean there will be no interest in new AF lenses as well.</i><p>I haven't bought anything <i>new</i> made by Pentax since 1984 (I still HAVE my ME Super) until this month - a K10D that I intended to use with my K lenses.<p>I've since sold some lenses and an Oly E20n to buy the FA 50mm f/1.4 and FA 35mm f/2.<p>I believe their marketing strategy works - after all, I bought the K10D, didn't I?<p><i>In reality, nobody reads the manual cover to cover.</i><p>Uh, I did. Then I went to the appendix and set all the functions the way I wanted them. Then I made profile cards to help with the lens/program combinations.<p>But I'm a geek - when software came with a box of books I read those manuals cover-to-cover, too.

[michael_kuhne]

The ME Super is a beautiful little gem of a camera. My first Pentax, new in 1982. I still take out a MF body once in a while, Super Program.

 

You will enjoy your FA 50mm and FA 35mm lenses on your K10D, Paul!

[shots worth sharing]

You ARE a geek, Paul, and--since I'm not one by any stretch--I'm glad you're around! I'd be interested in seeing an example of one of your "profile cards."

 

But even this non-geek newbie knew about backwards compatibility when I bought my k100d a year ago. It doesn't mean a whole lot to me in practice since I came unencumbered by legacy equipment and manual focusing has always made me break out in a cold sweat (more so as my eyes age) but it bespoke a commitment to customers and previous product lines which impressed me.

[dogbert]

It seems funny by I use most of my Pentax glass on a Canon DSLR these day via an ebay adapter. It works fine with no metering issues at all. I even get focus confirmation.

[john_pelton]

I have several Pentax K-Mount lenses from 1980 (as well as Sears KS-2 lenses with the Pentax K-Mount). I'd like to buy a Pentax digital SLR body which can use these lenses without problems. Can you recommend the right one? I've researched K-Mount lenses at wikipedia.com and found an excellent article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentax_K_mount) on the subject, but had trouble actually figuring out what camera bodies will work. Photo store techs tell me that some of the lenses will get stuck on some of the new cameras, but the article conveys that not all of the bodies have this problem. Please help me to find the right camera body.

[personalphotos]

John any of the DSLR bodies will work on your old lenses as already described above. All you do is go in the menu and "Allow Aperture ring". Then any lens from the old M42 screwmounts to today's new ones will work just fine.

 

As others have said, functions will be limited depending on the type of lens. Remember that many of these lenses were designed before these new cameras were even thought of. So they will not have all the electrical contacts to be as 100% functional as a new DA lens. You will have to use manual settings with certain lenses.

 

So get whichever Pentax DSLR you like and you'll be fine. The issue of a lens jamming is on certain Ricoh lenses that have a program pin on the mount. That will lock into the AF drive slot on a Pentax DSLR body and is very tough to get dislodged. If you don't have any of these lenses, there is no issue. Also a very few Vivitar and a couple other brands of lens have a flange around the aperture coupling lever that is too large for the mount and hits the AF drive housing. These can be modified if you have one.

 

Maybe you should list your lenses and if any has an issue we can post back.

[miserere_mei]

<rant>

 

Someone mentioned Pentax doing the numbers and figuring that new lenses make more money than people buying new bodies to use with old lenses. This is correct, I'm sure. Let's not forget that while Pentax has not changed the essence of the K mount in decades, it *has* produced two crippled versions. Crippling is a market strategy to get people to upgrade their lenses (but if someone can show me why the crippled mounts were a technical necessity, I'd like to learn about it).

 

Case in point: With the appearance of digital SLRs, Pentax had the chance to uncripple the most annoying aspect of K and M lenses, but they didn't. The same way the SR cameras ask you for a focal length when you mount a non-F/FA/DA lens, they could also ask for minimum and maximum apertures when you mount a non-A lens, thus allowing the use of all shooting modes. Instead, they add the little green button for quirky stop-down metering and make us shoot in M mode only (or Av if the lens is wide open). Sure, you can use older lenses, but Pentax isn't making it easy for us.

 

I think they are correct in not making a big deal about being able to use any Pentax lens ever made, because it would be highly hypocritical of them given they could digitally uncripple many lenses, but choose not to.

 

</rant>

[andrewg_ny]

Mis, good point. Somewhat harder to justify this strategy considering that people are more likely to replace their digital bodies at more frequently at greater cost as well as the technology is less mature and upgrades can net real image quality & performance improvements. I also don't think it would have been a bad idea to de-cripple the mount for at least some of their bodies either. Or discontinue TTL flash support.

[personalphotos]

Ah TTL support. A subject that is near and dear. The very reason I'll never sell my *istD and will probably buy another someday as a backup. I have a pair of AF400T's (quantum batteries an bag full of stuff to add to them) and they are great units. The *istD work very well with these units. Yeah I can use them on the K10D but not if speed is an issue. P-TTL just doesn't work as well IMO.