Wide angle in the 50's

[bcostin]

I have an M42 Rodenstock-Eurygon 30/2.8. I'm not sure exactly when it was made, but I know it was also available in Exakta mount at the time.

[patrick j dempsey]

The early wide lenses were symmetrical non-retrofocus, style lenses. Many of the Leica and Contax wide lenses came within millimeters of touching the shutter curtains. They usually sat deeper inside the camera body than they stuck out. I think I remember seeing a 19mm lens like this for the Canon rangefinder cameras, but that might have been early 1960s.

[mskovacs]

35/2.8 postwar Biogon for Contax RF was excellent. My 35/2.5 Nikkor for Nikon RF was even better.

 

21/4.5 Biogon is also a stunner.

[mskovacs]

A few from the Nikkor WC 35/2.5 (Nikon S, Fuji Provia 100F)

 

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[Matthew Currie]

I'm finally back home, and thankfully, my Leica did not disappear in my absence, nor its minty little Rodenstock Heligon:<div></div>

[mohir_ali]

'...24x36mm frame was twice a movie frame...'

 

WRONG

 

The diag. for a 18x24 frame is 30mm, 43mm for 24x36.

[Troll]

What actually started the WA stampede, of course, was the Zeiss f:4.5/21mm Biogon for the Contax IIa (covered 90 degrees).<P>The early extreme WA lenses for SLRs were not retrofocus, requiring that they be used with the mirror up and an auxillary finder.

[classcamera]

Here is what I have for the pre-war Contax line of lenses:

 

28mm f:8 Tessar;

35mm f:4.5 Orthometar;

35mm f:2.8 Biogon (that is good and fast, even by todays standards).

40mm f:2 Biotar;

42.5mm f:2 Biotar (I will happily trade my Corvette for one of these).

The last two of these lenses were really normal for the format, but as the 50 had become something of a standard, most people still considered them wide.

 

In the Post War era, there are several changes to the line-up:

21mm f:4 Biogon;

25mm f:4 Topogon;

35mm f:3.5 Planar(I have only seen one of these on ebay in 10 years!)

35mm f:2.8 Biometar;

35mm f:2.8 Biogon;

 

For Leica the lenses the wides in a SM lens is 21mm with the honors going to the Super Angulon, and in M mount the widest is the 15mm hologon.

 

Several things to consider with the wide lenses for range finder cameras, and SLRs. The Range finder lenses may drop off a bit at the corners (bad with wide open much better stopped down), but they do not distort like the Retro focus designs. What I mean buy that is, that the SLR wides will tend to bend the vertical lines at the edges in kind of a spherical way. This is not present in the range finder lenses as seen above with the Nikor. And with the 12mm and 15mm recently made by Cosina, they actually cover the format well, unlike the funky Fish-eye lenses for the SLR. Also, keep in mind that 21mm may not seem that wide form an angular perspective, however in terms of depth of focus, the lens seems very short (especially for a time when press photos are routinely shot with a 127mm on a Speed Graphic. To get the same angle on a 4x5 you would need an 85mm lens, and at its smallest aperture, it still has perhaps depth of field from 6 feet to infinity.

 

In closing, the reason that wide angle lenses were uncommon in the 1950's is purely economic, in many cases the extra lens would double the cost of the camera kit! Zeiss claimed that in the entire time they made the Contax camera, that they never made money on the cameras, and just broke even on the entire line with the lens sales.

Like Henry Ford said: "I would give the car away, if I could be the exclusive maker of spare parts."

[Ian Rance]

Thank you for the interesting comments.

 

I have done a small study on my own 1955 35mm SLR lens, and have found something unusual. The standard 50mm lens is a symmetrical non-retrofocus design, but by replacing the front part of the lens with a 35mm f5.6 component I can have a wide angle but non-retrofocus lens for SLR use.

 

If wide angle lenses can be made to a non-retrofocus design yet still fit in front of the mirror, I wonder why this was not persued?

 

Ian, UK

[dan_fromm2]

Ian, the 35/5.6 Retina Curtagon's back focus is longer than its focal length. Otherwise the mirror wouldn't clear the rear element. The same is true of the convertible lens.

 

Why do you insist that neither is retrofocus? If they aren't retrofocus, how can such short lenses be used on a 35 mm SLR?

[Ian Rance]

Dan,

 

The reason I thought this is that the 50mm f2 fitted to the reflex is the same lens as fitted to the 1930's-1950's Kodak Retina folding (non-SLR) cameras which did not need to be retrofocus (I measured with a vernier caliper to the rear cell on my IIIc). If the lens in the camera body remains - just the front elements replaced - then that made me think that the lens was still not retrofocus. I will be honest and say that I am still learning about all this, so I am probably wrong in my workings.

 

Ian, UK

[dan_fromm2]

Ian, the rear cell old 50/2 Retina Xenon wasn't designed to work as the rear cell of a wide angle (Retina Curtar) or telephoto (Retina Longar) lens. Trade names persist, designs change.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

[TomHildreth]

Ian, "the 50mm was what everyone used". This is not correct regarding SLR designs. The 50mm as an industry standard came along in the 1970s, replacing 55mm and 58mm in many product lines.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Tom; In Kine Exakta I slr the 1930's had a 50mm F2.8 TESSAR; The 1950's and 1960's Exakta slr had the 50mm tessar again; the Pancolar f2; the cheapie Domplan triplet that was 50mm too. The REASON that newer designs of slrs like the Nikon F of 1959 had a 5.8cm lens in F1.4 was the mirror was bigger than exakta's. Later about 1962 the 50mm F1.4 nikon cam out for Nikon F.

[kelly_flanigan1]

<a href="http://www.ghiweb.com/exakta/earliest_kines.htm"><b>The earliest 35mm SLR camera known to exist.</b></a><BR><BR>@FIN

[dan_fromm2]

Tom, to expand on what Kelly wrote, modern 50 mm lenses for 35 mm (and digital imitations of 35 mm) SLRs are all slightly retrofocus. The 55 mm and 58 mm lenses sold with early Minolta, Nikon, and Topcon SLRs were all of normal construction, i.e., neither telephoto nor retrofocus.