grover_larkins2 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Hi folks, Just returned from Costa Rica and was very disappointed by the new, un-published, un-printed rule that flash photography is no longer permitted inside the Monteverde Cloud Forest Reserve. Enforcement on point and shoot cameras was as good as nil, on pro-level shoe mount flashes they were very insistent. When I checked the printed rules I was informed that the rules had just changed and that they were still using the old rule sheets and maps. There were no signs, and nothing but an overofficious office manager at the entrance station to give you the rules, but only after you had purchased entry and started to use a flash.... Since the elimination of flash photography in the reserve limits you to exposures using a calendar (1/4 sec at ISO 400 is not unusual) the reserve is no longer a destination for wildlife photography of any kind. Macro photography using a flash is likewise prohibited as was flash photography in the parking lot.... If you want to see & photograph a Resplendent Quetzal I strongly urge you to alter your plans AWAY from the double-secret-probation unpublished flash rules at Monteverde and head on south of San Jose to San Gerado de Dota off of route 2 in the Cerro del Muerte mountains. San Greado de Dota is about 70 km or 2 hours south of San Jose.... This was my 3rd trip to Monteverde and I'll not be back until this stupid rule is changed. Perhaps if no one goes there there will be change.... Grover Larkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrossi Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 "This was my 3rd trip to Monteverde and I'll not be back until this stupid rule is changed. Perhaps if no one goes there there will be change.... " - I don't know the first thing about this reserve, but could this rule possibly be for the sake of wildlife and avoiding stressing them? I'd hate to see them cave in to please photographers, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_greenberg Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 When I went to the Monteverde area last summer I didn't take any bird photos inside the reserve and yet I came back with many fine bird images from my trip. A local guide showed me and my son all of the area's birds, including several quetzals, while staying OUTSIDE of the reserve. The local guides keep pretty good track of where these birds are being seen, so I would continue to recommend the Monteverde *area* for bird photographers. Also, the hummingbird garden that is just outside the reserve is operated by the reserve itself, so I would imagine it, too, remains a prime photography destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_greenberg Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Whoops! I meant that the hummingbird garden is NOT operated by the reserve itself, so it has its own rules. The hummingbirds at those feeders certainly don't seem to be bothered by photographers' flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stemked Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hi Grover. Thank you for your timely warning. I am headed to Costa Rica, including Monteverde with a College Class this May. Unfortunately our schedule is such that I cannot control where we will be going but the flash looks like it is best to leave at home. It is their country, their park, and their rules; I personally am just a visitor. Costa Rica has gotten pretty strict about their natural resources, for instance don't even think about picking up an empty seashell. They see this as their way to protect their natural resources, well, so be it. In general these rules are about the same regarding photography flash on the Galapagos islands. Whether or not these rules are based on science or just over-reacting knee-jerk reactions is not clear. While I will be a tad disappointed that I won't come away with as many nice images I'm really looking forward to the experience of adding some cool birds (especially the Quetzal) and other vertebrates to my life list. C'est la vie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg s Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 "1/4 sec at ISO 400" << 1/16 sec at ISO 1600 I have been to Costa Rica 4 times and stopped using flash years ago in favor of a tripod with a cable release. Here's a shot taken at 1/3 sec in Costa Rica... http://www.pbase.com/coraltown/image/74842696 Regarding Monte Verde... their rules are their rules and thet are way ahead of most tropical countries in terms of eco-system preservation. Just be glad there is a reserve there. Also, sometimes it's good to put the camera down. But no matter what, with todays DSLRs and excellent noise performance at high ISO... lack of flash is not a showstopper except for tru nighttime photography. Cheers, -Greg- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awahlster Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Greg not everyone uses todays new toys. Some of us old farts still like film and own non IS lenses. And film has limitations that digital is able to over come by post processing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg s Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hi Mark! The above photo was taken at 700mm with a non-stabilized lens. As for film photography in Monte Verde, I won't say that it is totally a thing of the past but would generally be much more the exception than the rule. And a DSLR at this point in time is not so much of a 'new toy'. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grover_larkins2 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Folks, If the rules were there to "protect" I'd be really happy to oblige. Unfortunately, the use of flash on birds has just about zero impact on birds... particularly when it is being done in a parking lot filled with tourists all "flashing madly away" with point and shoot cameras and trying to get as close as possible to the animal with a digimatic camera.... What really rubbed me th wrong way was that there was zero effort put in to keep the digimatic crowd from flashing the birds and that there were no published rules, not even a hand lettered sign! Greg S -- I also use a cable release, IS and all of that.... Try photographing a Quetzal under the canopy against a cloudy-bright sky 5-6 f stops brighter than the bird.... Blow out the background and hope for a miracle! As for the Quetzal (and many other birds) -- their colors are often not solely pigment related but are also diffraction based, hence they require directed lighting on them from the same side as being photographed. This is also true of hummingbirds, funny that there are no ill effects of flash photogrpahy in the hummingbird gallery where the flash intinsities are 4 times greater than you can hope to achieve at 25 meters in the reserve..... Perhaps I'll upload some example shots.... Finally, Matt, I've been doing wildlife and bird photography for well in excess of 20 years both as a hobby and professionally. I did a study on the effects of flash photography on birds back about 15 years ago and put it out on the web. Remember -- birds can and often do look directly at the sun with no ill effects and that the flash's illumination is typically well below that of a sunny f16 exposure. At ISO 200 and f16 the shutter is going to be 1/200 sec and a typical flash's duration at FULL power on a handle mount unit is between 1/500 and 1/1000 of a sec. and the exposure is about f5.6 to f8 at the distances we use. Basically peak illumination is about 1/4 to 1/2 that of if the bird was standing in the midday sun on a cloudless day.... The bottom line is that flash photography really does not bother the birds -- getting right up on top of them with a P&S does, however tend to disturb them significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grover_larkins2 Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Here is a Quetzal taken outside the reserve with fill flash.... Lots of digimatics taking pics from 10 feet below him -- I was 40-50 feet away with a 500 f4 EF-L IS and a 580 + Fresnel -- exposure about f8 at 1/250 sec. for a -1 stop at ISO 400 fill exposure.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grover_larkins2 Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 Here is an identical male quetzal shot -- one with flash at 1/250 sec and one w/o at 1/10 sec, both are at f4 and both are within seconds of one another. Took 4 frames w/flash and 50 w/o -- got 5 sharp shots (4 w/flash and this one w/o). BTW -- they are constructing a nest, not on eggs or with chicks yet, and within 7 meters of the Sendero Chomogo at the entrance. Worked on the nest for about 20 minutes -- we left first.... Loud noise disturbed them more than the flash... they stopped all action when the over officious guy came up and proclaimed that flash photography was "forbidden" (I got aggravated later when I most carefully checked all the rules and determined that it was "unpublished in any manner" rules or signage etc...).<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grover_larkins2 Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 Here is the one with flash....<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg s Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Hi Grover, Here's some pics taken during last trip to Costa Rica. Male quetzal w/o flash... http://www.pbase.com/coraltown/image/74842686 Female quetzal w/o flash... http://www.pbase.com/coraltown/image/74842690 I just prefer not using flash unless the bird is small and hopping around.. had to use flash on this Honeycreeper to freeze the motion. Also prefer not to photograph backlit subjects... will tend to wait for better light conditions or angle on the subject. http://www.pbase.com/coraltown/image/74842695 Just different styles I suppose. Cheers, -Greg- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg s Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 FWIW, and I only mean this in a purely constructive sense, for the no-flash shots I wouldn't shoot at f/4 (stop down to f/5.6), bump ISO up for faster shutter, don't underexpose and double check White Balance settings. When I go to places like Costa Rica I have field tested my no-flash and flash techniques to the nth degreee... knowing that for the majority of my shots I will avoid flash whenever possible. White-Neck Jacobin (Panama) w/o flash. For me this is the best way to capture the natural colors of the subject. http://www.pbase.com/coraltown/image/90462325 -Greg- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brody_philip Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I was there on the 26th of this February. It is well known that the birds will come in the morning into the wild avocado tree in the parking lot when the fruit is ripe and there was quite a crowd waiting for them when they appeared between 6:15 and 7:30. I think the birds were disturbed by the camera flash and the oohs and ahs from the crowd. The birds would flit about and Quetzals like other trogons will generally sit quietly undisturbed. No one tried to control the crowd or the photography in any way at the time.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimitoucan Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Grover, Perhaps you should contact the appropriate staff at Monteverde and explain your study on flash and bird photography. Your effort may make a difference. I do understand their concerns. Not long ago there were few photographers with long lenses and flash extenders as well as the large amount of tourists wanting to see the Quetzal. I am sure they are concerned about the well being of the Quetzal, however, they may have just gotten some tourists telling them that those powerful flashes are upsetting the birds and have not done any research on their own. You can see the extended flash going off on the bird and I have seen them flinch when it does, so maybe they have a point. As far as not having written rules, well, you should know Costa Rica if you've been there before. As far as San Geraldo goes, it used to be a well kept secret, but it too will soon be overrun by photogs and tourists disturbing the Quetzals, and then the rules! If anyone here plans to visit, please use good judgement. Don't flash evey shot. Use it sparingly. Wait for the perfect shot before turning on the flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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