k_montgomery Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I am frustrated with my xti as well. I shoot my son's baseball games & many are at night. I cannot use a flash, thats not an option at these games. I used to use an Olympus, I would simply turn off the flash with a push of a button and adjust the settings to get the best possible image. I am pretty good with Photoshop, so I spend some time on the back end working on the images. Since my purpose is to put low res images on a web site, I used to get a few passable images from night games, Now, with the xti, I can't get much of anything & I am thinking i may have to sell it & get a camera that will allow me to turn the flash off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freelance Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 At 3200 the noise is horrible in the 40D. It is not worth it to change to 40D just for this reason. I used once the 3200 and promised not to do it again unless I have to take a picture of an accident or something worse I need as a proof. I also have an XTi.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freelance Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Your problems are not the cameras, are the lenses. With a 50mm 1.8 (less than 90 bucks), you'll improve your XTi's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phule Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 [[Now, with the xti, I can't get much of anything & I am thinking i may have to sell it & get a camera that will allow me to turn the flash off.]] Stop using the "scene" modes and start using "P" with ISO 1600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photo_dark Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I second (er... tenth?) the 50 1.8 suggestion. I have a 17-40L and a 70-200L and I revert to the $90 50mm more often than not. I also own a rebel XT and a 40D. Don't waste your money on something that won't actually better the quality of your low light shots. Get the 50mm 1.8 and in the words of ole yakim... happy shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bueh Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Uh, guys, Tram already has the EF 50mm f/1.8... so a fast lens is not really her problem it seems. It is the poor lighting, so I recommend flash use. I hope she posts some pictures so we can see what frustrates her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryantan Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Unless one lives in a cave, I imagine f/1.8 @ ISO 1600 is plenty fast enough. You just need to learn how to use it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad_mcilvain Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 My point (if there was one) was to gently (not very) suggest that we all tend to try solving photo problems with massive outlays of cash. Canon loves us for that! Tram, I know several excellent pro photographers that got started by "taking shots of their kids". One lady does the best wedding and family portraits I've ever seen, another fellow teaches Macro classes. It's just a learning curve. Your frustration is not camera or lens. It's photographing motion. The only practical way to do that is supplemental lighting. If you are not on a student budget (cardboard,foil etc.) you need a ($200)tilt/swivel flash unit. If you are only familiar with the xti built in flash, then of course you hate it. Overexposed foreground, underexposed background with harsh shadows, YUK! A tilt flash pointed at the ceiling (bounce) will eliminate those problems. Add an off camera flash cord (canon $50)and bracket ($50) to raise the flash unit above the camera to prevent red eye and you can recoup costs doing weddings. Just a learning curve! When the kids are a little older and can be posed, use the 50mm 1.8 and sun streaming in the window for artistic feel. But for candid at play shots use your zoom and your new bounce flash to freeze motion. With a little practice you will add Wow to all of your photos. You will also find the flash will really help with sunny outdoor shots as well (fill flash) to reduce shadows under subjects eyes, especially when they wear hats. What could be easier? About 300 bucks and no cardboard/foil construction projects needed! And you can save the stun gun for when you need to settle a dispute with the hubby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g dan mitchell Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Brad is more or less on the right track here. The XTi is perfectly capable of taking photo in low light. (And you CAN turn off the built-in flash by the way - check your manual - it is easy.) You should be able to hand hold indoor shots in typical home lighting with a lens like the 50mm f/1.8 at one of the higher ISO settings. You shouldn't even have to use the highest ISO. Possible reasons for the problems (and "possible" is the best we can do without seeing examples) are not holding the camera steady enough, not using the largest reasonable aperture on the lens, kids moving too fast, etc. True, the built-in flash does not produce very flattering light - but you can take kid pictures with it. If you are going for something more "artistic" and don't want to go with natural indoor light (or light from a nearby window) that suggestion of getting a basic flash that will let you tilt up and use ceiling bounce flash is a great one. In all likelihood that will produce results you'll be happy with. Dan (Who wonders - as he writes - why we go on at length when the OP never returns to follow up... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regina_ripley Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 This thread has been so helpful for me so I love all the responses! I am taking notes. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tram_luu Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 OMG! I love this forum, that's probably why I spend hours scanning this forum rather than actually doing work! Well, that and shopping online. Anyway, I love all the advise and I will keep my Xti (even though someone has already offered me money for it) and I will buy an external flash (430EX Speedlite or 220EX Speedlite?) and probably a new lens. I've invested quite a lot into my Xti so I guess I should just keep the darn thing. Now.....I will reread all the comments and do some research. And just to assure all of you guys out there, I live in sunny San Diego County, so my kids are outside all the time. If you've never been here, the weather is awesome most of the year. But the natural lighting isn't fantastic in their play area. Thanks again and I guess I need to get back to my real job...corporate finance and banking. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad_mcilvain Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Tram, the 430ex would be a far better choice. It's head tilts and swivels wheras the 220ex does not. Plus it is more powerful and can do a much better job of getting proper exsposure of background, thus avoiding the "deer in headlights" look. And the 220ex WILL give you red eye problems (even with xti's red eye reduction on) unless you put a diffuser on it. A diffuser is cheap, easy to use, should eliminate red eye effect and harsh shadows, but will cut some light, making the background under-exposed. Now from my previous posts you know I don't want anyone wasting money on stuff that won't help (the sheet of foam core will work way better than everyone seems to think) so I am afraid that if you get too small a flash you'll be more than frustrated (psycho?) and have to upgrade to the 430ex anyway. To be fair to the 220ex though, it is an excellent tool for Macro photography, has an autofocus assist beam to keep your lens from searching for focus points and like myself, cheap. For your purpose though, I feel the tilt feature of the 430ex (or even non canon flash such as Sigma) is crucial for success. Now to make up for my earlier tongue in cheek suggestions (Regina, be sure to use duct tape that is the same color as the kids shoes and fully cover the bricks) I offer these low budget tips. If you are using built in flash and have problems with red eye (demon baby) get an assistant to shine a small flashlight on the subjects face for a minute before and during flash. By going a minute first the child will get used to it and quit squinting, the penlight will dilate the pupils so the camera flash won't reflct from blood vessels at the back of the eye. The flash unit will wash out the penlights feeble beam so you won't have any color temperture conflict. Better would be the off camera flash cord and flash relocation bracket I mentioned earlier, but hey, a 100 bucks would buy a lot of pampers! Finally, when you go to toys-r-us to buy a toy, get camera ready before you or kids unwrap it. Sit them down in your best lit area. For that one moment they should be semi-motionless in anticipation. As they first open and check out a new item they are rendered temporarily vulnerable to photo-op! That LOOK is as endearing as it is short lived. Whether taking pictures of kids, flowers or elephants, pre-planning and preparation will pay off better than any wonderous equipment. And perhaps even keep you from stepping in something nasty. Elephants can be messy! I am certain that you will do well with your family photos because you are trying very hard to improve. My best advice (saved for last!) is to take a photography class at your local community college. San Diego has many to choose from. Most beginning classes are filled with folks like yourself that were "frustrated" over family photo results. You will gain abilities, confidence, a better eye for composition and perhaps a great thirst for artistic expression through photography. You could get a big telephoto and take surfboarding shots or maybe fall in love with desert landscapes through a wide angle lens, or.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g dan mitchell Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 In the interest of good forum citizenship, I want to apologize for my somewhat snotty and just plain wrong comment about posters who don't return to read replies to their posts. Clearly Tram Luu has responded in this thread, and my comment was out of line. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_montgomery Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Man, this is a great forum. You guys are a little intense, but hey, thats alright. The information and ideas are great. I ordered the lens & look forward to trying it out. I set the camera on 'P' and ramped the ISO up to 1600, went out & shot some pictures and the results look much better. Thanks to all for taking the time to respond, I have gotten more help from one post on this forum than I have from talking with any number of people around here. I still can't figure out how to disable the flash in all modes, but I'll keep trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad_mcilvain Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Hey K, I am proud of you for not giving up on the Canon. What you are up to is the toughest of all camera uses. Except for shark portraits but we can tackle that later >=v^"> With basketball, football and even gymnastics (very challenging) you can at least position yourself fairly close. But night baseball games are extra tough because some refs are pretty picky about who gets to be on the field. And don't even get me started on the parents... If your flash pops at the wrong moment, even accidently, you could have four coaches and twenty parents after you with bats. And that's the folks from your team! The opponents may just drop a noose on and hang ya from the backstop! Now I'll tell you how to prevent this, but you gotta keep this on the down low cuz. Some people may think my low budget ideas are stupid (I prefer "flaky as a ten dollar biscuit" myself) but darn it, I'm trying to save lives here! So what you do is put duct tape (oh yeah!) on the front of the pop up flash so it can't deploy. I'm just kidding about the duct tape. Use electricians tape! It won't show on the camera and does not leave a sticky residue like duct tape. If you want to go ultra high tech, try to find some gaffers tape. It's the best thing to keep in your camera bag at all times. Besides spare batteries anyway. I promise this is a perfect fix. It will NOT harm your gear. The manual even tells us that if the flash pops up automatically and you don't want it to flash, just push it down. We are just taking it a step further. Are you with me? Do you feel it? Harmony at the ballpark! Life is good. However, your homework assignment is to read in the manual about aperture priority mode. When you can comfortably operate in the "creative zone" you'll be set to rule the known universe. Well at least take off the tape;-) Oh! I almost forgot. This forum is not really very "intense". The folks over at the medium format forum are way intense. They eat digital junk and spit pixels! Also, they may just posess the most combined wisdom in the photography world. And I do not wish to anger them:-> Now I have to get back to the shark picture thread... I'll fill the tub with water to see how well duct tape sticks when wet... better add 20 lbs. of salt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photo_dark Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 lol... good thread. I second the other people here (and myself again) invest in glass before bodies. And get a 430EX before a 220EX... If i'm not mistaken, the 220 is not really any better than the pop up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_montgomery Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Thanks again to all those (even Brad) who have responded, its been informative and entertaining. Duct tape, NyQuil, external flash units? a guy could have a pretty fun weekend in Vegas with all that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad_mcilvain Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hey K, if you are going to vegas forget the flash. Slide film and a tripod for nighttime neon shots works best. Digital with ISO dialed way up for lots of noise is great for seedy daytime effect. Likewise lose the NyQuil. The casinos don't stock it at their bars AND you'll wake up Tuesday afternoon with a lady you don't even want to know and a fresh $20,000 credit card debt. Irish coffee would be a better choice. Of course duct tape is always good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tram_luu Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Dan, No worries. You used the :-) so I knew your comment was in good fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tram_luu Posted April 1, 2008 Author Share Posted April 1, 2008 What do you guys think of the Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_g10 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 17-40mm ? Fantastic lens!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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