Focusing on the Moon

[cmitchell]

Ever since the eclipse I've been trying to get a good shot of the moon and I

just can't get it. It's either too fuzzy or too bright. I saw some of the great

photos posted here that had details of the moon surface and I'm wondering what

settings I need to use to get a properly focused and exposed picture of the

moon. I'm using a Canon Digital Rebel XTi with a Quantaray (yeah, I know it's a

cheap lens but I'm a beginner with the lens thing) 55-200mm/f4-22 set at 1/250

f5.6 ISO 200 set at full zoom. This setting was the best picture but still, I

didn't get any detail of the moon surface like some of the pics I saw here. I

also have the Canon 18-55mm kit lens and a Canon 50mm/1.4. Any advice on lens

and settings will be greatly appreciated.<div></div>

[Matt Laur]

That looks like motion blur, to me. Are you using a very solid tripod? Weighted down? Try using the self-timer, to minimize the vibration you're introducing when you press the shutter release with your finger.

[gordonjb]

Everything Matt said plus try looking up your mirror before pushing the cable release.

[lex_jenkins]

Atmospheric haze is a big problem. Your shots may be in focus, but will appear hazy due to atmospheric problems. I had trouble focusing on the moon the other night because of haze. I was using the same equipment - body, lens, tripod - I've used on clear nights to get excellent detail in full moon pix, so I know it's not the equipment or technique. When it's hazy it's difficult even to know whether the lens is focused properly. Just keep trying and hope for better conditions.

[frank uhlig]

The sunny rule applies with f/11 for the moon. So at 200 ISO, the exposure should be around f/11 and 1/200 of a sec. Your shown pic looks a bit overexposed which would also follow from the sunny f/11 rule here. So, retry at 200 ISO, 1/250 sec and f/8 on a sturdy tripod, mirror locked up if possible, cable release and do wipe out all the atmospheric haze between you and the moon, too, if you can ...

[evan_goulet]

<I>The sunny rule applies with f/11 for the moon</i><P>I have heard it called the "Loony Eleven Rule" and I find it works pretty well as a guideline. You probably want to bracket on the exposure, too.<P>While this does look an awful lot like motion blur here, how are you focusing? Manual focus would probably be the best option.

[mr. sullen]

Details in the Details.

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/6985396

[colin carron]

Christine, the first thing is to use a tripod, as big and heavy as possible. The next is to take the shot using either a cable release or the shutter self-timer. These are all to reduce camera shake.

 

Then pick the clearest shot you get with the moon as high as possible in the sky. A shallow angle means the light from the moon has to come through more of the atmosphere. Try not to shoot above buildings either as heat rises from buildings and makes the air turbulent.

 

Your 200 mm lens is a bit marginal for the moon and you really need a longer focal length but if that is the longest you have then 200mm it is.

 

Exposure varies with the phase a bit but for a full or gibbous moon then using a Sunny 11 rule you need 1/200 at f11 which would translate to about 1/1000 at f5.6 (the moon is a bright object as it is in full sunlight). I would select f5.6 as you lens will probably be significantly sharper a stop down from its maximum. As advised above bracket the exposure. Sometimes the darker exposures work best. For crescent phases you may need a bit more exposure.

 

One of the tricky things is to get the focus exactly right. A eyepiece magnifier helps here but if you don't have one then check your focus in daylight against the furthest awaty terrestrial thing you can find (a couple of miles?).

 

Good luck!

[colin carron]

Nearly full....<div></div>

[geoff_foale]

Your photo is probably the best you will get with your equipment. For really good detail you will need an astronomical lens, which comes at an astronomical price. However, I agree with the Loony 11 guide line and the need for really clear air.

 

As an alternative to fine detail I often shoot for an atmospheric appearance to the moon. What I mean is the strange ring of light that appears around the moon when stormy weather is approaching. For this I use F11, ISO 400 often 800, spot meter on the lightest point then + or - exposure compensation as required. And, of course, a tripod etc.

 

When it works I get some detail of the moon surface with thin cloud passing in front which gives that spine tingling ghostly moon. I normally use around 300mm but when there is a wide halo 200mm is about right.

[bobatkins]

While all of the above advice is good, the moon is an inheretly low contrast subject. You will need to work on the image to enhance contrast and sharpness if you want shots that look like the better images you will see here. Shoot RAW and use DPP for conversion. Tweak exposure and contrast for the best look.

 

Your lens isn't the best in the world, but at 200mm and f8 (don't shoot wide open) you should get an OK image. Keep trying.<div></div>

[cmitchell]

Thanks everyone for some great advice. I'll keep trying. I was using a tripod but did notice slight camera movement when depressing the button no matter how much I tried not to. I'l definitely try the self timer, that sounds like a great idea since I don't have a cable release. I haven't tried RAW yet because I don't really know what to do with RAW. I'll have to read up about that. I am definitely shooting over buildings , from my bedroom window in a city so atmosphere is probably a problem. Great tips everyone and much to try out here. Thanks so much.

[cmitchell]

Oh yeah, one more thing. Gordon, what does it mean to "try looking up your mirror" before pressing the shutter release? How do I look up my mirror?

[colin carron]

Shooting in RAW helps retain as much of the original capture as possible. Jpeg format loses information when you maipulate it but RAW files are 'developed using software to give the lossless TIFF format.

 

Well never mind the theory, here's how you do it. I assume you have Zoombrowser EX with your Rebel but maybe not DPP. In that case take the shots with your camera set to RAW then upload as usual. Then open them in ZoombrowserEX. Select your image for processing then goto Tools > RAW Image task. At this point you can adjust exposure, white balance etc then save the image as a TIFF.

 

If you have DPP you will see a wider range of tools available. Zoombrowser (and possibly DPP too) come with your Rebel software and you should find them under Canon Utilities.

 

However even without RAW I think using the self timer and reducing the exposure time should help a lot.

[marc_bergman1]

Christine,

<p>

You have gotten some good advice here. I found that there is some detail to be found with post-processing.

<p><div></div>

[franklin_h1]

I believe Gordon meant locking up the mirror before tripping the shutter to reduce vibrations, if your camera has that capability. Keep shooting

[alex_lofquist]

Try to keep your exposures under 1/100 sec. The moon "moves" its own diameter in about 4 minutes so any longer exposure will fesult in increased blur. As the moon has a low albido (reflectance), the "sunny 16" rule will yield a rather dark grey moon. Try "sunny 11" for a full moon. A gibbous moon will give better detail, but at a lower brightness.

[cabbiinc]

To lock up the mirror on the Canon Rebel XTi (400D) you will need to be in one of the creative modes.

Press Menu> go to last menus (tools 2)> go to Custom Functions> Custom Function 07 needs to be set to 1. Now every time you hit the shutter the mirror flips up, you then need to hit the shutter again to snap the pic. If you also activate the timed feature it locks the mirror up 2 seconds before it snaps the pic. It still works best on a tripod with a shutter release cable.

[milton-chris]

When I shot the eclipse the other night, I was surprised at the settings that allowed me to get good shots, with clarity and contrast. 40D, Tamron 200-500 at 500, f6 to f16, ISO 100 for the pre-eclipse moon, and 1/125. I got to those settings by changing f-stop and increasing shutter speed until things started to look right.

 

Also, used the cable release and used my body to block the breeze. I know that I could have gotten even better pictures if my ballhead would have locked down properly. Ballhead didn't lock properly because the 40D with battery grip and camera aimed substantially upwards is much heavier than the amount of weight of the lens on the opposite side of the tripod collar.

 

My shots are at http://picasaweb.google.com/chrisnewell4444

 

HTH

[cmitchell]

Thanks so much everyone for the advice. I'm excited to try this stuff out and I'll let you know how I make out. Tonight is cloudy so I'll have to wait for another day...

[machts gut]

How is the "melon 8 rule" working if I live in Europe? Is it the same there?

[pldove]

A gotcha in astrophotography is that you don't have any depth of field to play with - like photographing a flat paper document. The entire scene is at one distance, so it's either in focus or out. Stopping the lens down reduces the out of focus blur size, but it won't compensate for being out of focus until you've stopped the lens down so far that you can't tell focus blur from the diffraction blur that increases as you stop down. You just have a fuzzy image. With a 3-D scene, if you are anywhere near the intended focus, <i>something</i> will be crisp.

<p>

You can still use this to your advantage, though: with auto-aperture lenses, you focus with the lens wide open, so any OOF blur is bigger and easier to see than after the camera stops the lens down.

<p>

You can make a focusing aid from a replacement lens cap or cardboard or anything that you can fit on the front of the lens. Make 2 round holes opposite each other, as far out from the center as you can, not more than 1/4 of the diameter. You can add a 3rd smaller hole to make a triangle. Focus on a bright star. This gives you a multiple image when it's out of focus. With 3 holes, the triangular pattern flips, so it can be easier to see when you reach focus.

<p>

Focusing by eye tells you when your lens is focused on the viewfinder. An additional problem could be that the sensor is a tiny bit off of the same focus. If so, you can experiment with a series of shots with a tiny focus change each time to see if you can find a "focus compensation".