Psychology of Pentax users

[johnmarsden]

Have noticed that the Pentax forum often hosts questions and stuff that is only

vaguely linked to Pentax, and more of a general nature, yet still receive

considered polite responses.

 

Is the pentax forum more friendly than the other forums because there are fewer

of us using Pentax so we are nice to anyone with a similar interest.

 

OR do nice people use Pentax cameras ?

 

;-}

[frygge]

Nice cameras for nice people. And Consequently, nice forums for nice people who use nice cameras :-)

[a few images]

You certainly don't follow mainstream if you're shooting with a Pentax. It's a good thing. Reasonable, rationale and intelligent folks become Pentaxians. That's why folks here don't get bent over questions that don't immediately fall under the Pentax topic. Though, we all assume that whatever you're asking about, you're asking about it with a Pentax close by.

[shots worth sharing]

JOHN YOU DIMWIT, WHAT KIND OF FREAKIN' IDIOT QUESTION IS THAT?!

(Sorry--I couldn't resist. I hope I didn't offend. Really ;>)

[renatoa]

Dave, are you a Nikanon system owner too ? ;))

 

John, probably because Pentax is a company who still care about photographers and not consumer electronics...

[wpoupore]

Recently I've shared some of the more entertaining posts in this forum with my girlfriend,

and generally speaking she thinks everyone here is just a little nuts. In a good way.

[steven_moseley1]

Hi,

 

The reason Pentax users are so nice is because so many of them are old men who still remember the time when manners mattered...and they do not have the same 'hang ups' that the better off old men who buy Leica's have..

 

cheers Steve.M.

[mc2imaging]

That is kinda funny. I don't do much outside of this forum on p.net, but I have posted to the

medium format forum as well, and there is a page full of rules you get (some in bold, red,

and all caps) before you get to the box to post. It does look pretty intimidating.

 

My wife spends some time in the Weddings forum too, which is pretty laid back as well.

 

I've peeked in on another forum where a guy was getting insulted for considering a

super-zoom to pair up with his kit-zoom...

[eoin_kelly]

Hi steve,

i'm not an old man but i do consider manners important. Pentax makes good value cameras which are bought by people with a bit of perspective on things, hence the more relaxed attitude, i think anyway. - first post done!

[sonbou_abc]

Very, very, very interesting.

Thank you John for writing this observation.

[acrummey]

OK here are my reasons:

 

1- As stated earlier, Pentax is more oriented to those who enjoy photography.

 

2- I chose Pentax a long time ago

 

3- "Pentaxians" are not as conscious of photography as "jewelry", if you like to drop names you choose C***n or sometimes N***n. Therefore there are fewer arguments over trivialities such as which lens is "perceived" as better.

 

4- Value for money is probably higher on the scale here, as a result there is far less pressure to always own the most expensive glass (although the best Pentax glass is expensive, the f4 zooms are quite reasonable and all of the "budget" lenses are of higher than average quality)

 

5- We are nice people anyway;-)

 

Ira

[alex_m.1]

@Renato:

 

If Pentax had cared so much about photographers they would have kept

that nice 95% pentaprism viewfinder on their low-end models instead

of switching to 85% pentamirror, they would have placed more

controls on the bodies (the Konica-Minolta way) and, on their

high-ens semi-pro DLSRs, they would have even gone to 100% coverage

in the viewfinder. Let's hope they won't kill the focus ring on

their cheap lenses. They also don't innovate *that* much since, for

instance, the SR idea for APS-C sensors is taken from Konica-Minolta

(I was really sad the day when they went out of this business) and

the dust removal idea is taken from Olympus (a wonderful company but

with horrible prices).

 

@All:

 

What I find incredible is the high activity of posters on this

Pentax forum, compared to the other manufacturers' forums.

 

What I dislike, on the other hand, is that Pentaxians love their

favorite company so much, that they forget to criticize it when

Pentax deserves this. No other forum is filled with so many praises

for its manufacturer. No other forum is filled with so many praises

for some line of prime lenses (the Limiteds, in our case) - as if

the engineers from Canon/Nikon/KM/Oly were all idiots, not having

graduated from the same universities as the Pentax ones. No other

forum is filled with so many praises for the SR technology, as if it

didn't exist for the other manufacturers as well (and with the same

results). No other forum is filled with so many praises for

backwards compatibility, as if I were interested in using lenses

produced 30 years ago. No other forum is filled with so many praises

with regard to some optical coating technology, as if Pentax were

the first to develop it (they were not - it was developed by Zeiss,

in 1935). No other forum is filled with so many praises with regard

to weather sealing of the bodies, even though the vast majority of

3rd-party and Pentax lenses are not water-proof (and even if they

were, shooting under rain or sand storm quickly covers the lens with

water/dust, quickly degrading image quality). This need to

overpraise one's objects of choice might be considered by a

psychotherapist a sign of lack of confidence, of insecurity, a sort

of need to permanently reassure oneself. (What I find the most

embarrasing and ridiculous are the conversion stories - "Why I

decided to switch to Pentax" and the like, very much like "Why I

decided to switch to Linux" from 10 years ago. And then you have the

veterans congratulating the new convert, as if he were now admitted

into some secret order of the illuminated photographers, or

something...)

 

Now, I *insist*: please do not get me wrong. I have nothing against

Pentax and the users of their products. After all, I too am using a

Pentax camera. But I find quite irritating when I see Pentax

photographers wanting to be perceived as "connaisseurs", as *the*

truly refined ones (in opposition, to the Canon/Nikon/Sony masses,

who are probably supposed to be just plain indiscriminating and

ignorant photographic proletarians...).

 

I don't think that Pentax people are nicer, ore else they wouldn't

call Sony "everybody's whore", as they did a few weeks ago (btw., I

think that Sony produced some amazing engineering marvels in the

electronics business sofar). I also don't think that Canon people,

for instance, are evilish or ignorant. I've seen some amazing

artwork done with cheap Digital Rebels and kit lenses, and I've also

seen (on the PDML mailing list and even in this forum) plain crap

done by Pentax users proud of their expensive K10D-s and Limited

lenses with their "acclaimed", "unique" super- mega- otho- para-

ultra- multi coating.

 

So no, John, I don't think that Pentaxians are special, in the same

way that I don't think Pentax is special. I just think they think

too good of themselves and their equipment, thus forgetting,

unfortunately, that "there's a whole world outhere"...

[david richhart]

Do you feel better now Alex?

[renatoa]

> No other forum is filled with so many praises ...

 

You haven't experienced yet the ambient of a Sigma users forum devending their Foveon ;))

[mawz]

@Alex: The pentamirror finder is 95% as well, it's .85x magnification. And that's also allowed Pentax to sell DSLR's for low, low prices. And note it's far, far less of a comprimise than the finders in the first three DRebels, the D100/D70(s)/D50 or any 4/3rds camera other than the E-3. Konica Minolta and Sony did the same with the 5D/A100/A200/A300/A350, for much the same reason. try and remember the DS/DS2 sold for more than the K10D did when new.

 

K/M's button-ridiculous interface is over-rated. Sony's Fn-menu based update with the A700 is a massive improvement over the 7D's dual-dial interface that resulted in one dial being effectively nothing more than a physical custom function (choosing 1/2 or 1/3 EV stops for exposure), and yet it's oddly similar to the Pentax UI (Sony's is a bit better on the A700 IMHO, Pentax's is simpler and better than the A200 version). I've owned the Maxxum 7 which originated this interface and pretty much all of its innovations were in the AF control interface (DMF and the AF/MF button under the thumb), otherwise the interface was near-identical in actual use to that used on the K10D since the bloody dials are useless in actual shooting.

 

Also Pentax developed their SR implementation before Minolta announced theirs. AS and SR were in development simultaneously, Konica Minolta simply got their simpler and less elegant version to market first.

[ankit_mohan1]

Alex, amazing post. Thanks for that. Being a new Pentax user, that confirms what I have seen so far. I've said a few times before that Nikon/Canon is kind of like windows (widespread use, not necessarily the best, but no one ever gets fired for choosing one of these); Minolta/Sony is like Apple (amazing user interface and care about details); Pentax is like Linux (tonnes of undocumented features, crazy following in spite of obvious problems).

 

Coming back to the issue of politeness, I would say the Sony/Minolta forums are leap and bounds better than pentax forums that I have seen. In particular, dyxum.com is just the best photography forum around in my opinion. Very nice and helpful folks, many whom have switched to pentax/canon/nikon, but keep coming back to discuss sony cameras and comment on the photos.

 

You are also right about Pentax users not criticizing Pentax when they do something bad/wrong nearly as much as some of the other brands do. I guess it is the "linux-attitude" showing up here again! I know that Sony would be blasted away for some of the problems Pentax users just live with as a matter of fact (issues with the 16-50/2.8, focusing issues with the 21 ltd, etc.)

[a few images]

Alex seems like a CaNikonian in disguise here.. Trying to poo up the forum thread ;)

[ankit_mohan1]

Adam, what do you mean by "simpler and less elegant version" of AS by Minolta? In my experience the SSS on the A700 is at least 1-2 f-stops better than what the K10D gives. Also, they released it at least 1-2 years before Pentax.

[renatoa]

Maybe they are nice because nobody wrote such things about K20D before issuing ;))

 

http://yourphotoarchive.com/laugh.htm

[miserere_mei]

I agree with many of the things Alex said, although I think Pentax users are as critical of our brand as any other users. Have you been to PentaxForums.com? Lots of "shit lists" there for Pentax to read (and I really hope they would).

 

One thing that I think is special about our forum is how excited we get about using a 30 year-old lens that we found on eBay for $25. Personally, I love the feel of the old primes (even if they're not Pentax branded), and I feel a lot more in control of my photos when I can focus manually. Maybe that's why I like to drive stick and detest automatic cars. But I know I'm not alone as many on here are hanging on to their ancient lenses still. Maybe we're a nostalgic lot.

 

I may sound aloof, but I do believe that, **on average**, Pentax users are more knowledgeable about photography equipment. This is simply because of the fact that Canikon is thrust in your face and have huge brand recognition, while Pentax doesn't. It's much, much harder for someone to "accidentally" buy a Pentax camera because they didn't know any better; if someone has no clue about photography and they want a DSLR, they'll go to a store to get informed and will walk out with a Nikanon 99% of the time.

 

Does any of this stuff make us "nicer"? Probably not.

 

Maybe age does have something to do with it; male teenagers and early-twentyers are more likely to get into e-fights than 30 and 40 year olds. How old is our youngest male member?

[miserere_mei]

Renato, that link you gave is hilarious LOL!

[acrummey]

Alex, you are not wrong but there are some points worthy of note:

 

1- Except in upper level models all manufacturers tend to use menu driver interfaces on their cameras. The Olympus E3 mentioned has been criticised for having a rather awkward implementation of some features through buttons that are not well placed. Although they are making some strides in standardization, Canon tends to have three very difference interfaces, the ***D (Rebel) series have a system that is very different from the **D mid range models (and the 5D) ehich are again very different from the 1D models (makes back up cameras a hassle unless they are from the same series). Nikon seems to have a better handle on user interface (most models are consistent), and SONY have menu driven entry level models like most others. The Pentax K10D, K20D are comperable to mid range models elsewhere with prism finders and lots of dedicated controls, the K100D, K200D are neither significantly better, nor significantly worse than the entry level models from other manufacturers.

 

2- Pentax has some features that are available at a different price point than they are from other manufacturers. Why praise weather sealing? Because it is only available on costlier models from most other manufacturers. As for lenses, the other manufacturers who offer weather sealed bodies also do not weather seal all of their lenses.

 

3- Praise for limited lenses... OK, do they praise L-series glass on Canon forums? All manufacturers have at least some "premium" lenses, and users tend to praise these for their mechanical and/or optical properties. Nothing strange about Pentax here.

 

4- My comment about Pentax owners being "nicer" was a joke, but I do note that there are often more pointless arguments on some of the other forums.

 

5- I have no cross to bear, axe to grind nor other cliche to support. I would be just as happy with Nikon or Olympus or Sony or even Canon (although I do not like the ergonomics of their entry level models and cannot afford the 40D level). I chose Pentax because I was happy with the Pentax film cameras I had owned for a very long time and Minolta (my other camera of choice) was in its death throes when I was ready to buy (I still have some nice Minolta glass so Sony is not off of my list). Pentax is affordable, well made and (since I own a *istDS) has a nice viewfinder. I can experiment with cheap older lenses before investing in new lenses which is sometimes a plus.

 

I find that Pentax forums do sometimes seem a little overly optimistic but... there are also people who feel that they have to straighten us out with a reality check every now and then. I don't need that. I know the pluses of my cameras and I am also well aware of the drawbacks, the fact that I do not choose to dwell on those drawbacks can be seen as delusional, or can be seen as a healthy understanding that complaining about that which I have little control over is a waste of energy that could be used on taking pictures.

 

Ira

[acrummey]

Sorry about the typos I was in a hurry! (note embarrassment here)

[14mm 2.8l]

Eos shooters enjoy the benefits of 30 year old lenses too.

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00OVzj

 

Personally I'd never hack away the K Mount aperture levers, as shown, and I've seen this occur with the 200mm 2.5 SMC too. A $400+ lens destroyed value wise instead of just buying a brand new eos 200mm 2.8 for $650 seems odd to me. I mean if the Eos 200mm 2.8 cost $1,100 maybe it would make sense to cut up a classic 200mm 2.5 SMC? Had this fellow only had a 1.6 aps-c canon dslr then no K Mount lens destruction would have been necessary. 1.3x and full frame eos dslrs require the permanent alteration of K Mount lenses.

 

Anyways, I'm content with pentax, Now.

 

I've run out of pressing gripes since I added a couple brand new eos lenses:

 

16-35mm 2.8L II and a 70-200mm 2.8L IS.

 

Canon had a sweet annual money off w/ no forms required again this year I decided to build up & complete my eos kit for upcoming 5D purchase after April 19th 2008, when the current printer rebate bundle expires and 5D takes another predictable price drop, hopefully to $1,800.

 

Anyways, The wife took some stunning full moon shots setting over the rocky mountains this AM with her Samsung K Mount DSLR. 9 for 9 keepers and without inbody antishake: 9 of 9 spot on shots with 50mm 2.8 macro and 80-320 FA, both manual focus and autofocus.

 

Lindy

[xpiotiavos]

It's been said many times on this forum, but Pentax is a fairly specific system. For fine art photography on the street, Pentax shines (just ask Godfrey). For budget-minded people wanting to shot in difficult/rainy/dusty conditions, Pentax is by far the best option (just ask Justin).

 

And I DO think, as Miserere said, that Pentax shooters are generally more knowledgeable about cameras (if not about photography in general) than users from other systems. That's not to say that, just because we use pentax, we're automatically more intellegent or automatically better at photography.

 

Most of the people on this board strike me as the kind of folks who carefully research and think about a product before spending money on it. We were that way before we chose Pentax. We have specific needs and (most of us) have very limited budgets, and Pentax is the best system for us.

 

There are plenty of people who think the same way and choose Canon or Nikon for the same reasons. And there's plenty of times I've heard people on this board recommend other systems for people with needs that Pentax can't meet. (It'd be hard to be a bird photographer with Pentax's system).

 

But, I think, due to Pentax's overall lack of marketing (compared to the bid names, at least), and the fact that they're a comparatively small player in the market, there are a lot fewer people who walk into a camera store not knowing what they want or what they want to do with it, and walk out holding a Pentax.

 

As to us being nicer, I think it's mainly because there are far fewer of us on here than on the Canikon forums. Justin, Godfrey, Renato, Rose, Hin, Javier, MM, MM, and MM (and half a dozen others) are on here so much that we've gotten to know each other. You tend to be nicer to people you know.

 

SHUN THE OUTSIDERS! SHUN!! ;)