Pentax DSLR marketing- again!

[michael_kuhne]

I checked B&H and some others just now. The new K200D is due in this month- at

$720. The left over K10D still in stock at $650! Beach has the K10D still in

at $609!

 

The K20D is not due in until aproximately April, coming in at $1,300. The K10D

should be out of stock by then. Fine. That will work.

 

Problem now is this- I was amazed to see NO K100D super in stock, and not back-

ordered. As we know, the Super just came in a few months ago at about $430,

and the K100D had dropped to $370, and selling like hotcakes. Its appeal as a

well-made full-featured model with SR, at a price lower than the competition is

really what got Pentax on a roll, built upon the similar virtues of quality/

low price of the *ist DS/DL.

 

So right now, what does a shopper and potential Pentaxian have to buy? A left

over K10D- period. Within days they'll have the option of paying $720 for a

K200D (very nice camera) or going for a 10MP Canon XTi at $520, or 10MP Nikon

D40x at $535. Nikon's new D60 will soon be out at $630. So with the

disappearance of the K100D, the Pentax price attraction has also vanished. And

they were still selling well. In stock when I looked last week, gone now. Big

mistake, Pentax, unless intending to drop the K200D price by a lot, and

soon!

[mountainvisions]

Well look at it like this.

 

A leftover K10D for $609 is probably the best deal on a camera out there right now.

 

And clearing old stock is a good thing in terms of opening up inventory on shelves.

 

If I was in the market right now. I'd buy a leftover K10D, even if I wanted the K20D and sit back and see if the K20D drops. If it hangs on at $1300, I'd wait for the K30D, and put the $700 into an interest bearing account, t-bills, or let it ride on the S&P. Eitherway when the K30D comes out you'll be set, and typically the every other product release is a full upgrade/redesign. I'd imagine the K30D with a complete redesign is going to sell for about $1300-1700 since it will be matched to compete against the D300/40D/E3s of the world.

 

Well, thats my rationalization and my 2 cents.

[michael_kuhne]

Well, Justin, you think like someone of in depth experience, which you are. But marketing has to attract new customers too. Of course a left over K10D is the best deal out there right now, for those having $600+ to spend. But soon over. So what is a soccor mom/dad, or newbe (potential serious photographer) to do... with a low budget for venturing out of their P/S model and into the world of a DSLR? Will it be a Canon, Nikon, Pentax, or Sony?

 

The rise of the Pentax DSLR in the marketplace has developed because of the low price factor, and what features and performance that low price will buy.

[personalphotos]

You make good points both but I agree with Michael's thought that the K100D Super should stay for the year till at least Christmas. Then you have a well featured $4-500 model with the 2 new step up models. This would secure those 2 new price points for awhile and make them more profitable, at least in the short term. We all want cheaper costing gear, but we also want Pentax to remain viable as well. They start discounting like crazy on the new stuff, then it doesn't help them in the development of lenses etc.

 

For the new buyer moving from a P&S with no legacy glass to consider, this isn't going to be very attractive. C&N looks like the cheap way to start out.

 

Tough thing is, that once someone buys 2-3-4 lenses in a given mount, there has to be a very, very good reason to switch. You've most likely lost that customer for a long time to come.

[michael_kuhne]

BTW, it may very well turn out that aside from higher FPS, the K20D will outperform even the very fine Nikon D300. Being a 15 MP camera, the K20D to a K30D may turn out to be an evolution instead of redesign. Maybe a new grip to boost FPS, who knows? The 15MP should be good for a couple of years.

[mountainvisions]

Oh I wasn't disagreeing. You know the EVOLT sells for $299 at Beach?

 

Definitely pentax NEEDS a sub $600 SLR in the lineup. But I think if I had to choose between leaving the K10D as the last model standing or the K100D Super, I'd opt for the K10D. The reason people with nearly $600 to spend will swing that route over the Rebel or D80. And those IMO are the people who might buy a few extra lenses. That is the advanced enthusiast, semipro, or pro.

 

Many people with the rebel and D40/50 (soccer moms, which the D40 was specifically designed for) never buy more than a kit tele zoom. So you don't get as much after market sales on the true entry level cameras.

 

But I do agree with what peter is saying (and mike as well although I assume I misread his original post) if you leave the K100D in the lineup you don't have to discount new models off the bat to compete.

 

I can see the logic in that. My only question is, are the K200D and K20D priced to high to compete anyway? If I didn't have any lenses, I'd have to take a really really hard look at the superior E3 over the K20D. Whereas, when the K10D came out, it already was superior to the E1 and it was also cheaper than used E1s were selling for.

 

Plus, realistically, is a K200D a better camera than a K10D? I'm doubtful, and it's not that much smaller. So if someone asked me today should I drop $720 on a K200D or $609 on a K10D, I'd laugh and ask them what they thought after considering it for a little while.

[michael_kuhne]

The $609 is not a "real" price. It is a closeout price. The K10D cannot be kept in the lineup. The K10D is a $800-$900 camera, and a bargain at that price. The K20D probably will drift down into the $1,000-$1,100 range anyway.

 

The bottom rung, and its price, is a very important factor for incoming business. I don't agree that the entry level buyer is generally a stagnant market. Many newbes who have no intentions other than a kit lens, wind up taking a deeper interest and getting better glass.

[michael_kuhne]

Oh, and I am primarily addressing this bottom rung situation, but Justin, you are being focussed mainly in the high-end area. I think Pentax should have a good sub- $500 model, as they have had.

 

Back to the high-end, my impression is the Olympus E3 is not quite up to the K10D, let alone the K20D. It has an edge in a 1/250 sec sync, and a bit higher FPS, 5 vs. 3. The flash sync is too close to make much difference, indeed. And it sells for $1,700 at 10 MP. POP Photo found its noise to be fine in RAW, but not good beyond 800 ISO for JPEG. And those complaining of low lens selection for Pentax would not be fishing in good waters with the Olympus.

[mountainvisions]

Really the lens selection of Oly is the nail on the head. It's true, the Oly lenses are nice, and the new 14-50 2.0 (or something like that) I think is the fastest normal zoom every produced but it's $2000. it better for darn good though for $2k. But almost all Oly 4/3 lenses seem to be at the upper tier of pricing.

 

I agree, for lenses, Pentax buyers have it way better than Oly. More old selection, more backwards compatible, and generally better value on the new stuff, considering the innovative and quality build and optics.

 

I disagree about the E3 though. 1/250th is a big difference since 1/250th is often barely enough for strobed applications but 1/180th simply isn't fast enough. I'd give a portion of my liver for 1/250th on the K10D. and another portion for 5fps (bearing in mind the liver regerates, not like I'm giving up a kidney or a lung).

 

the build on the E3 is superior too, and 3fps vs. 5fps is a big difference, basically 2x as many images per second.

 

Also, the AF on the E3 is supposedly the fastest AF on any camera including the 1D/D3 series by Canikon.

 

The SR is also better (at least according to Godfrey who has used it).

 

the only reason I am big on Oly is because I nearly quit Pentax for an E1, luckily the K10D was rumored and then announced before I pulled the trigger. But the OM cameras were always great, and really Oly has always been more closely built and designed like Pentax than Canon, or Nikon. I'm glad the K10D was released when it was, as I'd probably be regretting my choice.

 

However, the way Oly has approached this is IMO where I assumed Pentax (and where it seems Pentax has) approached it. Concede the 1D/D3 buyers to Canikon but battle for the 40D/D300 buyers which is most likely a much larger market that includes pros, prosumers, hobbyist and even soccer moms and dads. You'd be surprised how many soccer moms and dads tote D200s around! I think this is a brilliant strategy.

 

So with that in mind, I think pentax is now battling Oly more so than Canikon. And looking at how the EVOLT base model is going for $299 (perhaps that is a clearance price) with live view and dust removal, I think they have a formidable lineup.

[michael_kuhne]

Justin, as to the high-end E3 or D300, if I had to have 4 or more FPS and 1/250 sec sync, and willing to part with $1,700 to get it, I'd take the Nikon without hesitation. There happens to be a test review of both in Feb POP Photo. They tend to be forgiving and positive when running equipment tests, and are so here.

 

Their findings are that the claimed 5 stop SR performance pans out to 2-1/2 to 3 stops. AF speed is neck & neck with the D300 (Sony slightly ahead), but falls down in low light. The D300 is steller. The E3 VF is sub par in this class. The D300 is steller. The E3 has serious noise issues with JPEG above ISO 800 (and when POP says so, it definitely is substantial). The D300 is steller. I read a recent article explaining that practically all sports photo journalists, who would likely be interested in the higher FPS and 1/250 sec sync, shoot JPEGS, and fire them right off en mass to their magazine or news publishers without even looking through them. The publishers sort and select, then rush images to print. Little or no time for touchups or alterations. So the JPEG performance is important to many, and should not fall short at this price range, for sure. Ditto with the VF.

 

At $1,800 I find the D300 to be far more attractive than the E3, just for my own needs, and since I no longer see the D-H series offered by Nikon, it looks like the D3 and D300 will fill the bill for the journalists. I've been going over the D300 a bit with my old Nikon shooting friend.

 

So, at the high end, I hope Pentax will wise up and boost the FPS and sync speed a bit in the K30D. You've turned in some pretty terrific sports shots with your K10D as it is, but I know you would like those upgrades. In every other aspect, the K20D appears to be very competitive, as the K10D was with the D200.

 

Back at the bottom rung, I hope they wise up and continue the K100D for a few months until the K200D can be reduced below $500.

[mountainvisions]

Not really 100% true about the photogs using JPEG. It depends on the application but most photos aren't edited by the photographer for sports and daily editorial use. They are typically sent back to the editors who do all the post processing. This keeps the photographers in the field where they are useful. Whether they use JPEG or RAW is up to each receiving editor.

 

Thats not always the case though, as a matter of fact many AP journalist do the basic edits of all their own work in the field on laptops. To the degree outlined by the AP and Rueters (sharpening, levels, WB, etc.), I'm sure in that case shooting RAW or JPEG is up to the photographer. The fact that many photojournalist do their own edits is why Reuters had to lay out new guidelines as to what was acceptable. If they didn't edit their own work, this wouldn't have been needed. The problem was without guidelines things like dogding and burning, and editing out balls people started to occur.

 

If you were reading the Super Bowl thing in Popphoto they explained that process pretty well, although the super bowl isn't the norm for photo processing. But the photographers never saw their work, it was sent to photo editors to be worked on basically from home. And when you consider the 20,000 images had to be sorted and edited it makes sense to do it that way.

 

BTW, I want one of those Windows micro computers. Amazing!! And for me the perfect bridge between a full laptop and a pocket PC. I hate lugging a laptop, but a pocket PC doesn't always get the job done.

 

What you forget about the E1 is that it was the only sub $5000 weather sealed body when it came out. That's taken for granted now with the D200 being weather sealed and now the D300. For a while the E-1 was the only game in town.

 

The DH series is gone for now, and rightfully so, at the time it made sense but now I believe the D3 does everything the D2HS did and probably better. However, they are coming out with a D3X and a D3(something) so I'm guessing either of those might actually replace the H series, as I don't think nikon wants to leave that hole either (the difference between the top end pro and the D300).

 

For me, I don't know if a D2HS is better or worse than a D300. Keep in mind the D300 doesn't have the powerful D2H in body AF motor, or many of the other features, although I haven't looked closely at either. It's always a list of pros and cons that makes the final choice clear. It will be at least 6 months before I go down that road. But I'm thinking the D2HS is still superior to the D300. If it wasn't you'd see the market flooded with them, and honestly the price of D2H and D2Hs hasn't moved since the D300/D3 came out.

[shots worth sharing]

I offer myself as a poster child (or, maybe, "poster old fart") for Michael's basic point. A year ago, I was considering up-grading to dslr and it was the entry-level value of the k100d that drew me toward Pentax. Now, here I am with the k100d, a k10d, the 43 & 77mm primes and a jones for the 50-135mm PLUS a son with a k10d, the 18-50mm and a 50mm f1.4 and an even stronger interest in the 50-135.

 

An (always open) big front door on "+/- $500 Avenue" has to be an essential component of the Pentax marketing strategy.

[glyn r]

I am about to ditch my Oly system for a new Pentax system. I am tired of the lens prices and limitations in the E-system. Oly kept me in line with new innovations, Dust removal, Live view, IS etc unfortunately I now find the limitation at the wide angle end is forcing me to change. Question is do I buy the now great value K10 or wait a while for the K20?

[shots worth sharing]

Ooooh, that IS a tough question Glyn! There's price vs new features plus the instant gratification factor. I'd drive myself crazy over that one (and probably go for the instant gratification disguised as frugality.)

[dan bachmann]

I agree that dropping the K100D (Super) is something Pentax should not have done or drop the K200D to fill that void. If I were to go for a newer Pentax, I'd be looking at the K20D or the K100D Super. The 6MP CCD and 14MP CMOS both yield a cleaner image than the 10MP CCD so that is a key reason why I've not considered the K10D or K200D. To many, this won't be such an issue though.