Hasselblad 6x6 - got everything but the body

[andy_piper2]

Ran across a deal on 2 recent A12 backs and 2 lenses: 180 CF and 50 CF FLE.

 

But the dealer had no bodies, so I need to pick up a box to go in between the backs and the lenses.

 

8^)

 

What with all the "C"s and "M"s and "X"s and "i"s and "W"s and "01"s and "03"s and "05"s, I could use some

input on picking the most reasonable cube for my purposes. (I do have some experience with the system)

 

Flash, metering, motor are not important at all, but I gather the 180 may benefit from something with the

gliding mirror for the fullest view? If so, what is the most "basic" version that has that feature? A good

modern screen (or at least the capability to accept them) is also a significant factor.

 

Any factors to consider if I may someday want a digital back? Connectivity differences?

 

Also, but of far less urgency, I may eventually be looking for one lens to fill in the gap of 50mm-180mm,

and I guess the rundown on the roughly normal lenses would be:

 

80 f/2.8 for speed, 100 f/3.5 for better image quality at wider apertures, 120 for astounding closeup

quality but weaker at infinity?

[q.g._de_bakker]

Andy,<br><br><a href="http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/HS/HSTable.aspx" target="_blank">Here's a concise run down of all V-System models</a>.<br><br>"C" stand for Central shutter, a.k.a. leaf shutter.<br>"M" stands for Modiefied, indicating a 2nd generation of the model. In the 5"00"-series, it indicates a user replaceable focussing screen. In the 501 models, a larger mirror. In the 2000-series a shutter curtain protection feature.<br>"X" means the camera has a flash sensor inside, that hooks up to a number of flash units, allowing TTL OTF flash control.<br>"i" stands for improved, and distinguishes the 503 CXi as a 503 CX that will accept the Winder CW.<br>"W" stands for Winder CW, indicating this body will accept this add-on winder.<br>"01" is used to indicate a basic model, similar to the 500 C/M (for the difference between the 501 C and 501 CM, see under "M").

<br>"03" stands for the third generation. The first are the original 500 C and 500 EL cameras. The second generation were the 500 C/M and 500 EL/M cameras, with user changeable focussing screens. The "3" generation got brihter focussing screens (the Acute Matte screens) and a new internal anti-reflection caoting, made form a material called Palpas.<br>"05" is only used for the 905 SWC, the successor version of the 903 SWC given a redesigned Biogon lens, and the 205 TCC/FCC, a focal plane shutter Hasselblad with built-in spot meter and automatic exposure system.<br>You have not mentioned a few other letters and numbers, so i'll skip those. ;-)<br><br>The most basic model offering the larger Sliding Mirror is the 501 CM. The only other non-EL 500-series model that does is the 503 CW (but that one has TTL OTF flash and will accept the Winder CW).<br><br>All (!) 500-series Hasselblad models will accept digital backs, and all will do so equally well.<br><br>The 120 mm is great also at infinity, but too long to fill the gap nicely.<br>So - in my opinion - is the 100 mm. It is better than the 80 mm, yes. But at infinity and used wide open. Else the difference is negligible.

[q.g._de_bakker]

"T" stands for typo, which i again managed to produce in numbers.

[terry_dent1]

The most basic unit with the gliding mirror is the 501CM. It came with a superior screen also (if it wasn't swaped out by the previous owner). These can be had for $500-650 usually. You might also want to consider the older 500ELX. This is a motorized unit with a larger mirror from the 80's I believe. These can be had for $275-400. It also has ttl flash metering. It may need a screen upgrade though. Either will take a digital back. For an in between lens I would look for the 100mm. It is a great performer.

[andy_piper2]

Terrific! Thanks.

 

To add a bit more to the equation, as I've been doing my own research, I note that the

newer cameras have

 

a) added a bigger, more comfortable-looking shutter button, but also

 

b) eliminated the white/red dot indicating whether the body is "cocked" or not.

(something I find useful as a semi-newbie trying to keep track of all the connections and

interlocks)

 

Let's see if I can feed this back straight:

 

500C/M - older body, no gliding mirror, smaller button, but DOES have body indicator

 

501C - super-simple, no glide, big shutter button, no indicator

 

501CM - gliding mirror, big button, no indicator

 

503CW - gliding mirror, big button, no indicator (adds metering)

 

If that list is correct, then the final questions would be

 

a) any opinions about the revised shutter button? Is it actually more comfortable and

smoother-operating, as it appears, compared to the skinnier original button?

 

b) How critical is the mirror cutoff with the 180 lens (I doubt I'll ever go longer) and

without the gliding mirror system. Minor irritation? Major obstacle to composition?

 

I think I'm zeroing in on either a 501CM, or a 500C/M, depending on those answers and

how I ultimately feel about the indicator dot.

[andy_piper2]

Guess I should add that I'm aware a 500C/M may not include the acute matte screen - but I

assume that I can add one eventually?

[paul_gardener]

The 500 C/M is the safest and most economical way to get started.

Try to get a later body that has the stainless steel plate with lugs for the film back in stead of the two separate brass lugs.

 

Also worth considering are the 2000 bodies.

These were the first to receive the larger mirror that was later named GMS. A 2000 FC/M or even better the 2000 FCW are often available at bargain prices.

 

Any Acute Matte is easily recognised by the extra thin cross hairs unless of course it has a grid or a split and microprisms.

[erie_patsellis]

Actually, given recent pricing, an EL or EL/M would be the cheapest. Heavy, quirky to use, but I use mine far more than the C/M these days. Once you get used to them, they make life easy. (and build upper body strength almost as well as my RB67...)

 

 

erie

[paul_gardener]

Hi Erie,

 

The EL/M/X bodies are built like a tank and save you from visiting the gym.

You are right well worth considering as the cheapest way to get started.

That is untill the camera needs batteries or a CLA.

[marek_fogiel]

Andy, the 501 C/M or 503 CW are clearly preferable, but if you want to start on the cheap.

you can get a 500 C/M and get a second body later on for the longer lenses. The vignetting

with the 180 will take away about 1 cm of vision at the top. I find the 50,100 and 180 combo

to be of incredible quality, alternatively a 60,120 set is also great for people shooting.

Generally speaking though, remember that your best friend will be a good tripod, else you

will have hard time seeing the true capabilities of these lenses. Enjoy !

[erie_patsellis]

Paul,

9v battery and a couple of pieces of copper take care of the battery problem (or $35 or so from ebay, if you not of the DIY bent). After using the 9V solution, as well as a small holder for 4-AA's, I have 2 NiMH batteries sitting on the shelf, it's far easier for me, at least. (no, the 9v battery won't damage the camera)

 

As you and I know all mechanical cameras need a CLA from time to time, Hassy's are no different, David Odess charges $150 for a C or C/M, 215 for a EL or EL/M. Looking at the bigger picture, ELs sell for no more than $200 or $250, about $200 or so less than a C or C/M. Still comes out cheaper, even after a CLA.

 

I've looked at this myself because I have both a C/M and an EL and am looking for a second body for use in a studio envronment, keeping an EL on the stand is the least expensive way to go, short or long term.

 

If you are of the DIY attitude, the 5 pin din plug on the side opens up all kinds of possibilities, from a homebrewed intervalometer, release cable, external power, etc.

 

In additon, the EL or EL/M, from what I understand, make the digital back option much more user friendly, though I don't have a preference motorized or not. (and I'm pretty sure if I could find the money for a CFV, the wife's divorce attorneys would surely get it back....)

erie

[q.g._de_bakker]

Andy,<br><br>The 503 CW ads winder-capability as well. And to be 100% clear - thoug i think you do know this - the metering the 503 CW offers is TTL OTF flash metering through a dedicated adapter and matching flash unit only.<br><br>a) I don't notice a difference between the shutter buttons - fat or slim - really. But other people may think different.<br><br>b) You learn how to deal with the mirror cut-off, and then it is not a big problem at all. But is indeed nicer to use cameras that have a full sized mirror.<br><br>So given the choice, 500 C/M or 501 CM, i'd get the 501 CM.<br><br>The indicator dot on the body is/was nice, but do not fotget that there is a much larger, and more obvious indicator: until you wind the camera, the nirror will be up, and you will see absolutely nothing through the viewfinder. With such a large, and strategically placed indicator, who needs the tiny window on the side? ;-)<br><br>he 2000-series cameras were mentiond. They are great machines, and not only offer a larger mirror (and the FCW models a winder option too), but a fast extra shutter too.<br>But when shopping for one, do inspect the state of the shutter curtains! These are very vulnerable, extremely thin titanium foils, and you should not even consider a camera that has even the tiniest dent in one of the curtains. The eralier models F and FC/M had slightly less good shutter circuits, and can no longer be repaired. So if considering a 2000-series model, better stick to either a 2000 FCW or 2003 FCW.<br>On the up side: there is someone producing and installing replacement shutter curtains, made from a less vulnerable material. I don't know what the costs are, but maybe that will give 2000-series bodies with damaged shutter curtain a new life?<br><br>The EL models are indeed very sturdy machines. But they are used hard, and i have seen quite a few that still ticked over nicely, but were seriously out of whack, and needed readjusting before they could be used further.<br>They got the larger mirror starting with the 500 ELX model, so the earlier EL and EL/M still vignette.<br>I like EL(...)s a lot, and even carry one around with me as a walkabout camera, but they are heavy!<br><br>EL(...)s do not offer an advantage over non-motorized cameras when using digital cameras, except that you do not need to rewind manually (same advantage when using film). The rare, and expensive (!), ELD did offer an interface to digital backs, eliminating the need for an external cord to synchronize back and shutter.

[ken_schuster]

Another feature of the CW... To wring the last drop of quality out of your Zeiss lenses, you should lock-up your mirror and then release the shutter. That entails using a cable release, which can still transmit movement to the camera. With the winder attached, you can use the IR release, which means nothing touches the camera.

[gregory_c]

SAve your money & go with a 500C/M or 501C or 501CM

[andy_piper2]

Just wanted to say thanks again for the guidance.

 

I ended up with a 503CX - for the same price as a 500CM - which got me the "modern"

screen and palpas coating, plus the "old" status indicator dot. I don't need the ttl flash now -

but you never know. And I find the cutoff with the 180 to be not much of a problem.