SB800 off camera with D2H

[newindustar]

What are all the options for using a SB 800 well off camera with a D2H?

 

I am looking for full i-ttl not just the flash doing autoflash ala PC sync cord.

 

 

The SC29 cord only looks long enough for a strobo frame. I am talking about

feet away with the flash on a tripod. Is there any extension for the SC-29?

 

The D2H has no built in flash and I have no other flash.

 

Does the D2H have any options to talk to the wireless of the remote 800? I get

the idea the wireless comm is flash to flash not camera to remote flash. Is this

correct?

 

What may I be missing?

 

Thanks

[juanjo_viagran]

SU-800

 

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=4&productNr=4794

[newindustar]

I looked up the SU-800 and that certaintly is a solution although approaching the cost of a flash why would one buy this commander instead?

 

I also could not find an extension for the SC-29.

[Matt Laur]

Or, use another SB800, which can also serve as a commander.

[brad_w]

Yes, you'll need additional hardware.

 

The SC-29 can be stretched to several feet long. it's easy as long as my arm extended and

I've had an assistant stand maybe 4 feet to one side holding the flash while I made

pictures.

 

A standard PC cord will, I believe, give you only manual mode on the flash output, though

since I never use the SB's A mode I really don't know.

 

Or you could use Pocket Wizard radio slaves, which trigger a unit remotely but lose the

iTTL metering, which you don't need anyway.

 

An additional SB800 (total of 2) or an SU 800 mounted on the D2H hot shoe can act as a

commander and communicate with the remote (off camera) SB800. This can be metered

with iTTL or manual mode. (Again, I've got no idea about A mode.) Lots of caveats to

Nikon's wireless system, but it does basically work.

[newindustar]

I was hoping for more length that the SC-29. Thanks for the length info.

 

I did see one reason to go the SU-800 route if you specifically don't want any on camera flash going off.

 

Is the SB-800 the only flash model with Commander capability?

 

Does the SB-800 have to fire light to communicate with the slave i.e not really wireless as in RF but optical or IR? If IR can the SB-800 work without firing light in Commander mode?

 

 

Why would I not care if I lost i-ttl or do you just mean i-ttl but not ttl? I would not really want to be in manual only, Auto flash would probably be better than that right?

[brad_w]

iTTL uses mainly IR to communicate, but the (visible) flash of an SB 800 commander does

fire as well. I don't know what does what when, but with the SB800 commander it is

possible to make the commander produce zero flash output during exposure.

 

iTTL really is wireless in that there really are no wires. But, no, it does not use radio to

communicate. There's plenty here on photo.net about the pros and cons of iTTL. I'm sure

a search will find it.

 

For what I do, I generally set flash output manually. Even when I'm using CLS to trigger

the slave, I set slave output "by hand". It's pretty much like setting ambient exposure

manually. You need to know what you're doing but once you've climbed the learning

curve, it's more reliable. That said, whoever programmed iTTL did a great job. It's usually

pretty close.

 

Yes, the SB800 is the only Nikon flash with commander capability. The SB600 can be a

slave, however.

 

B

[lex_jenkins]

Some photographers have altered their SC-29 TTL cords to remove the coils so the full extension is easier to use unassisted. While the coiled cord can be stretched out full length., either the camera tripod or device on which the flash is mounted will tend to tip over.

 

If I'm recalling correctly, the coils can be relaxed by using hot water. Naturally, don't put the end modules in the water. And be sure there are no nicks, cuts or holes in the cord insulation. Haven't tried this myself, no idea how well it works.

 

Other folks have used this or similar tricks to shorten the cord, or simply because they disliked coiled telephone cords.

[douglas lee]

The SB-800, in commander mode, fires a "pre-flash" but does not contribute flash to the

exposure. (It can, but you can set to not.) The pre-flash is how SB-800 commander

communicates to the SB_800 remote unit.

 

The SU-800 uses IR and has greater range than the SB-800 used as a commander.

[lex_jenkins]

Here's an earlier thread with descriptions and illustrations for modifying the curly cords:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00DwXB

[newindustar]

Really great specific answers all of you. This has helped tremendously and I think I have a decent fundamental grasp of the situation now.

 

The SU-800 is probably about the cost of a SB-600. I believe the SU-800 may have more range and a few other benefits over the SB-800 but I cannot list them. Really all they need to do is make an extension cord for the SC-29 cable like Sunpak does for the 622, or did.

 

Let me clarify my intent here. I need a setup where I can follow a model around without an assistant with the flash on a tripod often many feet away from the camera. I like what can be done with a single off camera flash.

 

The Nikons solutions mentioned here would be over $300 which I cannot do just now. This brings me to AutoFlash and a long PC cable which I already have.

 

I have a nice Sunpak 622 with a little softbox and a rechargeable power pack. Nice setup but no Nikon ttl adapter is available for Nikon digital cameras. Of course I have AFlash with the SB-800 but no softbox or power pack which I would really need to buy. I don't know what those options are.

 

I was thinking about opening an AutoFlash post. It seems it would a yield a higher percentage of well exposed subjects than manual if the setup is constantly being moved. I am trying to avoid constantly changing apeture, shutter, and flash power every scene.

 

The Sunpac is desirable because it is big, and has the softbox and power pack. Has anyone experience with the SB-800 AutoFlash used with a PC cord and if so would it have any advantage over the 622s Autoflash?

 

When using Autoflash what is the simplest approach? Should one try to settle on a fixed shutter or apeture with models from very close face shots to whole body? The problem with the 622 AF is you still need to pick a ratio or power I believe. I would be nice if I could leave it on full power and hope the AFlash would be able to control output effectively weather near or far. In my experience it could handle distance variations better than manual but with limitations. That's my delima, the always changing flash distance with no ttl.

 

I wonder if the SB-800 AF has less need to select a power or if it can Auto handle the output better than the 622?

[jim mucklin]

Options: If you want to shoot manual and flash manual go with the pocket wizards, they are radio

If you would like to retain TTL

1. you can do it with the cord, there use to be a tutorial where you could lenghten the cord a couple of feet.

2. Your could mount a 800 on camera to control one or many groups of 800 or 600's ( you'll need more than one flash.

3. You could purchase the SU-800 to do the same as #2.

I went for #2 I ended up with two flashes, wish I had four.

[newindustar]

Well what I'd like to do now that you've helped me understand what is involved and the costs is to figure out the best way to use Autoflash (thyristor) on one of my two flashes with a PC cord. The problem is I can't make the investment to do it the right way so Autoflash seems better than full manual method. I can reread the 622 manual and that flash should be pretty straight foward but I am wondering the best way to use the SB-800s autoflash feature.

[frank_skomial]

1. Insert SB-800 in the camera hot shoe.

 

2. Attach the Sunpak 622 to the camera via the bracket to camera tripod socket.

 

3. Plug the Sunpak PC sync cord into the side PC sync socket on the SB-800 flash body.

 

4. Set SB-800 in iTTL or iTTL/BL mode. Put dome diffuser on the flash.

 

5. Set 622 to Manual mode and rotate or disconnect the flash to provide bounced flash off walls, ceilings etc. This way 622 will not overpower SB800.

 

You will get better pictures with 622 and SB800 then the SB-800 alone.

 

Then ... instead of cables, you could use pair of Pocket Wizards and use Sunpakn 622 at longer distance remotely. I use large studio flashes this way.

[frank_skomial]

1. Insert SB-800 in the camera hot shoe.

 

2. Attach the Sunpak 622 to the camera via the bracket to camera tripod socket.

 

3. Plug the Sunpak PC sync cord into the side PC sync socket on the SB-800 flash body.

 

4. Set SB-800 in iTTL or iTTL/BL mode. Put dome diffuser on the flash.

 

5. Set 622 to Manual mode and rotate or dismount the flash handle to provide bounced flash off walls, ceilings etc. This way 622 will not overpower SB800.

 

You will get better pictures with 622 and SB800 than the SB-800 alone.

 

Then ... instead of cables, you could use pair of Pocket Wizards and use Sunpak 622 at longer distance remotely. I use large studio flashes this way.

 

"I wonder if the SB-800 AF has less need to select a power or if it can Auto handle the output better than the 622?" - SB800 uses in-camera iTTL system, and is in different league. They cannot be compared the way you asked.

 

SB-800 tests tests and computes required flash output BEFORE the camera shutter is open (pre-flashes), while 622 just trims light output during exposure time. Because SB800 does not know about the presence of 622, it always provides correct amount of light computed well before 622 fires. Overexposure possible if flashes output in the same direction, and 622 not far away. That is, if you direct full power 622 at the same direction as SB800, most likely the picture will be over exposed by combined ligths.

 

SB800 cannot compensate for 622 output, since at the exposure time it does not adjust previously computed output during pre-flasg testing.

 

SB800 and 622 are not compatible with each other.. However you could possibly compare SB-800 back compatible Auto thyristor mode with the 622 Auto mode, as these 2 modes are about the same, using on the flash built-in sensor to trim the light output to desired level.

 

You cannot use both flashes operating in the Auto thyristor mode and expect correct exposure.

[newindustar]

I've been out sick thus my lapse in response.

 

I read your response in detail Frank and thanks for taking the time to type it up.

 

There is a fundamental clarification you supplied me I was not aware of in regards to the SB-800 doing it's calc pre-exposure. I assumed it was all dynamic TTL at exposure time. One reason for this is because I was getting under-exposures which I assumed were because the 622 output was blasting light at the camera which in any auto mode was shutting down based on the 622 emission not the subject. If there is no dynamic camera exposure control with the SB-800 during exposure that changes things. Or perhaps the camera is still doing ttl for the ambient during exposure. It is hard to understand where Nikon is using Balanced ttl and where the 800 is doing it's own thing etc.

 

I never tried mounting both flashes on the camera at the same time in the manner you suggested but can see where that is worth trying.

 

 

".. However you could possibly compare SB-800 back compatible Auto thyristor mode with the 622 Auto mode, " Yes I was asking that question if the 800 does thyristor "Autoflash" differently or better than the 622. And you say not. As well I can see where both of them trying to Autoflash would be a failure.

 

My best success was just using the 622 in Autoflash off camera with the camera in manual. I was after hard shawdows splitting a face etc. For that having the flash feet away from the camera seemed helpful. For more balanced shots having both flashes on camera probably better if my arms can take it.

 

I still am wondering the best way to use the 622 alone off camera using it's thyristor autoflash. One the D2H should I use a flash sync of 250? I think I'll still be best off with the camera in manual tho I'd like to do an auto mode in conjunction with 622 autoflash. This is not for bright outdoor fill flash situation, more for indoor.

[newindustar]

I did try the SB800 in the hotshoe and the 622 on the bracket at the same time and I got nowhere even with the 622 on its lowest power setting and facing well away from the camera. The camera I tried in all modes. The 622 continually confused the camera all over the place. I get really good results with the 622 doing auto seemingly as good as the BB800 doing ttl but I can't attest to a wide range of conditions. Also getting both flashes working together is not solved. Likely if everything was stationary and manually adjusted I could arrive at harmony but I was looking for a more dynamic solution.