mark_calaunan Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Hi all, I still can't decide on what equipment to get (40D or 5D, and lenses that would fit my interest, portrait and travel). Anyway, I know that 5D is due to be replaced this year, but I'm sure that the price tag for that would be steep so waiting for it will be out of the question. I don't know if 5D's features and processor is still ok, even if it still using older technologies, compared with 40D (if I'm not mistaken)... Can you please help me build a system that is under $4,000 (with 2-5 lenses) that has a razor sharp image quality for portraits and everyday walk around. I have some options in my mind, but I don't want to influence your choices. Thank you so much! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenPapai Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Canon 85 1.8 is one of the best for low price -- high quality, sharp, and nothing bad to say about it. The 135 f.2 is also raved about, but I've never used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andre_stull Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 You are always better off investing in quality lenses because they will hold their value for years to come. So, I would purchase full frame glass only! One example, why.. 10-22 crop costs the same as 17-40L full frame. The 'L' is faster, weather sealed, mechanically superior and comes with a hood and case and will work on ANY canon d-slr body! As for the body..full frame lenses deserve full frame sensors. No more guess work about focal range, what you see is what you get. Lenses are designed to have certain bokeh quality that only a full frame sensor can bring out truely. You can use the lenses the way they were meant to be used. That's why the 5D is a better camera than any crop body. Your subject just stands out and bokeh is smooth as heck. Yes, the 40D is awesome and has great speed (fps). However, over 95% of Canon lenses are full frame and the 5D takes proper advantage of them all. The 5D viewfinder blows the 40D away. You can always crop a 5D image to a 40D perspective. But how can you go wider and faster than the 10-22 lens on the 40D? You simple have more options with the 5D. As for lenses.. 15 fisheye, 50 1.4, 100 2.8 macro, 70-300 DO and DxO Optics Pro software. Dxo will de-fish the fisheye to 12mm then around 8mm fully. That's amazing. It will fix everything automatically. It's crazy good. Just try out demo at dxo.com. The 'DO' lens is the same size as a 100mm prime so it will always be ready for action which makes it pricesless in my book! I prefer primes but just rent what you think you need and have fun shooting.. Good Luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug_harhai Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Mark, You are probably aware that 'perfect' doesn't exist. Your post is struggling between what you want and what you can afford. We all want razor sharp lenses that we could use for portrait, walk around shooting, and which are within our budget, but for most of us we just can't get these to synch up. I would love a 24-70L zoom but have you seen the price? I can't justify it to the wife--yet. As Ken recommended, the 85 1.8 is a great lens. Almost on par with my medium format glass. Easily the sharpest 35mm glass that I have, and a great portrait lens. As for the 5D, don't fall for the line about the decrepit 5D. The way people talk about it, you would think that it was on its deathbed, giving its last rites. I got mine last night, and all I can say is 'wow'. If it is so bad, why are so many top wedding pros using it? It is still a great camera for travel and portraits; if you are shooting sports or don't want a FF camera, look at the 40D. Like you, I wanted the updated version of the 5D, it didn't happen, so I will use this until it comes out then I'll sell the 5D and upgrade. BTW, with 5D, 24-70L, and 85 1.8 you should come in just under 4k. All you need is a longer focal length or 2 (or longer zoom)and you are set, but in my opinion you may not even need the longer focal lengths very often for that type of shooting. The times that I have needed anything longer than 85mm while on travel is very rare. Is this combination perfect? No, probably not. Such a combination will never exist by definition. But with this setup, you will have a hard time blamimg the gear for the shots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaetano catelli Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Canon EOS-5D Digital SLR Camera Body Kit with EF 24-105L Image Stabilizer Lens -- $2,749.00 -- http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DK.html?searchinfo=canon%205d&item_no=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seismiccwave Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I love primes so I will go with the 5D and the 35mm 1.4L and 85 mm 1.2L. OTOH the perfect combo for portrait may be the Hassy H3D with a 135mm.;-) Then again I am not ready to mortgage my house for it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_barbu1 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 For me, the 3 fps of the 5D is a bit of a deal-breaker. The 6.5 fps (or thereabouts) is much more to my liking. Besides, for portraiture, you'll be shooting telephoto. The full frame sensor won't help much in that respect. As for lenses, you'll do well to buy ones that have a maximum aperture of f/2.8 or larger (smaller number). Inherently, that'll help you avoid the lower quality ones. I would also avoid EF-S lenses -- if for no other reason than they won't work with the 5D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubreyp Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 If I had $4K and no gear, here's what I'd buy: 1) 5D $2000 2) 50mm f1.4 $300 3) 85mm f1.8 $300 4) 135mm f2 $900 OR 1) 40D $1400 2) 35mm f1.4 $900 3) 50mm f1.4 $300 4) 85mm f1.8 $300 Obviously the 5D is a nicer camera, better res, etc. but you can get more glass if you get a 40D and don't care about going wide, which is not *usually* necessary for non-documentary portraits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari v Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 "for portraiture, you'll be shooting telephoto. The full frame sensor won't help much in that respect." I can't see how it hurts. You can't go wrong with the 85-135mm primes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sami_lahtinen Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 get the Eos 400D body and 50 mm L 1.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_barbu1 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 <p><i>I can't see how it hurts. You can't go wrong with the 85-135mm primes.</i></p><p>I didn't mean that it hurts; only that the biggest selling point for getting the 5D is not really one.</p><p>That makes the 40D more attractive, given the price, etc. Since you won't likely be benefiting from the full frame sensor, you can spend that money on more expensive lenses.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenPapai Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Aubrey said,<p><i> 1) 5D $2000 2) 50mm f1.4 $300 3) 85mm f1.8 $300 4) 135mm f2 $900 OR <br /> 1) 40D $1400 2) 35mm f1.4 $900 3) 50mm f1.4 $300 4) 85mm f1.8 $300 </i> <p> Those are perfect line-ups fitting your budget. My only quibble is the 50 1.4, still many people like it here (EOS forum) enough to keep on recommending it, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arie_vandervelden1 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Travel and walk-around. I shoot a 400D with a Tamron 17-50/2.8. Nice setup, sharp, I like it, small and light and under-the-radar, perfect for travel. A few steps up would be 40D with Canon 17-55/2.8 IS. For full-frame you could go 5D with 24-70/2.8 or 24-105/4. Portraiture. There are some nice and affordable primes out there like 85/1.8 and 100/2. Or you could go with a zoom line 70-200/4 or 70-200/2.8. All are very popular and razor sharp. A prime doubles up as a nice light telephoto lens for travel, whereas a 70-200 (especially the 2.8) can get pretty heavy, big brick in the rucksack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdigi Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 You can get a rebel and a good lens and get great shots. In other words I would spend more money on lenses and a flash and less on a body. which lenses? that depends. If your budget is 4K you can easily get 1 L lens and a prime. Back to cameras the 40D and 5D are both excellent cameras so you really cannot go wrong. Basically if you want more reach and faster shooting go with the 40D. If you want wider go 5D. I would argue that image quality with either camera would be almost unnoticeable. Everyone gets a little to caught up in gear, what did photographers do 10 years ago with lesser camera gear? Also don't over look a good flash unit. 580EX2 is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_ethridge Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hi Mark, I hope this helps. I own a 10D and a 5D. IMHO, there is no right or wrong as to full frame or APS frame sensor, but I love the 5D full frame! As for lenses, I prefer to use my 17-40mm f/4 USM L, 50mm f/1.4 USM, and 100mm f/2 USM combination. I prefer prime lenses over zooms for the wide apertures and for the size and weight advantage. A 50mm f/1.8 would be a great lens also. The 17-40 zoom works like a 28- 80 on my 10D, but I'd rather have a 24mm prime and use full frame and 3 lenses. With a 5D and the 3 lenses, I have all that I need for travel and portraiture photography. I do own a couple of Canon flash units, but I hate flash about as much as I love full frame. Throw in an EOS 35mm body for backup and you're all set. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_barbu1 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I wouldn't recommend flash without also recommending a soft box - or suggest making your own, to soften the harshness of the flash. Of course, that's assuming your portraiture will be in a studio environment, rather than mobile. If mobile, you'll want a diffuser to go along with the flash, assuming your lenses aren't fast enough that you don't need the flash in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_myers Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hi Mark, Are you starting from scratch? No D-SLR or lenses at all? If so, I'd go along with a couple other recommendations here, put your money into lenses initially and get a "basic body" for now. You can accomplish your goals with either camera, but due to the different formats would have to slightly modify your lens selection depending upon which model you choose. It's a pretty sure bet this will just be your initial purchase, that you will be adding more and upgrading in years to come. Do you intend to make 16x20 and 18x24 prints? If so, you probably would want the 5D and it's 13MP sensor. If you won't be printing larger than 13x19, the 40D's 10MP will probably be all you need. In fact, you could probably even get an 8MP 30D for that matter, and have even more to put into your lens kit (There are still a few new 30Ds around, and they are widely available use. It's actually a "younger" model than the 5D, and handles very similarly.) Now we really have to get into what lenses you prefer, based upon what you plan to shoot and what you have used in the past. You mention portraits, and I'd never hesitate to recommend the 50/1.4 and 85/1.8 for a crop sensor body (40D) or the 85/1.8 and 135/2 for full frame. The question that comes to my mind is what sort of lenses you might want for travel, besides reasonably portable ones. Do you have a preference for primes? For travel, zooms might be desirable. Do you want wide, tele? If you go with a 1.6X crop sensor body, about the widest prime at a less than stellar price is the 20/2.8 (equal to about 32mm on a film/full frame body). If you consider a zoom you can get wider, such as the 17-40/4 (roughly equal to 27mm wide on film/FF). Much wider you are getting into EF-S and digital only lenses that won't be usable on any full frame D-SLR you might get in the future. On the other hand, it's not hard to resell lenses and recoup much of your investment. Tele is another matter. For travel, a zoom like the 70-200/4 IS seems an ideal lens in many respects (on either sensor format, of course it's more dramatic on 1.6X). But there are certainly prime lens alternatives, if you prefer (most without IS, though until you get to 300mm and longer). And, finally, what other things do you need? Flash has been mentioned. The XXD cameras have a built-in flash, but it's of limited value. Do you need an accessory flash? There's also the cost of extra batteries, extra compact flash cards, vertical/battery grips if you use those, possibly a camera bag, tripod and image processing software for your computer, plus possibly additional RAM or more HD storage space. Are any of these part of your budget, or do you already have what you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_calaunan Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Thank you so much for all your replies. Yes, I am starting from scratch. Right now, I think I'm leaning more towards 5D. I know 40D is an awesome camera, BUT given the right time, I might switch again to a full frame camera. So it will be another learning curve for me, and I have to start feeling comfortable to the equipment again. And I know 5D is not a bad camera at all, considering it's age in the market. About the lens, at first I'm thinking of getting the 24-105 kit that goes with 5D. But I know I shoot a lot on low lights, so I'm a little hesitant. 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 IS is a good combination, but it's weight and price pulled me away. Primes, on the other hand, is cheap and light (?), but I don't know if the range is enough for me or not (50, 85 and 135), and worse, I might miss some good shots. Oh well, it is soooo hard to decide, but in the end, I know whatever I choose, I will enjoy it. I have to hurry up before canon's rebate ends on feb 17! Thank you again Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_taylor11 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Canon XTi - 580.00 Canon 85 f/1.2 LII - 1664.00 Canon 135 f/2.0 L - 900.00 Canon 35 f/1.4 L - 1100.00 Total = 4,244.00 This would be my choice kit if I was just starting out and had 4,000.00 to spend. You will upgrade your camera in a few years, but lenses are for life. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_barbu1 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I've got the f/2.8 zooms. The weight is a bit of a surprise at first, but you do get used to it (if you shoot more than just occasionally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photographicsafaris Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Hi Mark <br>Portraits... theres a good reason why the most used camera for wedding photographers is the 5D. Essentially it is THE portrait camera. <p> <br>Canon 5d + 24-105 lens =$2750 new <br>Canon 85 f1.8 = $430 <br>Canon 70-200 f2.8 is $1900 <br>3 x 4gb Sandisk ultra II 4GB cards $100 <br>Canon 550ex speedlight $200 <p> Now that leans on your budget but more realistically addresses your needs <br>If you can, get the 70-200 second hand, or even the 5D second hand from a numptee "upgrading" the longest standing DSLR which has earned many photographers their living... <br>It will fall into your budget. <p>You will need a tripod, buy a lightweight expensive one, it is worth it. <br>This is an ideal high quality starter point <p> Cheers G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_barbu1 Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 <p><i>Essentially it is THE portrait camera.</i></p><p>I think that should be changed to: <i>the CHEAP portrait camera</i>. What makes the 5D more of a portrait camera than the the 1Ds series?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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