john clark Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Hi folks. I have a 10D which is now approaching its fifth birthday - it has served me well but I have always missed the wider angle stuff, and being non-EF-S compatible my only choice is full-frame wide-angles which become somewhat normal. I use a 17-40/4L, a 50/1.4, an 85/1.8 and a 100/2.8 Macro. Rarely need anything longer. Oh, I have just added a 430EX flash too, which I'm still learning. I would like to get a 5D but as I shoot a fair amount indoors, or in poorer lighting conditions, I want to know that noise is going to be low, or if it's there, it has to be 'good looking noise' (cf. film-grain). Specifically, I find the 10D's noise to start to become slightly intrusive at ISO 800. I can see hints of noise at 400, and 100 & 200 are effectively noise-free. How would a 5D compare? Is its ISO 800 cleaner than 400? 200? on the 10D. What about ISO 1600 - cleaner than 800? 400? I've not found anything comparing them directly. Thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radu_vadan Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Well, have a look. These were shot with the 5D and the 100 f-2.8 macro, wide open, at ISO 3200. I think it's more than OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john clark Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 They look good, Radu, but as they're not full size images I can't tell what the noise is like. I know for a fact that had you used my 10D for those shots, the noise would be apparent even at the small Flickr size, but it doesn't quite answer my question. Thanks for the response though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark u Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 You do realise that the Tokina 12-24, Sigma 10-20 and Tamron 11-18 all work with your 10D? Then of course there are also Sigma's 12-24 and 15-30 full frame lenses. There is no need to feel constrained to 17mm at the wide end with a 10D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john clark Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Are you sure. Mark? Remember that the 10D doesn't work with EF-S (crop factor) lenses. In any event, I would quite like the full-frame sensor of the 5D to make the best use of my existing lenses, rather than adding more lenses. I know buying a cheaper third-party zoom and a current crop-factor body probably works out cheaper than a 5D body but I'd quite like some kind of parity in effective focal length with my wife's EOS 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielleetaylor Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 dpreview.com has sample images at the end of the 5D review. There are some ISO 1600 shots at the end. I'm not sure if any are at 3200. You might want to look at samples from the 40D as well. I realize that still leaves you with a cropped sensor, but it's another option and for the price difference you could add another zoom that starts at 10-12 mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danield Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 You can search for full-size pictures with a range of cameras and ISO settings at http://www.pixel-peeper.com/ All APS-C crop Tokinas, Sigmas and Tamrons mentioned will work on the 10D. Some of them work even on full-frame cameras. Only Canon's EF-S lenses won't mount on the 10D and that's intentional from Canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark u Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 With some surgery even some EF-S lenses can be used on a 10D: http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/tutorials/efs-10d.html All the crop third party lenses in EF mount work on full frame cameras - the only issue is the degree of vignetting from smaller image circles. For some lenses over a range of focal lengths vignetting can be ignored as a problem on a full frame camera - e.g. the Tokina 12-24 is OK from about 19-24mm, giving much the same angle of view at the wide end on both formats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 John, let us hear if you find an answer to the noise issue. I'm in almost exactly same situation as you. The options are 5D, 40D, and waiting for 5D mkII, and I'm getting tired of waiting. :) 5D *should* be better at least in the sense that if you downscale from 12MP into 6MP, you effectively have larger pixel area, and that should show up as lower noise. But it would be nice if 5D were better pixel-wise as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterlyons Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Dig into the review archives at dpreview.com. Here's the information you're looking for. 10D: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos10d/page18.asp 5D: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/page21.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janne Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 <p>Oops. From my own bookmarks: <a href="http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/digital.sensor.performance.summary/"> http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/digital.sensor.performance.summary/</a> <p>More than enough on the 10D vs. the 5D over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john clark Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thanks. Janne - your link just puzzled me, I'd hoped for pictures but it's just numbers to me... all very interesting but I couldn't find quite what I was after... will have a look at Peter's links now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neild Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I can give you no information other than this: since I got my 5D, I've not used my 10D, ever. Make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauh44 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Like Neil, I retired my 10D after getting a 1Ds2. But a few months ago, I sent my 10D off to LifePixel and had it converted to infrared. They remove the IR and anti-alias filters over the sensor. I haven't used it much because it's winter here - foliage does great with IR so I'm waiting on spring - but I immediately noticed how much sharper the images are with those filters removed. I wish camera manufacturers would make those AA filters either optional or removeable somehow. There's really quite a difference with it gone. Anyway, I have no hard data but I think it's safe to say that the 5D will pretty much smoke a 10D in the noise department at and above ISO 800. Even my 1Ds2 does and its pixels are more densely packed together, I believe, than the 5D's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyDigs Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I upgraded from a 10D to 5D in April 2006 and there really is no comparison: the 5D has smoother and more detailed images at any ISO. ISO 1600 on the 5D is similar to ISO 400 on the 10D. For that reason I rarely moved my 10D past ISO 400 and kept it at ISO 100 90% of the time. With the 5D I don't hesitate using ISO 800 or 1600 if the situation calls for it. With all that said, the 40D is just as good as the 5D in the low noise department. Sometimes the light’s all shining on me. Other times I can barely see. - Robert Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neild Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hey Beau, I was thinking of doing the same thing to my 10D (or else trying to decide if I can afford a 2nd 5D so as to convert one of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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