Compare 40D to the new Rebel...

[dogbert]

"The 40D is still a far better machine than any of the rebels, and I am not referring to IQ."

 

Better for who? We are all agreed IQ will be about the same. If you don't need the FPS, slightly larger viewfinder and rear wheel (and I don't), then there is no reason to go for a 40D.

[saskphotog]

So, is that the summary of this thread? If you don't need what the 40D has to offer, you don't need a 40D.

 

I guess I can agree with that.

 

What's wrong with any of that?

[gdanmitchell]

Larry, I think the point is that the XSi appears to meet the real needs of the vast majority of DSLR buyers and that its

features differ little in ways that matter to most buyers from those of the 40D.

 

In other words, the follow up to "if you don't need what the 40D has to offer, you don't need a 40D" is the important

thing. Quite a few people who think they need a 40D's features (especially those who don't really quite understand what

these features are and/or do) would indeed be quite well served by the XSi.

 

Some people truly do need some of the 40D features (faster burst in a few cases, for example), but there a fair number of

folks buying a 40D to take family vacation photos with a kit lens because someone told them that it is a "better camera."

 

Dan

[jim_larson1]

I will take it a step further:

 

Given the same lens and the same photographer, the XSi will probably take superior pictures.

 

Yes, the 40D may have a faster shot-to-shot capability. But the XSi has a newer sensor with higher resolution.

 

The "conventional wisdom" is that a sensor with higher pixel density will be inferior and have higher noise. But over time we have seen that sensors that are *newer with higher density* have *equal* performance, if not *better* performance than older sensors with lower density.

[jason_hall4]

>>Given the same lens and the same photographer, the XSi will probably take superior pictures.<<

 

Jim, do you really think they made such vast improvements over the 40Ds sensor in just 6 months. I really would think not. The sensors I am sure were developed side by side for the most part. We will really know when the reviews come out(the real reviews that is).

 

Jason

[jason_hall4]

Heck, I would not even say the 40D images are "superior" to the 30D. It takes some pixel peeping to know the difference, and that is only during times it will show.

 

Jason

[phule]

[[Jim, do you really think they made such vast improvements over the 40Ds sensor in just 6 months.]]

 

Why do so many people assume that product life cycles only start after the previous product has been introduced? Can you not envision a case where the 40D and the XSi sensor development overlapped?

[phule]

**sigh** I'm such an idiot. Please (continue to) ignore me.

[jason_hall4]

Its alright Rob. :o)

 

Jason

[dan_hall4]

I recently got a 40D and love it. I held the Rebel and the 40D and it took about 1.3 seconds to figure out which one I wanted. They are two totally different cameras. Both able to take excellent images I am sure. But totally different. The difference in build quality alone is worth the price difference to me. I have grown to love the 6.5 fps as well. It just comes down to how much you want to spend and what you are using the camera for.

[shuo_zhao]

>>>>>">>Given the same lens and the same photographer, the XSi will probably take superior pictures.<<

 

Jim, do you really think they made such vast improvements over the 40Ds sensor in just 6 months. I really would think not. The sensors I am sure were developed side by side for the most part. We will really know when the reviews come out(the real reviews that is)."

 

The 40D's sensor is a modified 400D sensor with a better low-pass filter design, and persumably various minor improvements.

 

With 2 extra megapixles, the 450D XSi's sensor has to be more of a modification of 400D's, even if they are still related.

 

...Now I'm really not sure whether to get the 450D Xsi, the 40D, or to wait for the 5D Mark 2 and/or 7D.

[dave_holland]

"I held the Rebel and the 40D, and it took about 1.3 seconds to figure out which one I wanted."

 

My experience, too. When you hold these two cameras in hand it will be fairly obvious. I bought my daughter an XTi. Holding it in hand, it was clear to me that my lowly 20D felt like a higher quality tool. The XTi felt like a toy in comparison. I haven't held the XSi but I expect a similar experience with the newer models. The minor difference in sensor size seems less important.

 

However it would be interesting to see some info on dynamic range comparison - 14 bit vs 12 bit A/D conversion. That may be a more important factor overall. Further evidence to say that the ideal camera is a moving target, soon to be 'obsolete' regardless of which you choose.

 

Dave

[photos of hans koot]

In addition, take a look here to see whats changed with the xti.

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012415canoneos450dchanges.asp

 

good luck :-)

[keith reeder]

"<b>The 40D's sensor is a modified 400D sensor</b>"<br><br>

 

People keep saying this, but it's an over-simplification.<br><br>

 

It's actually a "from-the-ground-up" redesign, which simply uses the 400D sensor as its basis. <br><br>

 

14 bit A/D conversion and 4 channel read-out aren't minor tweaks you bolt onto an existing sensor - they are fundamental design differences that have to be engineered into the sensor's "architecture".<br><br>

 

It also has brand new on-chip NR - again, not a trivial to implement "bolt-on". <br><br>

 

Canon itself says on <a href="http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=15653#ModelFeaturesAct">this page</a>:<br><br>

 

"<b>the EOS 40D's CMOS sensor uses much of the new technology first seen in the EOS-1D Mark III camera</b>" and I reckon that's about right - it's closer to the Mk III sensor than the 400D sensor, regardless of its "origin".

[bobatkins]

I'd say it's all in the ergonomics. These days the actual image quality from the XTi, 20D, 30D and 40D is all pretty similar and I suppose the XSi won't be all that different either, at least at lower ISO settings. There might be some differences at ISO 1600 I guess.

 

It really boils down to which camera feels better and which is easier to use, and for most serious photographers, that will be the 40D.

 

I've summarized the differences in a table here: http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_xsi_vs_xti_vs_40D.html

 

Really the only advantage the XSi has is the higher pixel count, assuming it doesn't result in higher noise. The 20% increase in the number of pixels isn't likely to make a very noticable difference to image resolution though. It's less of an improvement than going from 8 to 10MP was (25%), and that didn't have a huge effect. I suppose the contrast based AF in Live View could be an advantage too, though I doubt that too many serious photograhers wil be using Live View on a regular basis. In most other respects the 40D is a better camera.

[jim_larson1]

I think it has become evident that we are seeing ONE development program for the "consumer line". As opposed to having design improvements from the 40D trikle down to the 450D, we are seeing the technology spread to to the X0D and rebel as they are developed. As a result, the "newer" camera will have the superior imaging system.

 

This probably started a few years ago, and became manifest when it was decided to retain the "old" imaging system for the 30D, and then six months later the 400D rolled out with the improved 10mp chip (complete with a sensor cleaner). Note that it then took a full YEAR for the 40D to be released.

 

Also, note that the DIGIC III imaging chip was in a number of P&S cameras released concurrently to the 400D; and yet the 400D did not have it.

 

By the time the 5DMkII rolls around (if ever), we will be wondering if it will have a Digic IV chip.

[aepelbacher]

My dreams came true ... Bob Atkins answered my question with a link to EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Thanks, everyone, for your answers. This gives me lots to think about ... and really helps my decision making process. :-)

[steve_justice]

I upgraded to the 40D from the XT and I like it, but for weddings the wight tends to take it's toll on me. I will definitely sell the 40D for the new Xsi, because in another year the new rebel Xpi will come out then the new rebel Xlt....it never ends. Go tthe store right now, if you like the way the rebel feels then you will probably like the Xsi. If you think the 40D will make you a better photographer (hint: it wont) then get that.