Modern Camera Prices

[bob_salomon3]

BTW,

 

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How come it is alway "I heard from" but no one names who

spreads these rumors?

 

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Also are you speaking of a Linhof dealer who stocks new

Linhofs or one who sells used Linhofs?

[dan_brown1]

Bob, on what basis do you set the standard for veracity of posting on

photo.net? Take a look around, get real.

 

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You expect people to check the assets of privately held companies to

determine if they could, in fact, file bankruptcy before passing

along a rumor? That is ridiculous. Besides you don't have to be

devoid of all assets to file bankruptcy, just insolvent. In fact,

you don't even have to be insolvent, just unable to service your debt.

[bob_salomon3]

No,

 

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But asking people who are most likely to know rather then:

 

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" 2 dealers one of whom is a Linhof dealer" would help.

 

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Why do you think a miscellaneous retailer that is posted

anonymously would be a reliable source"

 

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In fact why would any retailer or user be more authoritative then

someone who has a contract with the vendor directly?

 

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The web is a great source for help but it is one of the worst

sources of rumors, half truths, conspiracy and false hoods

around.

[alan1]

I heard that Linhofs were actually made by Burke and James --- never

mind that BJ went out of business years ago -- theyve got millions of

'em stored in caves in Thuringen! The Pope is responsible for

relableing the cameras from "Burke and James" to "Linhof" --- he wanted

to get back at Americans for electing protestants as president. So

don't waste thousands on Linhof when you can buy a BJ 4x5 for hundreds!

That Carl Zeiss lenses are actually "cosina" lenses with "zeiss"

painted over "cosina." Tmax is actually respooled Chinese army surplus

film from 1958! That Ernst Leitz is NOT headquartered in Wetzlar, but

is run by the illuminati of Bavaria, who are closely tied to the Masons

and the people who killed JFK. Of course, every morning I carefully

line my hat and shoes with aluminum foil and drink a cup of canola oil

to protect myself from cosmic rays...Don't be fooled! Believe

EVERYTHING you read online! Its only in the newspapers that they LIE!

[bill_glickman]

Bob, I posted an aplogy for mentioning this, ... however this

TRASH was obviously not unique to my ears... I also heard this again

from a reputalbe UK dealer.

 

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Anyway, in all fairness, and I know you refuse to address this

issue, don't you think - you should drop your salesman hat when

participating on this forum? Why don't you try it... just for

awhile.... try not to jump down everyones throat once you sense a

post could jeopordize your annual sales goals. Who knows, maybe you

can win back customers like myself, several co workers and many

others on this forum who have elected to buy all your products grey

market as a result of your attitude towards us little people... You

may find this approach more beneficial towards your annual sales? I

propose you give it a try.... OK?

[bob_salomon3]

Bill,

 

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I jumped down your throat for repeating old trash that was

originally posted on April Fools day 1998. It was disputed and

proved wrong then and any "reputable UK dealer" isn't very

reputable if he spreads lies like this. Or he is ignorant.

 

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As to supporting you we have more then done that. Look at what

was sent you at our expense that was far and above your

requests.

 

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Your problem is that you won't accept incorrect statements that

you make that are corrected such as your belief in the loupe

issue. And look at what you call "folklore" because you want't

properly investigate it.

 

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You happen to have a very knowlegable large format dealer in

your town. perhaps you should spend some time with Wayne

their and see what the answers to many of your questions are.

[bob_salomon3]

Bill, I jumped down your throat for repeating old trash that was

originally posted on April Fools day 1998. It was disputed and

proved wrong then and any "reputable UK dealer" isn't very

reputable if he spreads lies like this. Or he is ignorant.

 

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As to supporting you we have more then done that. Look at what

was sent you at our expense that was far and above your

requests.

 

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Your problem is that you won't accept incorrect statements that

you make that are corrected such as your belief in the loupe

issue. And look at what you call "folklore" because you want't

properly investigate it.

 

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You happen to have a very knowlegable large format dealer in

your town. perhaps you should spend some time with Wayne

their and see what the answers to many of your questions are.

[brad_evans2]

I've never met Bob or communicated with him, but I do greatly value

his contributions to this group. Also, from reading his posts, I've

never felt like I was being "sold" the brands he represents. The

comment about "attitude" towards "the little people" is unfair. I get

the feeling from reading other threads that he bends over backwards to

make people/customers happy.

 

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Thanks for the contributions,

[bill_glickman]

Bob, this is not a forum for personal issues, my comments were

generalized for the benefit of the forum... I offered many times in

the past for a truce to personal issues, but you refuse, and I think

that is unfair to the forum...your posts of false information about

people constantly cause people like me to defend my character... it's

so unnecessary.

 

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As you have done since we started comm., you distort the truth to

suit your position, and frankly that gets frustrating and demeaning

after awhile! Although I have explained these things to you in

detail off line, you continue to post these false accusations in this

forum. This is why, when I look back in the old logs in this forum,

long before I began participating, I find one common theme, you have

had repeated personal wars with many posters throughout the years...

I never saw this occur with any other users of this forum... All

these wars were always betwen you and another poster, never between

other posters... Maybe you should go back and refresh your memeory,

then possibly you will see a pattern here. And while your searching

Bob, see if you can find one single personal war I had with any

poster, you won't BOB!

 

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"Bill, I jumped down your throat for repeating old trash that was

originally posted on April Fools day 1998. It was disputed and proved

wrong then"

 

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Bob, did it ever occure to you I never saw that post? Forgive

me for not following the forum 365 days per year. Couldn't have you

mentioned this posted before and reference the previous post? It was

a simple question... had this not been one of your product lines, you

would have never jumped down my throat, that was my point! Had I

asked if Sinar went Bankrupt, you would have provided a peaceful

answer. (assumming you knew) Thats my point of taking off your

salesmans hat when on this forum.

 

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"As to supporting you we have more then done that. Look at what was

sent you at our expense that was far and above your requests"

 

I did not mention support Bob, I mentioned your attitude towards

us, or at least me. So don't switch it around to suit your post. Re

read my post!

 

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"Your problem is that you won't accept incorrect statements that you

make that are corrected such as your belief in the loupe issue."

 

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Out right lie Bob... I am amazed you can not let this issue

die... I addressed this loupe issue to you 3 times, as well as 2

other LF photographers. We performed every test you advised us of,

and none of us came up with the results you anticipated, we contacted

you, and you told said all 3 of us were wrong? And you are accussing

me of not accepting incorrect statements that I make? Re read my

posts Bob, I admit being wrong many times, and it does not bother me

the least...Even as arrogant as you have been towards me, I still

offered apologies and stated I was wrong to you. You need to acquire

that personality trait! YOU NEVER OFFERED THIS TO ME OR ANYONE

ELSE, INSTEAD ONCE CONFRONTED - YOU START A WRITTEN WAR. Being

wrong on this forum is nothing to be ashamed of, this forum has some

incredibly well educated and very knowledgeable people in all areas

of photography... I feel privlaged gaining knowledge and offering

support to help others where ever I can, because so many people have

offered me help in areas I had less experience in. It's such a great

arrangement, I truly respect the forum, it seems others do also.

 

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"And look at what you call "folklore" because you want't properly

investigate it."

 

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The investigation of these topics can clearly be done on this

forum. Just as a poster mentioned above... the only reason you take

some issues personaly and jump down our throats, is because you are

financially connected with these companies. To the last poster, I

just want to mention, that in all fairness, I too appreciate Bob's

wiliingness to offer help on this forum, he has made some excellent

contributions even outside his product line...I am never afraid to

give credit, where its due. But these persoanl issues and arrogant

resposnes only arise when it relates to the product lines he

represents, that was my point.

 

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"You happen to have a very knowlegable large format dealer in your

town. perhaps you should spend some time with Wayne their and see

what the answers to many of your questions are."

 

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Thank you Bob, for telling me how best to handle my

photography issues. I have been quite content using this forum,

thank you. I also could direct you to some places for help, but

that's not the purpose of this forum Bob, so I won't respond.

 

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I apologize to everyone for this "non photography talk" It is

very unlike me to enter in personal issues with anyone like I have

here. However, unlike the real world, when some says something to you

that is false or arrogant, its easy for one to dismiss it. But in a

public forum where everone can read false accusations about me, I

unfortunatley feel the need to defend myself. I appreciate this

forum for the purpose it serves. But like many before me, and

probably many after me, it seems you will not cease this type of

posting? I guess for as long as anyone does not agree with your

opinions or suggests anything potentially negative about your product

lines, you find posting arrogance and lies necesary.

 

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Sorry Bob, I am not a door mat, and will not allow you to post

half truths and false statements about me without defending myself.

But its obvious, not matter how many times I email you offline about

these issues, you will ignore them, and continue this rediclulous

public behavoir.

 

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Although I have been warned by many people off line about

dealing with you.... "no one ever wins with Bob S", my point is, I

don't want to win. I am trying to be the bigger person here Bob, and

like I have suggested many times in previous posts, can you once try

to bury the ax and stop the personal assaults? I don't want these

unproductive posts to continue and clog up the forum... do you? For

once I would like to see you address that question, but if history

repeasts itself, you will ignore it. I am always available off line

of by phone to resolve any issues so that we can productive from here

on..

 

My apologies to everyone on the forum...

 

 

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[bob_salomon3]

Bill, you have a wealth of anonymous sources. Why not name

some?

[bill_glickman]

Yeah Bob, I am going to drag innocent people into this for your

amusement, right. If you want a good half dozen sources to start

with - just check the last years casualties of your "war" posts.

How's that for a start? Anyway, is this really the relevant issue

here?

 

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More importantly Bob, as I anticipated, you once again ignored

the key question at the end of my post... so I will just assume this

has been, and will continue to be your mode of operation. Attack

anyone, anytime if they question your knowledge or post anything

remotely negative about your product line. OK, at least you make

yourself clear... Lets end this... I will continue to defend my

self against any false accusations you post about me! Thanks for

being a gentleman about resolving this situation????

[neil_poulsen1]

The more two people fight, the more they become alike. (Confucius)

Please take your diagreements off-line.

[bill_glickman]

Niel, as I mentioned, I have moved this offline many times with

Bob, but he continues to post false accusations about me in public

forums. I unfortunatly feel the need to defend myself. I am sorry

if you would react differently. Moving things off line with Bob does

not seem to resolve this situation, he still feels compelled to make

untrue personal attacks in public forums?

[andrea_milano]

Well,Well, Well,

Q.E.D.

It looks like I wasn't the only one to quarrel with Bob.

I do not want to re-open old wounds but, once and for all, I think

someone has an attitude problem here and since the name which keeps on

coming up is always the same, wouldn't it be time to ask oneself: "Am I

doing anything wrong?".

Wisdom would suggest that if many fingers point to a certain direction

there might be something to look there!

We all have our ways and our idiosyncrasies but , Bob, give us a break

and play the gentleman whom, I am sure, you are.

We all love Linhof, we might not own one but we are all aware of its

enormous merits. We are with you there! Please give your informed

answers without sarcasm, this last one travels so bad on the net!

No offence, but I got so sick of my quarrel with Bob that I stepped out

of this forum, is it worth loosing people to this kind of behaviour?

Adults might argue but not in this fashion, it is childish!

Everyone is entitled to its opinion, one might rectify what another

writes but there is no need to get personal. I mean, Bob, you import

Linhof and yes your livelyhood depends on the credibility of this and

other companies which you import. I respect that, but, I have been

working in my father's vinegar company as well, and yes, sometimes

customer's (or would be so) get you somewhere where it hurts (remember

it was my family's company for the last 111 years!), however, the

perfect sales person reacts with elegance and although might be tempted

to strike back keeps professional and makes his or her point without

antagonizing the author of the misinformed comment.

 

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Linhof is expensive.

 

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Rolls isn't cheap.

 

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Rolex isn't sold at every street corner.

 

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Mouton Rotschild is a dream.

 

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Some people love this things and can afford them, some others love them

and can't afford them. I doesn't matter wether they are or not, value

for money or if their price is actually gone down in proportional or

real terms. You cannot compare prices of time past with time present

because the terms are so revolutionized that it makes a useless

exercise even to attempt doing so. I have no quarrel with highly

skilled equipement, only a small problem when it comes to overprice

products which Linhof only retails under its name after having bought

them from an other company. Linhof is not the only one. Many do so and

frankly speaking if a company does that (I am not talking of specially

selected lenses, I am more in the line of spirit levels, lens boards,

Cable releases, loupes........) has only limited range before of being

called a cheat.

Again, this was meant friendly. Those who might feel hurt, please

accept my apology, I didn't mean that.

Oh! By the way!To Whoever disconnected my automatic URL at the time of

my quarrel with Bob. How childish to do that! I am not hinting that

this was you Bob. Whoever did that .........I simply have no words to

describe the contempt with which I look at his/her action.

Peace,Love and, if possible spend some time making pictures.

[bob_salomon3]

Well it can be pretty easy to tell what items Linhof doesn't make.

They usually start with the catalog # 02 or 03.

 

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If you feel that items like cable releases are not unique to Linhof

then, except for the pro release, you might point out one other

company making the same release.

 

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Obviously no manufacturer with as extensive a line as Linhof

makes every single item. There are always sub suppliers. But

these items are not the camera itself. if you feel that someone

else makes a similar accessory that is as well made by all

means buy it from them.

 

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As for your computer I am afraid that that is a skill well beyond

me. Have you asked your ISP?

[andrea_milano]

Off subject:

The problem had nothing to do with my computer.

after our little quarrel someone, again I am not implying that this

was you Bob, disabled the automatic sending of all the posting to this

forum. It is a rather thing to do if you have the e-mail of the person

whom you want to be nasty to(obviously anyone does since it appear in

any posting), once you have that you only have to fill in the form

which is meant for people who are going on holliday and don't want to

find a pile of e-mails generated automatically by receiving all the

posting to this forum.

Someone did it to me twice, I have been complaining about this with

Quan-tuan Long and unfortunately there is nothin to do about it at

present.

Still, it happened!

Whoever did it is the most childish person I can imagine and doesn't

even have the guts to stand by his opinions.

 

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Accessories come often from various sources, again, overcharging for

this things is a matter of poor style, in life and business fair play

is paramount