Developing 4x5"

[Vlad Soare]

Are there daylight developing tanks for 4x5, similar to those used for MF and

35mm? I mean, you just insert the sheets in a holder, put the lid on, then turn

on the lights and develop normally - pour the chemicals through the light-tight

lid, agitate by inversion, and so on.<br>

Developing in trays is not a very attractive option. Also, Jobo tanks that

accept 4x5 sheets are designed for automated processors.<br>

I can't afford a Jobo processor, and I have no desire to develop sheet film in

trays in the dark. Are there any other options?<br>

Thank you.

[Troll]

Yes, there are such tanks (Nikor and Federal come to mind), and IMO they are a PITA to load and use. In fact, you will probably spend more time in the dark loading them than you would if you develop in trays.

[harold wingo]

Vlad,

 

I have been using the JOBO MultiTank 2 (#2521) for quite some time and I do not have JOBO's auto processor. The tank hold 6 sheets of film. This tank has been used with hand inversion processing and I have stuck it in a large coffee can and let it auto rotate on a UniColor electric roller. This JOBO tank has worked quite well using manual processing.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Harold

[thirteenthumbs]

I also have used a 2521 in inversion processing and obtained excellent results. I have added a 2560 extension and develope 12 sheets (2 reels) at a time with the Jobo manual roller base. I could process 18 sheets (3 reels) in the same drum + extension. Jobo's claim that the 2521 cannot be used for inversion is based on the chemical volume required to fill the tank.

[lwg]

The CombiPlan is a plastic tank that works well once you get used to it's quirks (and can accept a few leaks). Holds 1 liter of fluid and does 6 sheets of film. Development has always been even. At first I had air bells because I was scared to rap it on the sink to dislodge them like a SS tank. And the filling/draining is slow so practice with it before your first batch of film.

[doug grosjean]

<<< Developing in trays is not a very attractive option. >>>

 

 

Early on, I tried the same path you're trying, ie, wanting to do daylight processing and avoid trays.

 

But I bought a Yankee daylight tank, and found it to be terrible. It used a lot of chemistry, leaked, and had uneven development.

 

Didn't want to spend as much money as a Jobo and motor would cost, so then I tried a 6-hole slosher / rocker in a big tray. Got even development that way, but still seemed like a lot of chemistry.

 

Then tried just trays, figuring that at least I wouldn't have to wait to accumulate 6 negs before I developed them. Scratched a few sheets at first, but quickly got the hang of it. Currently I'll do up to 4 sheets at a time, and really like tray processing. Equipment is cheap, simple, and portable; and results are fine.

[ronald_moravec1]

Find a Nikor 4x5 and be sure to get one with the band that holds the film in place. Using a scrap film, adjust the reel top with

the set screws so the film just goes in. In the dark, slide a sheet over the guides to the right until it falls into the grove, then

push it towards the center. Keep going until all 12 are loaded and add the band. Then drop the reel into a tank already full

of developer. Pull up and twist two times and that is the initial agitation. Cap and invert from then on like any stainless

tank.

 

Check the reel spacing at all four rods each time before loading.

 

I guess I have been fooling around in the dark long enough that I can do these things.

 

Jobo 6 sheet reel works with 1400 cc liquid. Hangars work if you agitate a full minute initially, 6/8 cycles, Jobo and Expert

drum is easy, a single sheet in a tray I have mastered, not multiples.

[Vlad Soare]

Doug, I noticed that many people swear by tray developing, but I just don't understand how one can manage to do it properly. I'm not afraid of scratching; I'm sure I won't scratch any sheet if I'm careful. But how do you keep the developer's temperature steady without seeing anything? Last summer the ambient temperature in my darkroom was about 30C. I used to start with the developer at 20C and then make corrections every two or three minutes, because the temperature increased by approximately 0.25 degrees a minute. Add to that the fact that you keep your hands in the developer most of the time, further increasing temperature. How do you cope with that? In the dark, I mean, without being able to see anything, not even the thermometer?<br>

How do you keep track of the time and agitation, and ensure that you agitate precisely the same every time? Can you pick a sheet from the top and insert it at the bottom in exactly the same way, at the same speed, every time?<br>

I don't know, it seems to me that tray developing is kind of empirical... :-S

<br><br>

1400 cc for 6 sheets seems enormous to me. It's over three times more that what I use now for a 120 film. Perhaps that's why Jobo say that their tanks are only suitable to rotating processors...

[bob_salomon]

The Combi Plan T is the only daylight inversion agitation 4x5 tank on the market. It does

not leak if it is in proper condition. If one has a leak they only have to contact us and we will

replace the part if it is defective. If it is broken we will sell you a replacement part.

[mark f]

I used combiplan. It works well, but, I removed the lid in the dark to do all the fluid changes simply because it is faster and more repeatable. With the Combiplan, practice with some scrap film to make sure you get the technique of loading down. It is not that hard, but it is easy to screw up if you aren't paying attention. I now use the BTZS tubes which have their own advantages and quirks.

[frankz]

There was a tank by Yankee, I believe, that would hold 8 4X5 sheets. It measured about 6X8, as I recall. Had one and liked it for B&W, but color would be a major PITA. Occasionally, they're for sale on FleaBay. The sheets went into a plastic slotted holder on their sides, the lid was replaced, and the lights went on to do the three step processing in the one tank with a water bath between steps (at least, that's how I did it). A quick trip to EBay produced this - http://cgi.ebay.com/3-YANKEE-4x5-AGITANKS-w-filmholders-inside_W0QQitemZ320199269291QQihZ011QQcategoryZ29993QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Check 'em out.

[tom_raymondson1]

Find an old Beseler or Unicolor 8x10 print drum. I use the Beseler, and while I can only do 2

4x5's at a time, the technique is flawless. You can manually rock it back and forth, but even

better is a motor base (again, I have a Beseler). This is soooo easy! (Some people manage to

get 4 sheets of film in, but I would be worried that they would slip and overlap.)

[georges_giralt]

Vlad,

The Combiplan use 1.200 liter of chemistry. So the 1.450 liter of the Jobo is not so huge !

Think about using HC110 at 1+63 (dil H) or Rodinal at 1+50 or even 1+100. This will not be a huge consumption of chemistry !

I use my 2521 by inversion and I can process 2x6 sheets because I own two tanks. This way, I use the HC110 soup up to its intended capacity !

Getting very good and consistent results is worth the extra chemistry you'll use. The Jobo are a delight and a joy to load, even without the Jobo loader. (practice with some ruined sheets in the light and you'll see what I mean)

And last but not least, if one day you plan to process your E6 at home, you'll already own the tank...

[dasblute]

I've used the combiplan, and the spigot is so small

it takes almost 30 sec to fill the tank. It also leaks

like a sieve when agitating.

 

For me, tray developing was a little tricky at first

but then fine, except the temp would rise almost 4deg

over 11 minutes [68-72!] [FP4+D76] because of my fingers

in the bath [high metabolism] :)

 

My current setup is an old besseler motor and unidrum tank,

(4) 4x5's at a time, no temp rise to speak of, a bit shorter

development because of the constant agitation, but absolutely

perfect negs every time. Unless, of course, I blew the exposure :)

 

I paid $60 for the motor and 2 tanks.

[dasblute]

btw - tom mentioned the possibility of the sheets slipping and

overlapping. I cut a piece of a flip flop up, 1/4" thick,

and about 1"x2" curved to fit the tank and with a 'V' in

it to fit the spines on the inside of the tank, it fits

tight against the tank and the sheets are held apart.

Learned about that in another thread on the unidrum tanks.

[eric rose]

Did anyone mention hangers? I use hangers in some plastic tubs I got from a dollar store. Works for up to 8 sheets. Since I use PyroCat-HD as my developer I don't worry about cost as it's really cheap. My tub hold 1300ml's of chemistry, so that's 13ml's of both A and B solutions.

[bob_salomon]

"It also leaks like a sieve when agitating."

 

No it doesn't. If yours does you have either a defective part where it is leaking - we send

out free replacement parts for defectives.

 

Or you are missing the washers for the Light Tight Hose Connectors (this can happen if

someone just orders the connectors themselves rather then a complete assembly.

 

Or your tank has been damaged by improper handling (dropping for instance).

 

A properly used Combi-Plan tank does not leak, at all!

 

As for the filling time - are you following the directions and giving the top Light Tight

Hose Connector a slight twist to open the air path?

 

Since the filling and emptying times are the same the timing is started when you begin to

fill the tank and ends when the chemistry stops draining out.

 

The Combi-Plan has always been known as a superior method for processing and

washing film in normal room light and is one of the very few totally daylight tanks (once

film is loaded) where all steps after loading can be done in any type of indoor lighting -

no darkroom needed. Only a changing bag to load the film. And the included loading

guide simplifies that!

 

The Combi-Plan has been proven in over a half century of availability - first as the Krause

tank (the inventor's name), then as the Gepe and finally as the HP Combi-Plan.

 

Again - if you are having a problem with your tank get it to us. We will make sure that it

no longer leaks when it is returned to you - even if it had been mishandled!

[spodzone]

Don't forget the <a href="http://pig.sty.nu/wiqi/paterson_orbital.html">Paterson Orbital Processor</a>, as long as you get all 4 red pins for the blighter.

[john_shriver]

I've been very happy with the Nikor tank. Be prepared to pay $150 or more on eBay. I fill it through the top, and have not had any streaks from doing so. It is not at all hard to put the film in. It will take an incredible variety of sheet film sizes, including 9x12, and even 3A (3-1/4" by 5-1/2"). You DO have to adjust the size accurately.

 

It does use a lot of chemistry, I use HC-110 in it. (My preferred Ilford Ilfotec DD-X would be prohibitively expensive in it.)

 

I think you could buy new a Jobo 2521 tank and 2509 4x5 reel for less than the Nikor. I think it uses more chemistry as an inversion tank, and only holds 6 sheets.

[jimsimmons]

I can't believe nobody mentioned this solution: I've got the Jobo 3006 Expert Drum, and the little $20 set of rollers that Jobo makes for rolling it on. The drum holds 6 sheets of 4x5 or 5x7 film, and it only needs 240ml of developer for the 6 sheets of 4x5. It actually needs even less, but I use dilute developer, so it takes that much to get enough stock solution before exhausting. You don't have to have an expensive Jobo processor. All it does is rotate the drum back and forth (I use my own muscle power - 30 seconds in one direction, 30 seconds in the other direction, repeat), and keep the water bath at a steady temperature (not as critical for B&W, but I use a plastic tub filled with 68 degree water). The drum is not cheap (got mine on ebay), but loading is a cinch and it fills and drains very quickly. And best of all - perfectly developed, not scratched negatives. I had found that getting even development with hanging racks required precised agitation methods, and I don't like standing in the dark for the 15 minutes it takes from some film/developer combinations.

[hitam_jantung]

The Jobo 2521 tank and reel is far superior to the Combiplan for inversion agitation, and of course, it's also great for rotary processing, which is impossible with the Combiplan. I think nobody mentioned the Expert drums because of the large volumes of solution required for inversion agitation. I've used the Expert drums for stand development with very dilute developers, but not for inversion processing.

[pje]

My 2 cents.

 

For 4x5 I use the Combi-Plan when processing B+W and Jobo 2521 for E-6 and C-41. I

never like the results I got from doing B+W with my CPP-2. Some day I'll pick up a 3010

Expert tank but just haven't gotten around to it. My Combi-Plan doesn't leak and I really have

no issues filling or draining it.

[richard baznik]

I've used the Combi-Plan tank for about three years after having used trays and then the justifiably-maligned Yankee tanks. The Combi does in fact leak (sorry, Bob, but I have no idea which component is causing the leak -- it's probably the seal around the lid) and the filling and draining times drive me crazy.

 

But fear not, I've found a way around my concerns with the Combi. I develop the film, by far the longest element of the process, in room light. Then I turn off the room light and use two extra utility tanks to do a dip-and-dunk routine in the dark with the loaded Combi frame for the stop bath and fixer, both relatively short times.

 

Even with these limitations, I find the Combi to be the best solution thus far. I suppose a Jobo system would be better, but I'm an amateur and I derive no income from my image-making, so I try to keep the outlay as low as I can.

[bob_salomon]

Richard,

 

If you have a top that is leaking then call us with your name and address in the USA and we

will send you a new one. If you are not in the USA contact the dealer you bought it from.

[georges_giralt]

Hi !

I own a CombiPlan (bought new) various Jobo tanks, a Paterson Orbital (bought for a song ar a garage sale) and small trays.

I was unable to get ONE sheet of film out of the Combiplan unscratched. Every time I revert the tank, some sheet get out of their position or are displaced by the flowing liquid. And this, whatever position I gave to the ratcheted upper clip.

A previous discussion with Mr Salomon (very helpful) indicated that I had to mount the carrier without the two blue washer I got with the tank. But to no avail. I keep the Combiplan to process the Slavish plates I have and stay with Jobo tanks for serious work. I mainly use the Jobo 2500 series, the 2521 by inversion, the 2551 on a Uniroller base because it takes 3 liters of chemistry to cover the two 2509 reels, and this is too much for me to move. The main advantage of the Jobo is the time taken to fill or empty the tank. Very short. And it can be shorter if you plug a funnel into the center core, this way you have the liquid coming in only at the center of the tank and the air at the outside of the tank.

I have to say that some fellow photographers use the Combiplan and get remarkable results with it. So it may suit you or it may not. For me, I won't exchange my Jobo for anything else !

I practice 5x7 since a few weeks and had to become familiar with tray processing. So I trained myself with outdated 4x5 Efke 25 film said to be easily scratched. The first test was a mess (scratched and uneven dev.) but the second run was far better. The third run was flawless.

Suffering from dermatitis, I avoid tray processing as much as I can so I'll stick to the Jobo for leak proof processing. (I wonder if the Nitrile gloves I use are chemically safe for my skin. Better safe than sorry)