Auction site and bad lens

[jeff glass]

I recently received a Rolleiflex 3.5 T, which I bought on eBay for a reasonable

price, allegedly in "very good" condition. However, on examination the taking

lens was covered with fine scratches, a couple of larger scratches, and a

veritable snow storm of fine pricks in the coating or something similar.

(Fungus?). The person I bought it from was good enough to accept a return and

refund my money.

 

My question is: is this simply the kind of condition I should expect from a 50-

year-old camera? A couple of photos of the lens are attached. I am not

familiar with this camera format and am unsure whether this particular lens

would have delivered acceptable results. I assumed not and asked for a refund

which the seller was kind enough to accept.

 

Any comments? I need to decide whether to continue to shop for TLR's on eBay

or look for alternatives elsewhere. Are there any other places where Rolleis

are available for reasonable prices?

 

(I know it is buyer beware on eBay but, ironically, both attached photos were

taken with a Nikon telephoto lens that I bought on eBay that was an excellent

condition as advertised.)

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff Glass<div></div>

[ronald_moravec1]

It is not age, it is poor care. There are ways to clean lenses and ways not to clean lenses. Similarly with storage.

 

You are lucky it was accepted for return.

 

There are no absolute standards as to what constitutes very good, or excellent, or mint. My computer does not even know where Ebay is.

[steve_dawson1]

In my view you should expect equipment to be supplied exactly as described however old it is. A lens described as in 'very good condition' should have no scratches and fungus. Scratches and other imperfections should be disclosed to potential buyers who can then make an informed choice. Unless an item is described as 'mint' you have to expect signs of normal usage but scratches and stuff on the surface of lenses are not normal use and the seller should point them out. That's my view anyway, I know a lot of eBay sellers disagree.

[d_purdy]

You should not settle for that condition. You don't have to expect lenses to be like that

because the camera is 50 years old.

 

Buying on ebay takes a lot of research. You can look at feedback information and find

what sort of things a person sells and info like if they have returned stuff or refunded

money. You have to look at pictures very carefully. Especialy with the Rollei TLR it is very

easy to exchange parts with other Rolleis and create cameras that look good for sale but

aren't put together right. Getting a refund is the saving grace and ebay and paypal will

both help you with that if it is a problem.

 

I have seen several cases of obvious fraud from sellers on ebay and even posted one on

photo.net for examle. That was not appreciated by photo.netters and I was told to mind

my own business. So I haven't done it again. But if you are considering buying an ebay

camera you can post it here for examination and several knowledgeable people will weigh

in on if it is a good buy or not. You might try that next time.

 

Dennis

[ken_wayne1]

Before everybody gets on an "Ebay is bad" kick I wanted to chime in about this. Ebay is an entity through which people sell. So any problem like this does not lie with Ebay it lies with people that make up eBay. There are millions and millions of users on eBay. There are millions and millions of sellers in all kinds of market places in the world and there are honest and reputable people in those market places and there are shady and fraudulent people in those market places.

 

It doesn't make eBay bad.

 

It is the responsibility of the buyer to make the decision as to whether or not any seller anywhere is legitimate. The key to success on eBay as a buyer is to ask questions....questions.....questions before buying. Ask before buying if the glass has any scratches or marks. Ask before buying if there is a return policy.

 

Get sellers to define their excellent or excellent+++.

 

I've seen many sellers describe their gear as excellent + and it looks like it's been dragged behind a car.

 

Another key is the feedback system. Buy from people with stellar feedbacks. Read the negatives that a seller has and see how he/she responds to problems. It's easy to be a good seller anywhere in life if no problems arise. The good sellers separate themselves from the bad ones by how they take care of the problem just like with any business.

 

So to pitch ebay as the worlds worst marketplace is neither fair nor accurate. There are many many wonderful people selling there who want to be honest and upright and so seek out those particular people. Ask for phone numbers just as if you were dealing with a camera store. If people wont give it then don't buy from them.

 

It always boils down to the buyer being responsible.

 

Sorry you had your problem and it is good that the seller accepted the return.

[rick_gerbehy1]

I had a 2.8 F Planar Rollei TLR that I used to shoot weddings and I really took care of it. I also had an older 3.5 user Rollei similar to the condition of the image posted. I used it casually. The lens and body were pretty beat up, but the images from both Rollei TLR's always seemed about the same. Run a test roll and see if the lens scratches are visible on your negatives or enlargements.

[bob_sunley]

Personally I think eblay is a great place, everyone now has worldwide access to old equipment and parts that was unheard of 10 years ago. Yes there are scams and all the other problems, but the majority of sellers are honest.

 

Yes you might get burned once in a while, but overall it is way better than only having the local garage sales, pawn and secondhand shops as a source, and people got burnt there as well.

[JDMvW]

People who are lucky enough to live in NYC or London can go out and window shop for old cameras. Those of us who live in less favored places find eBay and its like to be an incredible resource. Just for one example, I got a lovely P6 mount 180mm Sonnar from the Ukraine, and the adapter to put it on my EOS camera from Shanghai. I've bought a lot of stuff on eBay and have had better luck than at yard sales at home.

[hakon_soreide]

I've made many good purchases on eBay - and I usually can tell right away if a seller is to be trusted or not. On one occasion I got an item that was not in the condition it was purported to be, but I bought it with a bit of repair and cleaning in mind anyhow, so I just thought it was fun that I had something to do in those long winter evenings. Disassembling and cleaning lenses, removing old baffle material and replacing it, and reattaching the leatherette where it had started flaking is great fun, and as far as 30 year old cameras go, no surprise that it was needed.<p> The glass of the lenses I got was in pristine order, though - not the sign of a scratch anywhere, and I cleaned off the little bit of fungus that had formed on them.

[inspiration point studio]

A rating of "Very Good" is very low on the condition scale. You'll see descriptions like Mint, Like New, Excellent, and Perfect, along with the additional +/- appendices. When you just see a condition of good or very good, it's time to ask questions.

[SCL]

As a buyer and seller of gear on Ebay, I try to be conservative in my listings and disclose everything. Not everybody does, nor does everybody have a good perspective of what is expected for a given description. I tell people who inquire about purchasing on Ebay...ask all the questions you would ask if you were examining a camera in a store...don't accept generalities. Demand to see good, clear pictures and some sort of reasonable refund policy (unless an item is being sold "as is" with detailed information on condition, operability, servicing, etc). Compare sellers' descriptions with KEH.

[a._t._burke]

Eesponding to:

 

"Unless an item is described as 'mint' you have to expect signs of normal usage but scratches and stuff on the surface of lenses are not normal use and the seller should point them out. That's my view anyway, I know a lot of eBay sellers disagree."

 

Sellers on eBay are just like used car dealers. Some are truthful, some are not. It is like when you see the car advertised as "mint" and only driven by a little old lady on Sundays. Ya' gotta be suspicious when the insides looks like a bum lived in it and you find a hype kit under the seat. The description was purposely untrue and meant to be misleading even (or maybe especially) if the seller disagrees.

[john_elder1]

You can get a very good Rollei TLR with great glass if you follow the advice above. In 2000 I bought a 3.5E that came in the original box with the original receipt, strap, and caps. Camera was mint. I really don't know if it was ever used at all. 500 bucks

[jeff glass]

Interesting discussion and thanks for the advice. I am now just looking at Rolleicords at a

dealer. A bit more than the big ebay "bargains" but more reliable, with warranty etc. I

think I'll be saving ebay for special situations or items that are not over 40 years old.

[jeff glass]

By the way the sample image above simply does not do justice to the sorry state this lens

was in. I can't believe a lens with that much "fuzz" could produce sharpness and contrast

up to its potential.

[sumo_kun]

I personally like the bay. You just have to be a bit careful and not expect the item to be as pretty as it looks in the pictures. I have many bargains from that place and no doubt I will get many more. Recently I have gotten 2 Rolleiflexes. A 2.8C Planar and 2.8A Tessar. The C was really in beautiful condition. Works fine and takes sharp and contrasty photos. I just had to go over it with a bit of alcohol and a cloth and its nice and usable. Add to the fact that it was in meters scale and it was irresistable for me. The A was very scruffy cosmetically but it looked pretty good in the pictures. Cleaning did no good and the lenses were very slightly scratched and had haze and fungus. The shutter was very slow and generally it is not usable. But I am pleased with it because I know that once I give it a CLA, it will take beautiful pictures again. Plus this one was also in meters scale! This is the first A I have seen in meters. I hate feet. Can't understand why people continue to use it. Anyway, the price of both with cases and caps and the C even had a flash and strap, was not even $800. Give both a CLA and they would still be acceptable price-wise and would work for years to come.

So, the bay is a good place to get stuff if you know what you are doing and are realistic about the condition. There are plenty of good Rolleis out there so just be patient.

[mervyn_wilmington]

I've bought 500 items on Ebay, a fair number being photographic. Perhaps it is inevitable that some problems will be encountered. However, in proportionate terms I've had more problems with photographic items than my other areas of interest.

 

I've always received my money back, but it is still a nuisance. On one occasion a Bronica rotary finder had very obvious internal damage:on another a polariser described as circular was linear: on another a Minolta enlarger lens turned-out to be a Durst! Lest anyone should think I should have spotted the last, it was shown inside its bubble which was Minolta, as was the box.

 

I don't think those who run Ebay are sufficiently demanding about how items are described. Another area of concern - certainly in the UK - is more and more sellers "requiring" buyers to leave feedback before they do. There should be only one criterion for a seller leaving feedback: did the buyer pay promptly?

 

Mervyn

[runkel]

As a potential buyer, you always have the ability to ask the seller questions. I almost always do so in order to catch problems before I bid or get the seller on record saying there are none.<p>

 

A typical inquiry might go something like this:

 

<blockquote>I am interested in this item and would some further information/confirmation about the condition. If possible, can you get back to me on by [DAY] so I can make a decision then about bidding or Buy It Now? Thanks.<p>

 

1. What is the lens serial number?<p>

 

2. Glass: Can you confirm that you see no scratches / cleaning marks on the glass or coating of the front or back elements? Is the glass clear without haze, fogging or fungus (a few bubbles in the glass are normal)? Is there any visible separation of lens elements?</blockquote>

[bill_caulfeild_browne]

I'm with those who have had good experiences. I have bought a 1961 Rollei 2.8 F described

as mint - it was virtually unused, like right out of the showroom. I have bought several top-

end medium format lenses and they have all been great buys too.

 

Good sellers give the info Matthew refers to when they first list the lens.

 

Bill

[pete_kiefer]

I've had many good buys from eBay. I just acquired a 6003 Professional that seemed never to have been used and sold as "excellent." Check the reputation on the feedback. A couple of negatives are ok if they are for minor stuff but never accept anything from a bigtime lier and jerk.