K10D's maximum operating temperatures?

[andrew_ng7]

What is the maximum operating temperatures allowed or tolerated by the K10D?

 

I want to do some winter shooting but am worried about the extreme cold weather

affecting my camera. I have read of other DSLR's having problems in the cold and

want to know what is okay.

[mountainvisions]

I'll let you know this winter, maybe even this weekend. I expect to use it down to -20F...I hope it works, as it's out of warranty in about 4 weeks!!!!!

 

For what it's worth, my digital compacts all worked down to those temps. A Canon G3 and a Kodak 7440. They've seen the worst weather the Northeast can throw at them and kept ticking. I gave my sister the 7440 and it still works 2 years later. The G3 died on a warm day while whitewater canoeing...we went for a swim and the boat got pinned inverted on a boulder, the dry bag could have been sealed a bit better as it just barely leaked after 10 minutes of submersion in class III rapids.

[personalphotos]

I don't know if Pentax ever published that info but I did a little test with one of mine the other day to see how it could perform. I figured I'd better do this while it was still under warranty. Locked it and the grip with a lens and 2 batteries in the trunk of the car overnight.

The temp got down to -15C. After 10 hours there I got up in the morning and it worked without flaw. Took about 100 shots that morning. Then took it inside and allowed it to warm up for a couple of hours (I'd recommend you seal it in a bag before going inside to limit condensation). Have since shot another 150 frames on those batteries without a recharge.

 

Not scientific but now I feel confident in some fairly low temperatures.

[andrew_ng7]

Thanks Justin. I'll await your testing. I too have used my Canon SD400 and Nikon Coolpix 4300 in sub zero weather and both still work flawlessly.

 

Peter, you bring up a good point about avoiding condensation. I do let my guitars and other instruments acclimatise properly but rarely do I even think about it with my cameras. Any other suggestions?

 

I am now a little less worried about driving up north for a day of shooting during my winter vacation. Thanks guys.

[michaelc]

Here in Saskatoon it goes down to -40C. I just bought a K10D and I hope I can get out there and take some pictures of horrow frost. Don't want to ruin the camera thought. What about condensation in the viewfinder etc. If you take it outside in the cold, should you let it sit for about an hours or so the camera cools down and avoids condensation? Just my thoughts and questions.

[andrew_ng7]

condensation is more so for the other way. being so cold out it tends to be fairly dry outside. But it can't hurt to let the camera sit for a bit before shooting outside.

 

taking a cold camera into a warm environment will see condensation as the warm air will hold and have more moisture.

 

please correct me if I'm wrong. I know my reasoning isn't as technical as it could be.

[personalphotos]

Michael, I dunno about -40. I used my LX in temps like that in Labrador City but that camera was designed to do anything. That might be worth a call to Pentax Canada. I'd assume it would work and be fine but avoid hard knocks and so on as the plastic parts will get very brittle. I don't think it needs to acclimatize to the cold but what I'd recommend ( I did this is Lab city) was wear a large oversized vest, over your jacket. put the camera inside that area between shots to help keep the body from freezing up. Inside your jacket isn't great because of the body moisture which could condense on the body or lens and freeze in seconds at those temps.

 

Carry a spare set of batteries in your pocket and if you use a grip you might as well take the battery out of the body to avoid freezing it and causing a leak or destroying the battery.

 

When bringing it inside don't use it or remove the lens until it's good and warm. Keep it in the bag until you're sure it is warm enough. If condensation does get on the camera, remove the memory card and the battery. You don't want things to short out. All that being said, it's most likely overkill since the body is weather sealed. The LX was as well and I never went crazy protecting it and it saw a winter full of -40-60C without any issues.

[mountainvisions]

Interesting to note, -40F and -40C are identical. I remember when my brother first went to college (or as it's known north of the border, university, apparently college is for dummies or something) he was planning on going backpacking. The guy told him it usually doesn't get much colder than -40C, and he's thinking well that can't be that cold.

 

I was on the phone and I said, you do realize -40 is identical, he paused for a minute and said, nope but I know I'm not going now.

 

Gear might know the difference, but to me, without wind it stops getting colder about -10F (or -23C). Actually, i've ice climbed in glove liners and a base layer and light goretex shell on windless -23C days...in the sun it almost feels warm...but add just a 5mph breeze, or go from sun to shade, and it feels brutally cold.

 

 

Condensation:

 

I have a bit of experience with this. A tent is approximately 10F warmer than the outside, sometimes with melting snow for water (boiling water than adding snow to create drinking water) it might get 15F warmer. But it's also damp and humid, at least in the Northeastern US which unlike the western US or high altitudes like the Himalaya or Karakoram is not arid even in brutally cold temps.

 

You should place everything into a ziplock bag before entering a tent or a hut, then let it warm to the inside temperature before taking it out.

 

However, when going from warm to cold, provided no moisture entered the camera, seals, or motor, you can simply do so without any issues.

 

One thing I don't recommend is putting the camera inside your shell as a way to keep it warm...let the camera get cold and leave it that way. If you are having problems with batteries, keep a spare in your shell or parka chest pocket and rotate the batteries.

 

Unless water has entered the camera there is no harm to letting the camera get to air temp, but a warm camera might melt snow/ice or condensation and allow it to freeze in the crevices.

 

With film, static was an issue on rewind in cold dry temps. However, film rarely broke even in extreme temps. And a slow rewind usually negated static.

 

I've found that adding a self adhesive hand warmer to the battery pocket will make it as good as new. I even went so far as to tape it directly to the Kodak 7440 a few times but it always wanted to fall off.

 

Those Kodaks had small batteries, but they were Li-Ion and they never failed in the cold, I'm guessing the K10D, set to auto battery using two batteries should work fine in very cold temps.

 

I've used the Program Plus for multiday winter trips in what I consider very cold weather. -5F daytime highs and -25F overnight lows. This camera did fine, it's not sealed and uses button cell batteries. I've also on one trip (plus a few days of ice climbing) used the ist 35mm. It's not a solidly built camera, but it has a AA battery grip that allows for use of Lithium AA batteries, and it has done well.

 

I still think film is better suited for extreme cold, less battery issues for one, and fewer electronics to be damaged by wetness/condensation. That said, I'm using my digital SLR and compacts more and more in the mountains, and thus far, with a little care (much more than my film bodies) they've survived. When something does happen though replacing a $500-1000 body is going to be a tough pill to swallow.

[mountainvisions]

Andrew,

 

No need to let it sit when going from warm to cold. Only from cold to warm...and by sitting, you need to put it in a ziplock bag that prevents moisture from falling on it.

[zane1664879013]

From page 3 of the manual: "The temperature range for camera use is 0 C to 40 C (32 F to 104 F)." You may be able to squeeze out a few degrees beyond those limits.

 

Download the manual here: http://www.pentaximaging.com/files/product/K10D_Manual.pdf

[personalphotos]

Justin My idea from several years ago, using an outer vest to moderate the temperature was not to expose the camera body to direct body heat but just to help protect it from direct exposure to the cold. Between the jacket you normally wear and an outer vest the temp is still, below zero but just not as cold as the extremes were talking about. So if you were hiking for 30 minutes between shots the camera would be in between.

 

Of course you could put it in a backpack as well but then it's harder to get at in cold temps when there are gloves etc to fumble with.

 

But you're right that once it's cold, keep it cold. The frost from humidity and constant thawing/freezing cycles could do much more damage than the cold will.

[thebs]

In general, the rule-of-thumb is that you should not use electronics when the ambient inside of the unit is below 50 F, which is a good point where condensation increases in opportunity.

 

I don't know how much heat the CCD and microelectronics generation. But if you have the unit on and running already, and you step out into below 32 F, it should be okay within limits.

 

I'm wondering all this myself with my K100D, which is not even weather sealed. I'm here in New York along the Husdon and I'd like to take some pictures. But it's been below freezing already this December week (and even 10 F lower wind chill).

[mountainvisions]

Makes sense Peter. I didn't realize you were talking about a separate sort of vest, I was thinking you meant in your parker. I usually put it back in my chest holster or let it hang. However, it the weather is brutal (wind, sleet, snow, spindrift) it will do whatever needs to be done, including put it in my shell. Actually, often the Gu bottle I keep in my shell freezes solid which is bizare to me since I'm usually soaked with sweat, so I know I am warm enough to generate heat.

<P>

If your using a holster or pack, I recommend zipper pulls on everything.

<P>

Make them from 2-3mm cord (or old shoe laces) and make them long enough to grasp with mittens. It's still hard at times but definitely better than zippers alone.

<P>

I'd also recommend a thin glove liner under mittens. Mittens are so warm you can remove your hands with the liner and operate the camera for a few minutes even in windy conditions and then put them back in the mitten and be warm again in a few minutes.

<P>

Something with primaloft and a goretex shell is ideal.

<P>

I got my liners from mec.ca (actually the store in montreal) and mated them with a pair of OR goretex shells (the cheap ones). About $40 total and modular, in warm weather or when moving I'll often just use the shell and my glove liners.

<P>

Typical winter setup...the temp was -10F in this shot, but we'd just climbed a fairly steep slope with waist deep snow, definitely a little wet from sweat.

<BR>

<a title="Ridge to Mt Haystack with Mount Marcy in background" href=" ><img src="http://static.flickr.com/151/380120024_c4372f96ab_d.jpg" border="0"/></a>

[personalphotos]

This was today at -10C. I would have liked to avoid the old rose bushes in the front edge but as I was crossing a neighbours farm dog decided I shouldn't get any closer.

 

For days like this I have a similar jacket/pants. But underneath is a great Helly Hansen body suit that I used back in the 80's when working on offshore oil rigs. Best $400.00 I ever spent!

[michaelc]

I guess all I can say it better be a hell of a great photo oportunity to get me out in -40c. I don't think it would be one of those "lets just carry around a couple of lens and see what comes up". Although I have to say that I have seen some truly great pics on this site where I know the individual was out there in the "cold" to get his/her classic shot. I guess I am lucky that Polar Bears are not on my list of "have to be taken photos" lol.

[mountainvisions]

That jacket is 9 years old, and just ready for replacement. Had I spent $475 which was the retail price I'd say it would have been worth it. But at $150 it was a great bargain. The bibs didn't last as long, maybe 5 years. But at $100 I can't complain, only problem is finding bibs for less than $300 is like finding a needle in a haystack.

<P>

Great shot, the rose bushes do kill it but the lighting and sky in the background look great. I've got to find some snow this weekend, first winter hike in 13 mos.

<P>

Winter is the best time of the year, but getting great shots takes some effort.

<P>

One of my faves, and really just a lucky snap on a day when visibility never got better than this shot, had I known I'd have tried a bit harder.

<P>

In hindsight I should have dodged and burned a bit more. Maybe something to do at a later date now that I have a better understanding of that process on digital. I took this about 3-4 years ago.

 

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<a title="Storm above the Great Range from the Brothers." href=" ><img src="http://static.flickr.com/129/380120380_59651e8c44_d.jpg" border="0"/></a>

[kari v]

"From page 3 of the manual: "The temperature range for camera use is 0 C to 40 C (32 F to 104 F)." You may be able to squeeze out a few degrees beyond those limits."

 

0 C?

That would make a Really bad marketing leaflet for us living in the north. :D

 

All the cameras I've tried work fine at -20C or so, battery drain is considereble though. When it goes below that (with even the slightest wind) it's me who wants inside first. At -30C eyelashes start to freeze annoyingly. At -40C or more... erm... just make sure you don't drop your fingers off while operating the camera. ;)

[personalphotos]

Very good shot Justin, It's definitely a "keeper" with some very unusual light. I suspect we'll see many more good winter shots this season with so many K10D's out since introduction. Winter has come early this year in Eastern Canada. I may have to dig out the snowshoes this season as it's already 40-50 cms in the woods.

 

Thought I'd see what I could do to fix the front of that shot as I posted it straight out of the camera last night.

 

I should know this but how do you insert an image in a post instead of an attachment?

[rose_duclos]

Peter,

 

to do that, you need to shrink the picture to under 510 pxls wide.

[mountainvisions]

Peter,

 

Looks better without the rose bushes...nice work.

 

you need to post your images to the web, then simply drag and drop or insert the address in an image tag. I use Flock web browser (firefox based) which works seemlessly with Flickr, Photobucket, Blogspot (and most blogging sites), as well as YouTube and other sites. It also allows drag and drop photo insertion from my flickr or photobucket account.

 

Flickr offers a free account (200 images at once, plus 30MB of bandwidth per calendar month), since I know you had some worries about flickr, you can also use Photobucket. Photobucket is also free (and has paid hosting) but has a 1GB limit I believe.

 

Either way, makes posting images to various forums or blogging much easier since they don't need to be loaded with each use.