Digital photo storage backup-- what are you doing?

[chris_jordan3]

Hey guys,

 

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I've got 52 gigabytes of 4x5" drum scans on my Mac's hard drive, which represents eleven years of work; i couldn't even estimate the personal cost i've incurred to get the images, the scans, and do the Photoshop work for printing. Suffice it to say that hard drive is by FAR the most valuable possession in my world.

 

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My backup system is to have two additional 120 GB external hard drives, each of which contains a mirror image of the first. Every week or so I do a backup, so in case any of the three drives fails, i have the whole 52 gigabytes on the other two.

 

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But, all three drives are in the same place, so if there's a catastrophe such as an earthquake, all three could go at once. Plus,

i've heard that no hard drive can be expected to last more than a few years, so this definitely is not an "archival" solution.

 

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So, what are other people doing for archiving of large quantities of important image files? burning CD's is a possibility but very time consuming for 52 GB; i'm thinking about burning DVD's (it'd take about 12 of them to back up my whole library). have other people tried tape drives or other stuff? any suggestions would be appreciated,

 

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~cj (Seattle)

[armin_seeholzer]

Hi Chris

 

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I work with the 700MB CDs these days and from all important staff I

have 2 CDs but all my CDs are in the same house but not at the same

place.

 

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But I feel its save!

[doug_mcgoldrick2]

currently I back-up on c/d but I realize that they are not really

archival so I plan on moving all my digital info to the next new thing

and the next new thing and so on and so on. My work doesn't involve

much manipulation so I still consider my film to be my true archival

storage medium.

[donald_brewster]

I keep on separate external (and portable) 80gb firewire disk drive.

Keep one in a separate place and periodically update. I think you

got the general idea right. Life's too short for the DVD/CD solution.

[dk_thompson]

Check this out for alot of data....

 

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http://www.archive.org/about/storage.html#Storage

 

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fwiw, here's a link to the access

project we're getting drawn into...in the working guidelines to this,

you can find some more links.

 

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http://www.ncecho.org/

 

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Here's the working site for the Library of Congress's American Memory

site, there are tons of links to tech info here...

 

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http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/ftpfiles.html

 

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Not much of an answer I guess...we do use digital files in our access

records, I hesitate to say just how they're backed up...not my

field.But you'll find alot of info on large amounts of data &

preservation of digital files & images in these links...just about

every archive in this country is involved in a digitization project

now, and agencies generate electronic records that have to be

retained for set periods of time....maybe you'll find some good tips

in these links beyond what you may get as a typical answer....good

luck--p.s....you probably need to set up some off-site storage though.

Since I'm talking records & such (note: I am not an archivist):

 

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Opinions expressed in this message may not represent the policy of my

agency.

[dan n.]

Hi Chris...

 

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I try them all.. and I agree that's CD is time consuming (but it's

safe)... backup on another hard drive (external) is one solution...

recently I went for DLT tape... The first time you set it up it's will

be long...that's what they do in corporate envirenment... in my opinion

(for a small scale operation).. just bite the bullet, get a spindle of

good quality 700Mb CD and do it fréquently... DVD is OK too....

[edela_rothman]

Iomega now makes a 20GB portable drive called Peerless. It accepts

both 10GB and 20GB disks. You just buy more disks as your need grows.

You have a choice between a USB or FireWire connection.

 

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The Iomega drives are much faster than burning CDs/DVDs. The 10/20GB

disks are also pretty compact so you could easily store them

somewhere offsite.

 

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This is not a permanent solution. Then again, I'm not sure there is a

permanent "digital" solution yet. CDs/DVDs have a limited lifetime

and obsolesence is always a problem with any digital technology.

 

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http://www.iomega.com

[mike_mahoney]

I'd second the Iomega suggestion ... an innovative company with high

quality products, plus you'd need only three or four of the portable

drives.

 

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The CD/DVD solution is inexpensive, and probably not too time

consuming once you've brought things up to date. I'm using CD's now,

but I'll soon be looking at the portable drive solution.

[mike_mahoney]

I forgot to add this link from Luminous Landscape

 

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http://luminous-landscape.com/hd-back.htm

[henry_a]

I think what you're doing now is a good solution if you just add off-site storage for one copy. That would seem to cover all the bases. I've been using CDs for the past 6-7 years and I've had a couple of failures out of the 300 or so that I've written data on. Thats not a bad track record, but it is a problem if the photo or file you want is on the one that is corrupted! None of our digital storage media is permanent, your data will have to be migrated to newer media over the years to come, probably many times in your lifetime. Given the relatively low prices for hard drive storage and for your time spent archiving you are mostly doing the right thing now.

[jason_greenberg_motamedi]

Chris,

 

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I am a bit paranoid when it comes to back up, and use a quadruple back-up.

Most of my backup effort has do with my writings, so these are pretty small

files.

 

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1. I keep and identical copy of my hard-drive on an external drive (there are

quite a few programs which will scan all folders and update (I use

Synchronize! for mac, which works fine)

 

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2. i back up everything monthly onto CD (you would need DVD due to size)

using Retrospect. I keep these in a safe-deposit box at a bank.

 

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3. I have two cheap 80gb Firewire drives, which with Synchronize! I keep all

media files on. One stays at work, another is parked at home.

 

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4. I use an small FTP internet back-up for current work (80mb max)

 

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If you can borrow a friends tape drive, this may be the best bet. The good ones

are very expensive, and hopefully you would never need to use it. I wouldn't

bother with DVD, it would simply take too long. Perhaps your best bet is to buy

two or three 80gb firewire drives (NOT Maxstor) and keep them parked in

different places, work, home, friends place.

[alex_le_heux]

A caution about the Iomega solutions:

 

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Iomega makes nice stuff, but are often (always?) the only company

producing it. In my opinion this makes it completely useless as a

backup medium. Just like any other non-standard prorietary solution.

 

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Even if you go for standard solutions you might get into trouble:

Raise hands everyone who can still read 5.25" floppy disks :)

 

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Backing up to hard disks, external firewire or internal disks, is a

relatively cheap and quick solution. You need be careful though when

you upgrade your computer or operating system. You may not be able to

read them afterwards.

 

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The same goes for tapes of course: My unix machine can't read my

Retrospect MacOS 9 tapes, and I have no idea if tapes made on Windows

2000 can be read on Windows 2005 when it comes out.

 

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CDs are relatively safe because the ISO 9660 format is pretty

standard across different platforms. They are a bit slow and

cumbersome though. And *a lot* of work when finally the day comes

that CDs are obsolete and your data needs to be moved to a different

medium.

 

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DVDs I am not so sure of. Is it finally clear which of the many

formats of DVD-R, DVD-RW, etc will become *THE* standard? i haven't

paid attention, so I'm not sure.

 

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I try to steer clear from proprietary solutions like Iomega's, and

usually backup to CD and/or hard disks attached to different

computers in different locations. (isn't the internet great?)

[dmin-99]

Keep doing the hard drive backups just as you're doing now. Burn a cd

(a pair if it makes you feel better), make sure the cd is a gold or

platinum composition, and have a relative keep them (or store them in

a safe deposit box).

[struan_gray]

I used to be sanguine about my ability to back up everything with

minimal effort, but recent technology changes in the way hard

disks work mean that they are growing in capacity much faster

than Moore's law, and removable media cannot keep up.

 

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I still use DAT tape for my regular incremental backups, but

things are reaching the point it will be simpler to just buy a few

80 Gb firewire drives and pretend that they're tapes. Tape drives

are so expensive, and hard disks so cheap, that tapes really only

win if you want to make lots of copies of your data, or if you want

to send someone a disposable copy. For personal backup

neither is really necessary, although popping a tape in the post

to your parents/children/friends for off-site safety is a useful

option.

 

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I wouldn't recommend any magnetic storage for long term

archiving. I personally use DVD-RAM for my archive of last

resort. 5.2 Gb on a two-sided disk is convenient enough for a

one or two-time copy, and the technology is such that I can leave

a disk on the shelf for years without worrying about it

deteriorating. Pure magnetic storage, or CDRs are not reliable

enough for me. I used to use MO for my write-and-forget

backups, but these days that's a Fujitsu-only solution and the

drives are hard to find. DVD formats are not standardised yet,

but I needed something *now* and DVD-RAM can be read by

most of the other format drives.

 

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I also burn CDRs for distribution and working copies, since

burners and drives are ubiquitous now. But I've had too many

CDRs spontaneously turn unreadable (even the 'good' ones) to

trust them for my main archive.

 

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So I would say, if you want something to supplement your

external drives *now*, get a DVD format based on phase-change

media. If you can wait a while, see which format becomes the

norm and get that, but if not, bite the bullet and get something

before it's too late. It may seem expensive, but compared to

re-scanning all your negs and slides it's a drop in the bucket.

[alan_agardi1]

Chris -

 

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Forget any type of magnetic storage for archiving purposes - that

includes DLT, any Iomega drives - period. One small jolt of static

electricity can destroy it all in the blink of an eye.

 

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Second - make at least 2 copies of everything - and store one copy with

someone you truse (after 9/11 - even bank vaults aren't safe).

 

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Your only real choice, then, is optical - CD, DVD, and MO (magneto-

optical). In the MO drives, the M (magneto) refers to the encoding of

the data - not the storage. So, they're safe.

 

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The only issue will be how long do you want to spend doing the actual

copying. Personally, I might go with a combination of MO and DVD - and

keep a separate drive for each one in event of failure. The reason? CD

size is limited to 650-700 MB (some can double the capacity with

special hardware and software) - so it'll require a lot to store it

all.

 

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Make sure you make some sort of gallery/contact sheet for each disc you

burn - even if it's only an html browser disc. If you're on a Mac,

there are numerous options available - same as on windows - but the

html version may be the only one to withstand the test of time.

 

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Ciao.

[pete_caluori]

Greetings,

 

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IRT the comments by Alan, I'm not sure his statement about MO drives

are entirely accurate. I haven't kept up with the technology

recently, but some years ago a MO drive was one that used optical

sensors to accurately position the read/write head and magnetic

technology to record the data. IMHO, any device that uses magnetism

as its means to store data is far from archival.

 

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IRT to optical storage... Do we really have archival data on CD's or

DVD's? They're made from plastic. Is the plastic archival, or will

it break down over time?

 

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Regards, Pete

[lars ake vinberg]

Some of my CD-R's are failing after less than a year, probably a bad

brand. Do not trust any CD brand blindly. Find two tested brands,

make one copy on each brand. /Åke

[dk_thompson]

You all can probably find more info on lifespans of media on

CoOL--conservation online--if you look under electronic media, etc.

 

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http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/

 

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Back in '97, our museum sent us up to the Smithsonian to a conference

on managing photo collections & digital projects....the message was

pretty much, "don't do it....", but anyways, we got alot of good info

out of it, and I have a whole binder chock full of aging test papers

on magnetic media, cd's etc. I don't know if this link is in the CoOL

documents, but here's one from a study on magnetic tapes, optical

discs etc. From my notes at the time, the recomendation for the

lifespan of magnetic tape & video was 5-25 years in average

conditions...the higher numbers being for an archive/controlled

condtion. Apparently the plastic binder of the tape over time

eventually

delaminates...they called it "shedding" or something like that....I

remember them telling us stories of salvaging tapes having "sticky

tape syndrome" by heating them up in ovens to get the tape to play one

last time....they then copied it over onto new media & trashed the

original...

 

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http://www.nta.org/Publications/TechnicalReports/TechnologyAssessments

/TechAssessmentFinalReport1994/11_arch_stability.html

 

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If you don't want to dig through all that stuff, this page has some

good info on CD-R longevity & testing:

 

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http://www.mscience.com/faq.html

 

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last link...just for reading,

 

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http://www.longnow.org/10klibrary/TimeBitsDisc/

 

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Just about all these reports sum up that the worry is not in how long

the media will last, but in obsolesence...I know one of the large

institutions up there had just stopped a major project back in 96 or

so..the year before we were there. In fact my boss had toured this

project a couple of years earlier... it had become obsolete in about 4

years, despite alot of backup hardware & migrating across updated

platforms....they had been using a

large laser disc media that became obsolete very fast....the digital

images we create, well we view them as disposable almost, but they

live on a hard drive. The actual longterm file is film. I know from a

records point of view, the standard is still microfilm...in fact some

computer files are backed up on computer output

microfilm....polysulfide toned microfilm is rated at 500 years....and

that's in a typical archive setting...i.e. not in a cold storage

vault...

 

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If you live near a cold storage rental facility? Instead of a safe

deposit box, a bona-fide cold vault, like Hollywood Vaults or

someplace similar would probably be tailored to storage better...of

course, as an individual that might be sorta expensive....

 

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Opinions expressed in this message may not represent the

policy of my agency

[henry_a]

Have you considered sending your files to film using a film recorder? You could output to transparency or negative film as the image requires and then you'd have a compact, fairly long lasting record of your photos to store off-site. It might get expensive, but this could be another method to conserve your work. Another idea might be to print all of your collection -now and as you make new pictures- and store those prints for an additional archive.

 

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I still think that proper upkeep and migration to new media/formats is the simple/good/cheap answer to keeping your digital files. A new 500GB hard drive may only cost $100.00 three years from now and it surely would be easy to transfer your files to a new drive (or several drives) every few years. This would never have been a possibility when a 1GB drive cost $800.00 - but that has sure changed!

 

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Another wonder. Will the current format that you've saved the files in be viable for printing 10 years from now? 20 years from now? Will there be a machine that uses those puny little 300MB TIFFs to make great prints?

 

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hmmmmmmm� there's gonna be some work involved in keeping your archive current, useable and safe.

[alpshiker]

This has been a concern for me too. I have used CDs to store my images for many years. Then the DVD-Ram

came up and I have bought successively two generations of drives, but the media prices never came down to

what I consider a reasonable price for storage, and the drives are desperately slow.

 

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I am now considering DVD-R. I made a first approach to buy a Pioneer in january, but saw that a new version

was planned for april, so waited. Now the DVD-R A04 is available, but there is a new 4X write (current is 2X)

version planned for July... so I will wait. But I just heard of the new Blue laser standard and maybe it should be

worth the wait... ;-) no I think the DVD-R A05 will be a good choice for some time. Just think: writing 4,7 GB in

12 min. on a $7 media!

 

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The obsolescence of this media should not be imminent for this is a very popular standard, just like VHS. The

media are insensitive to magnetic fields and are said to last 100 years in good storage conditions, which

probably exceeds by far the readers availability anyway. I have now installed a 160 GB drive that I use for

backup, and just pray that no incident will occur before I am able to transfer all that stuff to DVD's!

[rob watts]

All of the suggestions above are good. Personally, I use CD's as well as DVD's. CD's are for each client and I use the DVD's to back up a week at a time. THEN, purchase an inexpensive fire safe at Lowe's or Home Depot. Store the disks in it for potential catastrophes.

 

I have also created an Excel spreadsheet that is categorized by the client name/job/DVD #/date to quickly locate the archived files!!!!

 

Works for my business!

[john_s._flannery]

Fire safes and storing in various locations in your house are a waste of time if you have the type fire that wiped me out a year ago this week. Arson investigator looking at the gas water heater tubing to try to push the burden of payment from State Farm Insurance ("there" mainly when payments are due-- have yet to see the individual who sold me numerous policies) to the heater manufacturer said nothing would have survived the 30 minute or so blaze that took 90,000 images, computer, every backup and all camera equipment, cds and insurance material and a liftime of antique collecting. Dog and I survived because we got out in 20 seconds, and melted metal and a few spots where water was poured on made it.

 

Save your work some place else as well as on your hard drive . Send copies to friends and rellys to keep for you, use every conceivable copy method.

 

Inshallah.

 

jsf

[quinton_de_bruin]

Hi Chris,

 

The thing about hard drives, external HDs, CDs or DVDs is that they are suseptable to natural desasters or loss, craches etc etc. I use online storage with a reputable company, the are a subsid. of a fortune500 co. All content is stored on twin servers and then back up all content daily on to data tapes and this is stored in a granite vault in the Rockys with the US government and other f500 company's docs etc. they take storage and photo archiving seriously. If you are taking about your most prized posession you may want to take a look. they offer an initial free service www.qvteam.myphotomax.com. Check it out! After using them I will look no further! Hope this helps